What’s next for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6?

cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
737
People are saying "I am a photographer, I dont shoot video, I dont care”. Well I am truly happy for the ”I dont shoot video" photographers. Thank you for giving me an opening.

I am a photographer as well, but video makes me money, and it helps me to land photography jobs that others dont. The more things I can offer a client on a photo shoot the better.

Where I am from, alot of the professionals are older, they refuse to change and evolve, and complain that younger inexperienced guys are undercutting them. Nope we are just offering more, and bringing additional value to a client.

When a client, hires me for a shoot, and I able send them some additional bts footage etc I am increasing my chances of getting a call back and also I am wetting their appetite for more than just photos. Maybe next time they engage me for more than just photography. All other things video related that I can offer to clients increases my value to a production and therefore increases my income.

The overheating issue with the R5 and the R6 is that other activities also decrease its time before overheating, I have seen reviewers saying that after shooting stills only, when they switched to video the R5 immediately gave them an overheating warning. So I can infer, that alot of the overheating times we are seeing are best case scenarios, and the cameras actually perform much worse in real life scenarios where they arent starting from a completely cool starting point.

If I am at an outdoor wedding and I am primarily shooting stills, and I switch to capture some B roll transitions etc, I dont want to be in a rushed and tense situation where the camera is immediately threatening to shut off. The fact that this risk exist in the R5 is a failure. Simple. If you are a photographer that doesnt shoot video or doesnt offer these services, thank you, please remain exactly the way you are!

The failure is you not understanding this is the MILC version of what would be the 5D5 as a DSLR. It is a weather sealed stills hybrid camera with limited video capability and those limitations have been disclosed before it could be purchased. No one has victimized you and yet you act like you have been cheated or are owed something by Canon. This camera is not a dedicated video camera for your 8K wedding footage (as if anyone wants that) at a stills camera price.

You have unrealistic, emotional expectations and a wholly abrasive and illogical way of presenting your opinions; none of which are backed by detailed reasoning. In not one post have you demonstrated that you can understand the technical challenge of a large MP sensor readout at high bit rate. You have never acknowledged the challenges and tradeoffs required to bring a product to market. You just keep repeating what amounts to a tantrum that you did not get offered the dream camera you imagine at the price you want to pay. Buying past products of a company is never a guarantee that around the corner they will produce exactly what you want or think you need- they do not exist just for you. You have not demonstrated that you are in any way capable of making the proper tool selection for your business, or else you would not be here whining over and over and over and over about camera you don't own and have never held! Why are you still here and not out shooting with your 12MP Sony? You aren't holding any company to the fire or trying to get a better product, you are just whining. Why don't you email Canon your angst laden monologues if you want a better product and save the rest of us the headache of your non-constructive rants.
 

Max C

Canon 60D
Feb 9, 2020
113
130
thank you and yes I understand your concerns. I would still flag them to Canon

Using an atomos with the canons solves the problem i thought ?

Sony can’t do internal I thought for their higher bit rate modes either ?

so if you are factoring in an atomos then your r5/r6 is still viable perhaps? Not that I’m spending your money!

Yes the atomos will extend record time, but spending a premium for a body in relation to its class competitors, then still have to buy an atomos for it just to avoid overheating. May as well buy the Z6 and Atomos. I do realize that I am in a unique position as I am completely overhauling my gear and not tied to brand loyalty because of legacy equip in my possession.

Z6 + Atomos and accessories = $2600
R6 Body only $2500

A7sIII = $3500
A7rII = $1000
R5 Body only $3900
 

cdcooker

I'm New Here
Jun 28, 2013
13
3
R5 may break the record to be the soonest model to be available in Canon refurbished store after the official launch. Once returned, they have to go to the refurbished route.
 

cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
737
Its flawed, lol why else would people even entertain the fact that there maybe a recall or firmware updates to address issues. A company actually developed a "fan" to attach to the bloody thing... A blinking external fan!!! People are posting about mount adapters that can provide cooling... Its a joke, and people like you who dont hold a company to the fire for delivering a severely hampered product is why they can continually disappoint, because of you. When there are changes to the product and updates, it wont be because of you, it will be because of all the people you complain about. You are welcome.

I am welcome? Just wow....

I don't need changes to the product and while you are still here bitterly complaining, I will be out shooting successfully with it by this weekend. I don't try to take stills with my Sony NXCAM and I don't try to take documentary video with my 5D4 very often. You won;t see me trying to shoot high data rates for long times with the R5.

I don't play brand elitist and I do hold companies accountable when necessary. However, If I have a complaint about a product, I express it with logic and care in a constructive fashion rather than getting emotional and calling it a joke or bashing the brand. I also usually utilize forums for constructive discussion with users, and go directly to a company if I have a concern, rather than expecting them to read my mind as I gripe into the aether.

I have sufficient intellect and self awareness to select a product that suits my needs, can apply each tool I buy properly in the field, and have the awareness that no one owes me anything further after I make a purchase.

I don't make camera purchase decisions with ego or rabid emotion, and I learn to use each tool within its limitations. I don't take products I buy (or could buy) personally. Life is too short, and success comes from using what you have and adapting to what is, not lamenting what should be.

Let me be clear, you are not helping anyone get a better product here, not even yourself.
 

adigoks

EOS 750D
Jul 12, 2020
64
75
here is what come to my mind.
it maybe not whats next for R5 or R6, but rather whats next for canon in general.
- C700 Full Frame , 8K up to 60p with RF mount
- R1 , 1 series camera with 24-32mp sensor
 

Go Wild

EOS RP
Dec 8, 2014
290
354
Yes the atomos will extend record time, but spending a premium for a body in relation to its class competitors, then still have to buy an atomos for it just to avoid overheating. May as well buy the Z6 and Atomos. I do realize that I am in a unique position as I am completely overhauling my gear and not tied to brand loyalty because of legacy equip in my possession.

Z6 + Atomos and accessories = $2600
R6 Body only $2500

A7sIII = $3500
A7rII = $1000
R5 Body only $3900

Z6....really? A7R2...REALLY? And you are comparing the Z6 or the A7r2 to the R5? Yeah Nikon was smart, they saw they were going nowhere in video and they just opened the doors to Atomos and external record making a bad camera for video suddenly look appealing. But you need to record almost 100% in MF because you can´t rely on AF of Nikon for video. You have a way worse 4k. You have way less photo capabilities....overall the Z6 is way worse than the R5. I mean....you just can´t compare!!! Not to talk about the Sony A7r2. I have a Sony A7r3 and there are likes and dislikes about the camera...About video it can produce very good video. But...It´s just not even near to this R5. I don´t know about the A7s3 but from what i´ve seen, it´s just as good or even a bit better than the EOS R5 for video. But it´s a videocentric camera, it must be! And it should be way better.

What is the problem of investing more 600$ in a external recording? Well I tell you this...Everyone, I mean....Everyone that is in video for real has an external recorder or at least an external monitor. So....What´s the big deal...And Ninja V is quite small and compact. If it solves your problems why not??

But if you think it´s too much money, then maybe the camera is out of your budget...Think like this....recording to an external record can save you a LOOTT of money in CFEXPRESS cards! SSD drives are way more cheaper than CFEXPRESS at this point. You can buy a 1TB SSD for about 200€ for 240€ you get a 128gb CFEXPRESS...

If you go buy the EOS R5 for video of course you have to make sure you can solve the potencial problems camera can have...And if using an external record solve a lot of problems.....Hell yeahh...!! :D Cheers
 

Krispy

EOS R3/R5/5DIV
Oct 21, 2019
40
40
Z6....really? A7R2...REALLY? And you are comparing the Z6 or the A7r2 to the R5? Yeah Nikon was smart, they saw they were going nowhere in video and they just opened the doors to Atomos and external record making a bad camera for video suddenly look appealing. But you need to record almost 100% in MF because you can´t rely on AF of Nikon for video. You have a way worse 4k. You have way less photo capabilities....overall the Z6 is way worse than the R5. I mean....you just can´t compare!!! Not to talk about the Sony A7r2. I have a Sony A7r3 and there are likes and dislikes about the camera...About video it can produce very good video. But...It´s just not even near to this R5. I don´t know about the A7s3 but from what i´ve seen, it´s just as good or even a bit better than the EOS R5 for video. But it´s a videocentric camera, it must be! And it should be way better.

What is the problem of investing more 600$ in a external recording? Well I tell you this...Everyone, I mean....Everyone that is in video for real has an external recorder or at least an external monitor. So....What´s the big deal...And Ninja V is quite small and compact. If it solves your problems why not??

But if you think it´s too much money, than maybe the camera is out of your budget...Think like this....recording to an external record can save you a LOOTT of money in CFEXPRESS cards! SSD drives are way more cheaper than CFEXPRESS at this point. You can buy a 1TB SSD for about 200€ for 240€ you get a 128gb CFEXPRESS...

If you go buy the EOS R5 for video of course you have to make sure you can solve the potencial problems camera can have...And if using an external record solve a lot of problems.....Hell yeahh...!! :D Cheers
Can confirm. Work in video. Have an Atomos Shogun in my personal kit and Ninja V at office.
 

Krispy

EOS R3/R5/5DIV
Oct 21, 2019
40
40
I also have the Shogun inferno i am just waiting for tomorrow to pair it with my R5. Share some infos on your setup
My R5 comes today but the cable is still getting shipped from bh. The one I bought didnt have 4k support and my old cables were micro hdmi and not the mini the r5 supports.
 

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
306
125
ok, stand corrected. Thanks for trying it.

so now you have a gpu which is as large? as the r5 with 2? fans and a tdp of around 280w which can do real-time 30p and by your timings do almost 60p (but not 120p nor 8k) No idea on the quality of your 30p vs r5.

pretty impressive what the r5 is doing in such a tiny space.

doesnt detract away from what people are saying about the overheating, just gives insight into the challenges and trade offs.

The 4K120 footage from the R5 plays and edits like butter for my setup. I dropped it straight into Premiere, applied a couple minor effects and didn't have to render for smooth playback. The export time was also about equal to the length of the video.

This is on a desktop with an i9, GTX 1080, and 64 gigs of ram. Even with After Effects opened, Audition, and Webex, it didn't use over 30 gigs of ram during playback. CPU utilization was high, the GPU was hardly used. The periodically kicks on and off, I do use liquid cooling. I don't think a laptop would be good for editing this type of footage yet, and it seems like the bottle neck is the CPU, not the GPU.
 
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davidhfe

EOS RP
CR Pro
Sep 9, 2015
307
459
If I am at an outdoor wedding and I am primarily shooting stills, and I switch to capture some B roll transitions etc, I dont want to be in a rushed and tense situation where the camera is immediately threatening to shut off. The fact that this risk exist in the R5 is a failure. Simple. If you are a photographer that doesnt shoot video or doesnt offer these services, thank you, please remain exactly the way you are!

You are broadly right here; These features are in the cameras for a reason. They provide real value to working pros. My quibble is this: I haven't seen anything that indicates 4K full width or 5.1K crop is thermally limited in any way. If you're a true hybrid shooter your options are as wide open as they were before!

- Carry two dedicated cameras, one for best quality video and best quality stills
- Carry one camera and decide which quality you'd like to emphasize: video (A7S/SH1/GH4) or stills (A7R, Z7, R5)

It just so happens that one of those stills-focused cameras *also* has the ability to do a lot more with video, with some pretty huge workflow considerations that may be a dealbreaker, forcing you to do to option 1. The problem here is that Canon told the world this was not a compromise they'd have to make anymore. That was, at best, an overstatement. And at worst, an outright lie.

If I'm wrong about the thermals on the standard or crop 4k modes please let me know as it really would affect my pre-order. I'm 90% stills but I do need a camera to always be able to drop into 4K.
 

Max C

Canon 60D
Feb 9, 2020
113
130
Z6....really? A7R2...REALLY? And you are comparing the Z6 or the A7r2 to the R5? Yeah Nikon was smart, they saw they were going nowhere in video and they just opened the doors to Atomos and external record making a bad camera for video suddenly look appealing. But you need to record almost 100% in MF because you can´t rely on AF of Nikon for video. You have a way worse 4k. You have way less photo capabilities....overall the Z6 is way worse than the R5. I mean....you just can´t compare!!! Not to talk about the Sony A7r2. I have a Sony A7r3 and there are likes and dislikes about the camera...About video it can produce very good video. But...It´s just not even near to this R5. I don´t know about the A7s3 but from what i´ve seen, it´s just as good or even a bit better than the EOS R5 for video. But it´s a videocentric camera, it must be! And it should be way better.

What is the problem of investing more 600$ in a external recording? Well I tell you this...Everyone, I mean....Everyone that is in video for real has an external recorder or at least an external monitor. So....What´s the big deal...And Ninja V is quite small and compact. If it solves your problems why not??

But if you think it´s too much money, then maybe the camera is out of your budget...Think like this....recording to an external record can save you a LOOTT of money in CFEXPRESS cards! SSD drives are way more cheaper than CFEXPRESS at this point. You can buy a 1TB SSD for about 200€ for 240€ you get a 128gb CFEXPRESS...

If you go buy the EOS R5 for video of course you have to make sure you can solve the potencial problems camera can have...And if using an external record solve a lot of problems.....Hell yeahh...!! :D Cheers

No, that's not what I am comparing. This was a follow up comment to another poster. To provide context what I am saying is the Z6 + Atomos is about the same cost of an R6 body alone. In fact I will say the Z6 + Atomos offers more value than the R6, when accounting for the ability to shoot raw and all the features of the Atomos including superb storage. But that again is just my opinion.

When looking at the R5, which sells at premium to the A7SIII, you can basically get the cheaper A7SIII a superior video camera and pair it with the 42mp A7RII, that combo is only a couple hundred dollars more than an R5 body alone. And you get best of both worlds, with lots less limitations.
 
May 15, 2020
5
1
For me, the overheating problem is less of a concern considering that I'm not shooting docs. That said, Canon NEEDS to address this at some point because it's gonna drive video people to the A7SIII.

What I'm more concerned about is H.265. My Macbook Pro stutters when editing H.265 in general so I'm very concerned about editing 4K 60FPS, 10-bit, 4:2:2 footage...

HVEC 4:2:2 is going to be an issue for both Sony and Canon. And I don't think the fanboys who only care about tech specs know the magnitude of this issue.

Source:
 

Go Wild

EOS RP
Dec 8, 2014
290
354
No, that's not what I am comparing. This was a follow up comment to another poster. To provide context what I am saying is the Z6 + Atomos is about the same cost of an R6 body alone. In fact I will say the Z6 + Atomos offers more value than the R6, when accounting for the ability to shoot raw and all the features of the Atomos including superb storage. But that again is just my opinion.

When looking at the R5, which sells at premium to the A7SIII, you can basically get the cheaper A7SIII a superior video camera and pair it with the 42mp A7RII, that combo is only a couple hundred dollars more than an R5 body alone. And you get best of both worlds, with lots less limitations.

Then again, the R6 is very superior to the Z6. And then again, if you buy the R6 for video, you should always buy an external recorder. It just helps a lot!

From the other perspective, that´s why the R5 is so powerful you don´t need 2 bodies!! You can do everything with one body! And again....limitations are very, but VERY abstract! It can be a problem for some people...yes, but not for others. And let me remind that the A7s3 also overheats. Not like Canon, but it overheats in some occasions which is normal. But let me point some things about the A7r2. Crappy battery. Crappy body, crappy AF, crappy hardware. Sony has corrected most of the flaws of the R2 in the R3. So if you want to be effective in photos you must buy the R3. Unless your type of photo doesn´t require a good AF and you don´t care to carry 6 batteries.

The R5 is a beast for photos and video. And for my use it´s the perfect camera! Yes, we have potencialy overheating problems in video! And again yes, if I can solve them with an external record...I got a perfect camera!! :D
 
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davidhfe

EOS RP
CR Pro
Sep 9, 2015
307
459
No, that's not what I am comparing. This was a follow up comment to another poster. To provide context what I am saying is the Z6 + Atomos is about the same cost of an R6 body alone. In fact I will say the Z6 + Atomos offers more value than the R6, when accounting for the ability to shoot raw and all the features of the Atomos including superb storage. But that again is just my opinion.

When looking at the R5, which sells at premium to the A7SIII, you can basically get the cheaper A7SIII a superior video camera and pair it with the 42mp A7RII, that combo is only a couple hundred dollars more than an R5 body alone. And you get best of both worlds, with lots less limitations.

The A7RII has so many limitations compared to the III or IV I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. The AF is not great, the ergonomics were well before Sony finally hit their stride and isn't it known for overheating? It's a great camera if all you need is a 42mp sensor with solid DR, but it falls short as a workhorse. Sony, to their credit, made a lot of strides with the following two generations. There's a reason you can pick one up for $1200. Good luck even getting the rated 5fps out of that camera.

100% fair to say that you can get a compelling video focused package with those two bodies. Is it not fair to say there are "lots less limitations" with that combo. If you need reliable autofocus or more than 5 frames per second (uh, and the buffer holds like 22 raw and it only dumps to UHS-I cards) there are most certainly a lot of limitations.

Anyways, If the gap here is Canon doesn't have a 2 generations old cameras that meets your needs, ok, welcome to capitalism. But that doesn't mean the R5 sucks.

If the gap here is that Canon doesn't have a current generation 12mp video centric mirrorless body, YES you are totally right. I wish they did too! But that doesn't mean the R5 sucks.
 

Ferris

EOS M50
Feb 12, 2014
30
0
It's probably far too late for this, but the best solution for long high bit-rate record times is a dedicated heat sink. I think Canon might be better served in the long run by bringing two variants to market. Keep the weather sealed R5 and R6 as they are now with their modest recording times and market those to stills photographers. And then release video modified versions (RV5 and RV6 if you will) with a redesigned back to accommodate a vented heat sink (and fan possibly). The rear of the camera would probably look like the monstrously ugly Fuji GFX-50S, but it would certainly take care of the overheating issue.

Just to clarify, does the 'V' stand for video, or for Vornado?
 

Max C

Canon 60D
Feb 9, 2020
113
130
Then again, the R6 is very superior to the Z6. And then again, if you buy the R6 for video, you should always buy an external recorder. It just helps a lot!

From the other perspective, that´s why the R5 is so powerful you don´t need 2 bodies!! You can do everything with one body! And again....limitations are very, but VERY abstract! It can be a problem for some people...yes, but not for others. And let me remind that the A7s3 also overheats. Not like Canon, but it overheats in some occasions which is normal. But let me point some things about the A7r2. Crappy battery. Crappy body, crappy AF, crappy hardware. Sony has corrected most of the flaws of the R2 in the R3. So if you want to be effective in photos you must buy the R3. Unless your type of photo doesn´t require a good AF and you don´t care to carry 6 batteries.

The R5 is a beast for photos and video. And for my use it´s the perfect camera! Yes, we have potencialy overheating problems in video! And again yes, if I can solve them with an external record...I got a perfect camera!! :D
Sidenote: Most of my jobs require two bodies at least.

Right now the limitations with overheating on R5 and R6 are too much for me and what I do. I do agree they are great cameras spec wise, but the overheating time just doesn't work for me.
 
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Deleted member 378221

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It's truly amazing what lengths people go through to convince everyone this camera is perfectly fine as it is, and Canon should not have done anything more to mitigate the constnt heat buildup somehow.
Canon has marketed the movie modes heavily. From the original presentation in this order: 20 fps - AF - ISO 51k - 45MP - 4K120 - 8K

So yeah, it's on the feature list and some people would like it to work without three asterisks behind each video mode. To be clear, I do not expect this camera to work in 8k without limitations, that would be absurd. However shooting 4k you have the choice between 4k120, 4k60 and 4k30 HQ (which all overheat), and 4k30 either line-skipped or cropped, which each brings it's own problems. So your choice is either overheating modes or otherwise flawed modes. Not to mention the R6, which overheats in all 4K modes.

People talking about "noone needs to record this long" fail to see that the heat countdown starts the second you turn on the camera, which certainly does not help any workflow.

I frequently do 4 hour video assignments with two or more cameras that yield about an hour of footage. This is no cinema production, just something anyone with some skills can do on the side. Currently doing this with an 1DX2 (4K60, but no CLog) and a 5D4 (CLog, but no 4K60).
Is it too much to expect a new camera to make this easier? Instead I have to keep an excel sheet in my head when which camera might overheat and which mode I can still use without running down the timer too much, all the while switching off all cameras at the slightest hint of apause.

Is this the video future anyone wanted?

I'm happy for you if you shot photos only, really. This is a great camera. But just because you don't need video doesn't mean the problems shouldn't be fixed.

For the record, I would be happy with up to 4K60 without overheating, and the camera not heating up as much in standy. I'm fine with special modes (4K120 and 8K) running down the clock. Is that still too much to ask from a 4400€ camera in a world where video on ILCs has been common (and expected) for years?

Also you guy do realize that if the camera heats up in standby, that this will degrade ISO performance even if you're not using it? How much is anyone's guess. But is that really what you want, a camera that degrades the longer you let it sit turned on?

For the record I have my R5 preordered and am planning to work around the limitations, hopefully it'll be fine with an external recorder. But I really should not have to rely on hope in this pricerange...
 
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