What’s next for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6?

[Krispy]

That's amusing if true, given how few takes longer than 29:59 there are in film!

You can google it and I think its primarily an EU law and the tax increase was like 5-12%. I know it's definitely a law and it existed. I'm not sure if it's still in effect though. That, I had tell me it got repealed a year ago. I use my atomos for continuous recordings, so it's not an issue I face.

 

[BakaBokeh]

The problems is 4K regular is line skipped, which is of lesser quality. Also 4K60 is kinda expected in this pricerange, and that overheats. I am not mad about 8K and 4K120 being specialty modes. But proper quality 4K30 and 4k60? Yeah, that'd actually be nice.

I'm actually fine with the line skipped 4K. If its a tradeoff for unlimited recording peace of mind, I'm using it. I'm coming from FHD so I have no complaints. Also, I believe 80% of people won't be able to tell the difference. 20% will claim to see a difference. And only 5% will actually see the difference.

4K60 for full frame never existed before, so I wouldn't feel so entitled to expect it. In fact, Canon still is the only one that can do it. All others introduce some crop.

 

[davidhfe]

That's amusing if true, given how few takes longer than 29:59 there are in film!

It was a camcorder tax, and I think it was the EU only. And I also am under the impression it's gone. It was a nice way for canon/sony to get some air cover on recording limits. Now it's just inertia. Canon should absolutely throw us a firmware update that removes the limit.

 

[bergstrom]

Seeing as how the first wave of shipments sailed without me onboard, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Leave an order outstanding for months? I'd go nuts. Patience is not a character trait I'm familiar with.

well if your R6 burns out and they bring out an R6ii , you will be kicking yourself.

 

[Deleted member 378221]

4K60 for full frame never existed before, so I wouldn't feel so entitled to expect it. In fact, Canon still is the only one that can do it. All others introduce some crop.

Again, "entitled"? Not helping with the antagonistic language.
Also I'm sorry, but have you missed the announcement of the A7S3? Also the 1DX Mark III can do it in 5.5k RAW or 4k DCI.

Clarification: Canon shooter for 11 years now. I'll not be switching to the new hottest trend from any manufacturer, I'm heavily invested in this system and I was hoping for less compromises this generation.
Again: R5 is preordered and should arrive soon and will be amazing or my photo work. Will it be amazing for my video work? Well, that's a resounding "we'll see".

 

[davidhfe]

See, and again valid criticism is brushed off as "how could you expect it to work like advertised, that's your fault".

Short round:
1) This is an argument pro Canon? I don't get it. It is not perfectly fine for video, and like it or not that's an important part of ILCs these days.
2) It's not "drama", calling it "complaining about Sophie's choice" however is quite the dramatization. Not helping teh discussion in any way. And not every body in this class has not a single video mode without caveats. Also no other camera takes two hours to recover fully after a 30 minute shoot in 4k.

Best hybrid body? Well, for photos: yes. For video: meh.

Look, If you're pissed, you're pissed [Edit: I'm pissed too!!] and who am I to tell anyone how they should feel. And it's not a pro-canon argument. I've got plenty of posts racked up over the last few days with the headline that Canon fucked up. "Canon promised me 8K and didn't deliver" is totally valid criticism. Full stop.

And "Canon doesn't offer anything like the A7SIII to sit along side my R5" is totally valid criticism of their lineup. The R6, priced $1000 less than the A7SIII ain't it. And DANG I wish they had an R5c with active cooling or a 5K sensor for oversampled goodness. Oh how sweet that'd be. Send all that energy into the universe for Canon to deliver it.

But, and here's the perspective that we've all let fly totally out the window, "Canon didn't deliver on something that no other camera in this class* has" just falls flat.

I've caught flak over the years for people talking about the canon nerf hammer and "marketing said no $feature_x" for you when what they meant to say is "Canon's engineering team has not come close to what the competition offers". This is lightyears beyond that. Canon fixed their DR and read noise problems. Canon fixed their sensor read problems (I have read that the R5 has a faster readout than the A7SIII when reading similar numbers of pixels, though at a DR cost). They fixed the COMICAL processing limitations that gave the 5D4 it's MJPEG codec. It FINALLY goes past Nikon and Sony.

It's a home run and I'm sorry that we were all looking for a grand slam

Edit: Forgot to write the footnote for the asterisk. *Class = high resolution (we'll say 36 since that's where the A7RI landed) ILC with pro weather sealing. SH1 and A7S are priced near the R5, but they're not the same class of camera.

 

[BakaBokeh]

Again, "entitled"? Not helping with the antagonistic language.
Also I'm sorry, but have you missed the announcement of the A7S3? Also the 1DX Mark III can do it in 5.5k RAW or 4k DCI.

Clarification: Canon shooter for 11 years now. I'll not be switching to the new hottest trend from any manufacturer, I'm heavily invested in this system and I was hoping for less compromises this generation.
Again: R5 is preordered and should arrive soon and will be amazing or my photo work. Will it be amazing for my video work? Well, that's a resounding "we'll see".

Sorry you took that as antagonistic. But it's true. Uncropped full frame 4K60p never existed before the 1DXIII... so I don't know how we can just expect it to be included like it's some normal feature. Maybe I shouldn't use the word "entitled" because some are easily triggered?

 

[Bert63]

well if your R6 burns out and they bring out an R6ii , you will be kicking yourself.

I don't own an R6 I preordered an R5.

I won't suffer. It was a fun buy - not a must have. My 5D4, EOS-R and 7D2 will keep me happy regardless.

 

[Deleted member 378221]

Look, If you're pissed, you're pissed and who am I to tell anyone how they should feel. And it's not a pro-canon argument. I've got plenty of posts racked up over the last few days with the headline that Canon fucked up. "Canon promised me 8K and didn't deliver" is totally valid criticism. Full stop.

I am not "pissed". I preordered the camera, I will use it for my photo work. Also again, my criticism is not "unlimited 8k". It's the continuous heat buildup even in non- or light use that will limit your regular recording times far more than on paper. It is completely possible to use the camera regularly and have "0 minutes" of 4K60 and waiting hours for it to recover.

And "Canon doesn't offer anything like the A7SIII to sit along side my R5" is totally valid criticism of their lineup. The R6, priced $1000 less than the A7SIII ain't it. And DANG I wish they had an R5c with active cooling or a 5K sensor for oversampled goodness. Oh how sweet that'd be. Send all that energy into the universe for Canon to deliver it.

Yeah, again not my criticism.

But, and here's the perspective that we've all let fly totally out the window. "Canon didn't deliver on something that no other camera in this class* has" just falls flat.

Well, it's a new camera that was advertised with groundbreaking video features. So I'm sorry if some people expected, you know, progress in technology.

 

[Czardoom]

Here's what Canon should do. Inside every box of R5 and R6, they should include this letter:

Dear Canon customer. Thank you for your purchase. We hope the experience using this new camera is not spoiled by those that are flooding social media and internet forums with the news of our cameras overheating under certain video conditions. Considering heating issues have limited FF cameras when using video for many years, this is somewhat of a surprise to us, but - not really! Social media and internet sites have become dominated by those who have a limited ability to understand anything about cameras , and physics, and, well, just about anything. We thought it would be a good idea to actually document the limitations - unlike other brands that also have the same issues, but don't bother telling the consumer about them. Big mistake there! Better to be deceitful than up front with the information. We urge all of those users who are disappointed with the video capabilities of this camera, to please pass it along to someone who appreciates our latest advances, and understands that this is primarily a still oriented camera - as all of our 5 series and 6 series cameras have always been. Therefore size, weight, weather sealing and build quality take precedence.

We realize that most of the complainers simply want the capabilities of a pro level video camera to be offered for a much lower price in a stills oriented camera. We regret that the selfishness of these users is causing distress in others. For this we apologize. You can be sure that we will no longer acknowledge that any heating limitations exist in our cameras moving forward.

 

[Go Wild]

Sidenote: Most of my jobs require two bodies at least.

Right now the limitations with overheating on R5 and R6 are too much for me and what I do. I do agree they are great cameras spec wise, but the overheating time just doesn't work for me.

And sidenote from me: I work with one Sony Fs5 mkII, one Sony A7r3, one Canon 1dx mkII and one Canon EOS R!

EOS R5 will allow me to "at least" sell the 1dxmkII and the Sony A7r3. And that´s something....To replace a more oriented high res camera and a more oriented speed camera in only one body!

I tottaly agree with your evaluation! And that´s all about it, if the camera works or not for us! That´s the decision we just need to take! Unfortunately for the internet and most of Youtube reviewers it must be a winner and seems like it is mandatory that we have the best camera! That thing never going to happen! What is perfect for me simply doesn´t work for you and the beauty of this times is that we have so many amazing options!!

Cheers

 

[davidhfe]

Sorry you took that as antagonistic. But it's true. Uncropped full frame 4K60p never existed before the 1DXIII... so I don't know how we can just expect it to be included like it's some normal feature. Maybe I shouldn't use the word "entitled" because some are easily triggered?

And the 1DX3 is basically powered by a beast of a battery, has like 2-3x the volume, is only 20mp. And, uh, doesn't have autofocus at 60fps? It's a bit of an odd duck. (A very well armored odd duck)

 

[davidhfe]

Here's what Canon should do. Inside every box of R5 and R6, they should include this letter:

Dear Canon customer. Thank you for your purchase. We hope the experience using this new camera is not spoiled by those that are flooding social media and internet forums with the news of our cameras overheating under certain video conditions. Considering heating issues have limited FF cameras when using video for many years, this is somewhat of a surprise to us, but - not really! Social media and internet sites have become dominated by those who have a limited ability to understand anything about cameras , and physics, and, well, just about anything. We thought it would be a good idea to actually document the limitations - unlike other brands that also have the same issues, but don't bother telling the consumer about them. Big mistake there! Better to be deceitful than up front with the information. We urge all of those users who are disappointed with the video capabilities of this camera, to please pass it along to someone who appreciates our latest advances, and understands that this is primarily a still oriented camera - as all of our 5 series and 6 series cameras have always been. Therefore size, weight, weather sealing and build quality take precedence.

We realize that most of the complainers simply want the capabilities of a pro level video camera to be offered for a much lower price in a stills oriented camera. We regret that the selfishness of these users is causing distress in others. For this we apologize. You can be sure that we will no longer acknowledge that any heating limitations exist in our cameras moving forward.

Be careful, YouTube will describe that letter as "kindling"

Better to provide an electronic copy (preferably on a 512 gig CFe card. That would definitely take some sting out)

 

[bergstrom]

I don't own an R6 I preordered an R5.

I won't suffer. It was a fun buy - not a must have. My 5D4, EOS-R and 7D2 will keep me happy regardless.

oops well it applies to R5 as well, if they don't JUST bring out firmware but might either do a recall of some kind and do some physical fix to them, but who knows , time will tell.

 

[Bert63]

oops well it applies to R5 as well, if they don't JUST bring out firmware but might either do a recall of some kind and do some physical fix to them, but who knows , time will tell.

For me it's more of a sit and wait deal - no thanks. When it comes out and is able to be ordered and received then I'll go then.

I missed the first wave so now have plenty of time to read more reviews and see real sample images.

 

[jayphotoworks]

Well reasoned. I agree there will not be a problem for most users and use cases. The marketing should perhaps have been more cautious.

Not sure Canon, busy making great cameras, was prepared for the negative whiny world of youtube parasite do nothing reviewers and their dim-witted followers who eat up their conflict laden drivel. I am continually surprised at how low some of these reviewers will stoop, how large their egos, how gullible their audience is, and how they and their followers do almost everything on irrational emotion instead of thinking. It is truly sad that some of the most careless, abrasive, immature and just gross personalities are listened to by so many.

Canon probably thought the use case for high frame rate and high bit rate 4K modes and 8K would never be thought by anyone to be used for long form shooting. Enter a bunch of griping brand elitists and amateurs with unrealistic expectations and now there is an alleged fatal flaw in the product. Consumers have become dumb and spoiled, and the voice of un-reason is pandered to in the modern world, rather than ignored or refuted. It really is the most complex problem businesses face- how to please an increasingly whiny user base.

I'd like to make a counter-argument on this. While I mainly agree that "conflict laden drivel" seems to drive people nowadays, probably a byproduct of needing ad revenue, the result of such fervent personalities on Youtube and their commonly abrasive followers have allowed certain product flaws to be exposed and unfortunately sensationalized quite readily. Good and bad perspectives are expressed, and picked apart by people with all sorts of experiences and what not either against or for...

This is good in some ways. In itself, This has allowed a greater understanding of any product's pain points well ahead of the time I need to reach for my credit card. This saves me money because there is now an abundant amount of data to review. After watching a few A7S3 reviews that seem to not overheat and now 1 or 2 data points that say otherwise which many might consider an outlier, it may actually signal a product flaw not previously uncovered or maybe simply a defective unit or inconsistent testing methodology. If it's the latter, I may exclude that data point and any future data points from that source..

At the end of the day, the onus is on myself to pick which personalities, review sites, etc. affect my buying decisions amid the noise. I can't wish the noise away and if I want to leverage the wealth of data, I have to take out my earplugs.. DPR has long been criticized for being anti-Canon, and perhaps they have been, but their approach has generated plenty of revenue one way or another and since we can't just "erase" them out of existence, like DXO, the only thing we can do is convince others perhaps to take a more weighted approach instead of just taking the opinion of 1 or 2 data points or sensationalizing headlines. Expressing that DPR is bad, and Youtubers and followers are bad, etc. is simply too black and white. I feel your comment is more emotionally driven than what the reality is and the reality is much more nuanced than saying businesses have to cater to an increasingly whiny user base.

Also, as time passes, trends, fashion and tastes all change. People that were younger perhaps like us are now older, have more income, but are increasing less adaptable to change in society as we age, like pretty much every generation that precedes it. We may not like the way society is going represented in some micro-communities like this, etc. but since we have little power to influence the many, perhaps we would be better to see how to leverage what is in front of us.

 

[BakaBokeh]

And the 1DX3 is basically powered by a beast of a battery, has like 2-3x the volume, is only 20mp. And, uh, doesn't have autofocus at 60fps? It's a bit of an odd duck. (A very well armored odd duck)

Oh you're right, forgot about the AF.

 

[unfocused]

I don't know if this video has been posted before, but it looks like a pretty good and unbiased assessment, which does show that this is a pretty major issue.


Sharing it because this guy seems to be a serious filmmaker and if you go back to the start and watch the video he was working on, it's pretty obvious he was not shooting excessively long takes, but was still having significant problems.

I think stills people, like myself, need to look at this and take it into consideration before dismissing the concerns.

 

[privatebydesign]

I don't know if this video has been posted before, but it looks like a pretty good and unbiased assessment, which does show that this is a pretty major issue.


Sharing it because this guy seems to be a serious filmmaker and if you go back to the start and watch the video he was working on, it's pretty obvious he was not shooting excessively long takes, but was still having significant problems.

I think stills people, like myself, need to look at this and take it into consideration before dismissing the concerns.

That video has been shared a lot, he also shoots very long form so is not, I suspect, Canon's intended user or market.

 

[davidhfe]

Well, it's a new camera that was advertised with groundbreaking video features. So I'm sorry if some people expected, you know, progress in technology.

OK, so I get this. (And even if you're not pissed, I actually am). But here's really the only thing I'm trying to combat—sort of across the board. This is a case of expectations being set improperly. Not a case of the camera having unworkable video limits. Verbatim from twitter:

Sony A7III for cheaper hybrid, Canon R6 for more expensive slightly more impressive hybrid, Sony a7s III for purely video (& fine for social pics etc), Canon R5 for photo (& fine for bursts of video)

So I see something like "not perfectly fine for video" and that's just a complicated statement. To me, and I'd guess a lot of people, it is perfectly fine for video. It'll shoot all the 4K you ever need it to shoot (well, up to 30min--sigh), and do it better than anything else with a 30+ mp sensor. But the narrative is like, "whoa you can't use the R5 for anything other than touch and go video." And you can. For any situation you'd feel comfortable using an R, a 5D4, an A7R4, a Z7, etc for. It's a hybrid ILC that punches at it weight class for video, with some interesting "sometimes" modes.

Apologies if you were feeling particularly called out here. I need to step away from this shit.