What Will The EOS 5D Mark IV Bring to the Table?

[zim]

...
- Proper support for UDMA7 and fast XQD - NO CFast

Hmm. Interesting.

Choices:
CF + CF (too much space)
CF + CFast (also too much space?)
CF + SD
CF + XQD
SD + CFast
SD + XQD
CFast + XQD

- No 4k video - better FullHD codec up to 60fps with DPAF

If it is DIGIC 6+, it will be 4K capable.

Ah didn't read that bit correctly so on re-reading CF + SD (UHS-II compatible)

 

[StudentOfLight]

Full frame DPAF CMOS
25.6 MP
7.4 fps (5fps in "silent" continuous)
Same 61pt AF system as 1D-X Mark-II
Same touchscreen LCD as 1D-X Mark-II
Built-in GPS
8bit DCI 4K, 24/25/30p (Mjpeg)... clean HDMI out
Slot 1: CFast 2.0 ... this offers speed for 4K and good buffer performance
Slot 2: SD (U3/UHS-II) ... this offers cheap high capacity media for jpeg/mRAW/sRAW

I hope CFast is implemented in lower tier models as well. (e.g. 6D mark-II / 80D)
It would be nice if these models include 4K 60p bursts even if just for 1 or 2 seconds. These would be marketable features and the economies of scale (for card manufacturers) can help lower the cost of CFast. If they can forecast higher sales then they can reduce price at least for medium sized cards

 

[docsmith]

First, XQD is a sony technology. I am skeptical that Canon will ever adopt it.

Full frame DPAF CMOS
25.6 MP
7.4 fps (5fps in "silent" continuous)
Same 61pt AF system as 1D-X Mark-II
Same touchscreen LCD as 1D-X Mark-II
Built-in GPS
8bit DCI 4K, 24/25/30p (Mjpeg)... clean HDMI out
Slot 1: CFast 2.0 ... this offers speed for 4K and good buffer performance
Slot 2: SD (U3/UHS-II) ... this offers cheap high capacity media for jpeg/mRAW/sRAW

I hope CFast is implemented in lower tier models as well. (e.g. 6D mark-II / 80D)
It would be nice if these models include 4K 60p bursts even if just for 1 or 2 seconds. These would be marketable features and the economies of scale (for card manufacturers) can help lower the cost of CFast. If they can forecast higher sales then they can reduce price at least for medium sized cards

There are some pretty good lists floating around. I think we should not forget that there are likely two more FF bodies coming in the next 12-16 months, the 5DIV and 6DII. So not everything needs to be dropped into the 5DIV. I am actually hopeful that the 6DII becomes an enthusiast/prosumer beast.

Canon does a good job of tailoring their cameras to a core market. The 5DIII was wedding/event photographers. I hope that target market does not change, but it might. If that stays the same, I suspect a lot of the above specs are pretty close.

Video (not that I personally care, but many "wedding/event" shooters would):
I wonder if Canon thinks they need 4K or not? I can see 60 fps at 1080p being sufficient.
If 4K, then CFast, if 1080p, CF.
Touchscreen and DPAF---both make sense as nice improvements
The 1DxII has 8-bit, but I wonder if we might see 10 bit video?

Still photography:
1Dx II AF. EV -3 (maybe lower?). I hope to get the f/8 AF at all points, but that might not happen.
7-8 fps
24-26 MP

I think the flipscreen ends up in the 6DII and not the 5DIV.

 

[paxfoto]

I have a 5D mk1 and 7D mk1. Quality video is more important than 4K. As a minimum it should have 1920 x 1080 at 60 fps.

Since Panasonic GH4 have variable frame rate from 2 fps I would definitely like that in 5D or 6D.

This would push me off the fence:
- 24MP +
- 1920 x 1080 at 60 fps (120p would be nice)
- variable frame rate
- Articulated LCD (not that important)
- Integrated WIFI (important)

I really miss live view in my 5D mk1, and a 5D with WIFI and variable frame rate would make me run to the store.

 

[3kramd5]

First, XQD is a sony technology.

XQD is a Compact Flash Assn technology. Sony is a member. So is Canon. So are Nikon, Fuji, Blackmagic, Leica, and a host of tech companies.

 

[unfocused]

I have a 5D mk1 and 7D mk1. Quality video is more important than 4K. As a minimum it should have 1920 x 1080 at 60 fps.
...

60fps does not make quality video.

4:2:2 colour and a higher bitrate make quality video.

No. Talent makes quality video. Lots of quality videos shot on iPhones and such. Lots of crap shot on pro cinema cameras. Just like stills. Talent trumps everything.

 

[docsmith]

First, XQD is a sony technology.

XQD is a Compact Flash Assn technology. Sony is a member. So is Canon. So are Nikon, Fuji, Blackmagic, Leica, and a host of tech companies.

My mistake. I thought I had read that, but now I can't find it. It does look as if for awhile Sony was the only manufacturer, but now Lexar also makes them, could be that is what I saw. There are a few references that Lexar's support of XQD is shaky, but Lexar themselves say they are behind it. As I saw that Sandisk has said they are not developing XQD, but if Canon incorporated XQD maybe others (Sandisk, etc) would start manufacturing cards as well.

That said, it seems like the split with Sony/Nikon going with XQD and Canon (and Arri, Blackmagic, and PhaseOne) going with CFast happened several years ago.

 

[StudentOfLight]

...
- Proper support for UDMA7 and fast XQD - NO CFast

Hmm. Interesting.

Choices:
CF + CF (too much space)
CF + CFast (also too much space?)
CF + SD
CF + XQD
SD + CFast
SD + XQD
CFast + XQD

- No 4k video - better FullHD codec up to 60fps with DPAF

If it is DIGIC 6+, it will be 4K capable.

I don't understand your "too much space" argument. Is it impossible for Canon to design a handgrip which is 2mm deeper to accommodate a slightly thicker card? I doubt anyone would notice such a tiny difference in dimensions.

 

[dolina]

By 2020 I expect Canon to drop CF cards in favor for CFast and SDXC UHS-II cards.

 

[kaihp]

By 2020 I expect Canon to adopt CF cards in favor for CFast and SDXC UHS-II cards.

Adopting an older standard over a new standard? CF cards over CFast, seriously?

 

[dolina]

By 2020 I expect Canon to adopt CF cards in favor for CFast and SDXC UHS-II cards.

Adopting an older standard over a new standard? CF cards over CFast, seriously?

I mean dropping.

For those worried about pricing I expect 256GB 3600x CFast cards to sell for $100 by 2020. Today it goes for $675.50.

 

[tpatana]

...
- Proper support for UDMA7 and fast XQD - NO CFast

Hmm. Interesting.

Choices:
CF + CF (too much space)
CF + CFast (also too much space?)
CF + SD
CF + XQD
SD + CFast
SD + XQD
CFast + XQD

- No 4k video - better FullHD codec up to 60fps with DPAF

If it is DIGIC 6+, it will be 4K capable.

I don't understand your "too much space" argument. Is it impossible for Canon to design a handgrip which is 2mm deeper to accommodate a slightly thicker card? I doubt anyone would notice such a tiny difference in dimensions.

Cameras are not that bad I guess, but you should see the lengths phone makers go to shave off that 0.1mm.

 

[mkabi]

If it is DIGIC 6+, it will be 4K capable.

You don't know that...
The 1DX2 has dual Digic 6+ (keyword is dual, meaning 2) and an additional Digic 6 (no plus).
Thats 3 processors. Thats how the 1DX was too, meaning it had 3 processors too.
Plus, it has a cooling system that no other camera has...

Just cause the 5D4, might have a single Digic 6+ or Digic 7, doesn't mean its the same as a 1DX2 and offer 4K.
However, if they had at least two processors like the 5DS/5DSR, and a cooling system... then I will begin to believe.

 

[3kramd5]

Nothing should be bigger than it absolutely needs to be.

That's an incomplete statement. It's missing the part which reads "to satisfy the requirements." If the requirements call for a thicker card, then the size associated with that card is what it needs to be. Same with packaging a 36X24 mm^2 sensor, or an optical VF, or a tripod mount, etc.

The requirements also likely include human factors, which may lead to a camera being larger than merely the packaging, power, and thermal envelope.

 

[sjprg]

Que, Say Ra, Say Ra.

 

[mkabi]

If it is DIGIC 6+, it will be 4K capable.

You don't know that...
The 1DX2 has dual Digic 6+ (keyword is dual, meaning 2) and an additional Digic 6 (no plus).
Thats 3 processors. Thats how the 1DX was too, meaning it had 3 processors too.
Plus, it has a cooling system that no other camera has...

You're right, I don't know that but traditionally video capability has been part of the foundations for the camera.

Where did you see it mentioned that the 1DXII has 2x6+ and 1x6? I've only seen mention of 2x6+.

And consider that Canon say "1 processor dedicated to AF", it means the other one (or two?) is available for normal use. So if it were 1x6+ for AF and 1x6+ for video/photos, then yes, the 6+ can do 4k in another camera by itself.

It has a dedicated metering processor.

http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2016/02/08/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-vs-eos-1d-x-12-things-you-need-to-know/

So, in the mark 1 - the 1dx had dual 5+ and a digic 4.
And, in the mark 2, it has dual 6+ and one digic 6.

 

[j-nord]

If it isn't 7+ fps and 28+ mpix then this camera won't interest me at all. This camera is supposed to be very well rounded. If it cannot fill the gap between the 5Ds R and 7Dii for speed and mpix it's going to be an irrelevant upgrade path for a lot of people.

 

[BLFPhoto]

As someone involved in industrial design, to include human factors engineering, I can assure you every millimeter of these cameras matters. 2mm may not matter to you, but there is competition for every bit of space claim. Card provisions are just one of many competing space claims.

...
I don't understand your "too much space" argument. Is it impossible for Canon to design a handgrip which is 2mm deeper to accommodate a slightly thicker card? I doubt anyone would notice such a tiny difference in dimensions.

2mm deeper grip means it is bigger, weighs more and costs more.

Nothing should be bigger than it absolutely needs to be. Look at the tear downs. Everything is tightly packed in. It's not "just a box."

 

[ThePhotoBrewery]

In my opinion a new 5D model will have quite a few features taken from the 1DX Mark II simply as they did the same when the 5D III came out.

I think the autofocus will be the same with dual pixel AF, illuminated AF points, Cfast + SD slots, touchscreen and resolution wise I would agree with what others have said and believe it will be 28MP. Maybe a little more (Maybe the 6D II will get 24MP).

WiFi has always been a strong feature for me in my camera and worked really well. Therefore, WiFi would be on my personal wishlist for this camera. Touchscreen is nice but not really a need for me.

I just hope they announce something soon. I am itching to try it out!

All the best!

 

[StudentOfLight]

...
I don't understand your "too much space" argument. Is it impossible for Canon to design a handgrip which is 2mm deeper to accommodate a slightly thicker card? I doubt anyone would notice such a tiny difference in dimensions.

2mm deeper grip means it is bigger, weighs more and costs more.

Nothing should be bigger than it absolutely needs to be. Look at the tear downs. Everything is tightly packed in. It's not "just a box."

When talking mathematically then yes, as a mechanical engineer I care more about practicality.

There is a joke that goes as follows:
"A man and woman stand at opposite ends of a room that is 8m long. Every minute the gap between them is reduced by 50%. A mathematician says that the man and woman will never touch. An engineer OTOH says that after 15 minutes the man and woman are close enough for all practical purposes."

So the questions to ask are how different are the costs and how different is the weight?

The plastic spacers inside the camera would be the same. So the magnesium alloy shell would be the difference right. The die needs to be designed and manufactured. This will take the same amount of design-man-hours and would be cast from the same sized block and manufacturing that block would take the the same amount of time.

The difference in mass would be in the end product would be mostly magnesium alloy:
M = (MagAlloy density) x (added depth) x (wall thickness) x (length)
= (1800kg/m^3) x (0.002m) x (0.002m) x (0.142m)
= 0.001028kg
(roughly 1g)

How could we estimate the difference in material cost:
$ = (MagAlloy price) x (MagAlloy density) x (added depth) x (wall thickness) x (length)
= ($17.9/kg) x (0.001028kg)
= $0.0184
(roughly 2c)

Just thought I'd add my 2c worth... LOL

p.s. You can nitpick my numbers if you want but the point is that there is no practical difference between adding 2mm to the depth of the hand-grip and the current size, it is close enough for all practical purposes to feel the same and cost the same.