Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?

[slclick]

I am very curious to see who the intended market for the 6d II is for and only Canon knows the answer to this. I am not so sure that the idea of making the original 6D as an entry level Full Frame to lure enthusiasts up from the APS-C purchasers worked out well for Canon, (although it worked for me). The fly in the ointment was that the purchaser could not use his EF-S lenses on it and therefore would also need to upgrade his lenses and EF lenses are expensive. That is the problem I have when I try to get my friends to upgrade from their Rebels to Full Frame. I think the vast amount of purchasers of the original already had FF and EF lenses and were looking for a second body that was less expensive. Canon later stated that the next 6D was going upscale.

Therefore, I am not so sure that the 6D series will remain a crippled 5D series. It all depends on how Canon now sees the future market for this fine camera.

Please stop using that word ...(cripple) It's ridiculous. I could go into ANY other industry for analogies, so remember, when you have price points you must have differentiation in feature sets.

I agree with you 100%. I hate that word too. I was actually knocking the notion that Canon cripples their cameras. I probably should have put that word in quotes.

Cool, look I didn't mean to come across as a jerk but that word.... Have great day!

 

[StudentOfLight]

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType

 

[Zv]

Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!

Have you been reading this thread at all? If the rumored specs come to pass, we'd be delighted.

I'm just saying Canon shouldn't offer that much for $2k because it will likely steal 5D4 sales.

As for ex-US price considerations, I'm admittedly a novice. But the price gulf you describe exists in the US albeit with different values:

5D4 = $3499
6D1 (right now) = $1269

My argument is not the price, but the value proposition. A $2k 6D2 that can do (at least with stills) a solid 90% of what the 5D4 can do isn't going to solve that gulf. It will flip large groups of users downmarket, which makes no sense for a market leader unless they've found a way to build a 6D2 at a staggeringly low production cost.

I still contend that -- for this rumored spec list -- the price needs to be higher than $2k or something the 5D4 does that the 6D2 doesn't that we haven't been talking about will surface eventually. My guess is it will be something fairly important that might protect the 5D4's asking price. No idea what the feature is, honestly, hence my intuition that they might be reaching for more than $2k at first asking.

- A

Maybe not this particular thread but I can just tell from experience anytime there are specs listed there is a flurry of lament from a bunch of haters who somehow insist on having the specs of the 1DXII (plus more since it's a "new" camera") in the body of a 6D at the price of a rebel.

It's rare to hear people actually saying "these specs are awesome for this price range!!" I guess I've just become accustomed to the bashing.

I'm generally a positive kinda person these days (never used to be admittedly!) but I think after a while you realize there's more to life? than a spec sheet.

Camera works? Great. Let's take some pictures.

It's all about IQ in the end and no one can really doubt that the 6DII will be better than the 6D so everything else is largely irrelevant IMO.

 

[neonlight]

For me, I'd want the 45 focus points, tilty-flippy and two SD card slots (not a CF). What put me off 6D1 was the incompatible AF on f/8. Some of us have to put up with smaller aperture lenses, so f/8 on several (more than one) focus points would be good. 6D2 should be a 7DII equivalent full frame but less fps would be fine for most of us, and only one processor that is not so battery hungry on normal shooting.

 

[Loswr]

I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.

Could Canon keep making the original 6D?

Good question. Whereas the 6D2 all but certainly spells the end for the 5D3, I'm less sure about the 6D1. The 6D2 is such a feature set bump over the 6D1 that they almost sit in different market spaces. One could see a near-future (say 2018) in which the FF line is:

Budget: 6D1
Mid-level: 6D2
All-Purpose Pro: 5D4
High Res Pro: 5DS/R
Flagship: 1DX2

But does Canon want those two red line items to coexist? I think they certainly could given how much better the 6D2 is spec'd to be, but perhaps Canon wants to take the 6D1 off the board to prevent a still-in-production $1000-1200 FF rig (albeit a dated one) from ever becoming a market expectation.

When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.

 

[hbr]

What put me off 6D1 was the incompatible AF on f/8. Some of us have to put up with smaller aperture lenses, so f/8 on several (more than one) focus points would be good.

Agreed. I purchased the 400mm f/5.6 to capture images of all the birds in my back yard and was so disappointed that the 6D would not auto focus when I used the lens with a 1.4 TC. I ended up buying a 7D II solely for that reason. I love the 7D II but the image quality is not the same as the 6D.

The auto focus system was the major limitation of the 6D.

 

[ahsanford]

When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.

Correct. I posted the same on page 1 of this thread, Neuro.

The question is: do both the 6D1 and 5D3 get discontinued after the 6D2 is released, or will the 6D1 live on?

- A

 

[slclick]

I really hope the changes to the 6D line are small. Small but effective.
I disagree that it needs to be a 7D2 equivalent in a FF. It is what it is. It is not an action,high fps, great tracking, must work with all lenses product.
It should stay in the market where it started. Entry level FF, low light leader, solid, smaller than the rest of the FF lines, a good feature set but nothing too extravagant. Great menus and easy to configure for stills and minor video work. No 4k. Not too many af points.
Keep the launch price at $1999 USD and continue the momentum the 6D had.

 

[hbr]

I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.

Could Canon keep making the original 6D?

Good question. Whereas the 6D2 all but certainly spells the end for the 5D3, I'm less sure about the 6D1. The 6D2 is such a feature set bump over the 6D1 that they almost sit in different market spaces. One could see a near-future (say 2018) in which the FF line is:

Budget: 6D1
Mid-level: 6D2
All-Purpose Pro: 5D4
High Res Pro: 5DS/R
Flagship: 1DX2

But does Canon want those two red line items to coexist? I think they certainly could given how much better the 6D2 is spec'd to be, but perhaps Canon wants to take the 6D1 off the board to prevent a still-in-production $1000-1200 FF rig (albeit a dated one) from ever becoming a market expectation.

When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.

I would love for Canon to keep the original 6D around as the entry level FF, but I doubt if they will.

 

[Don Haines]

I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.

Could Canon keep making the original 6D?

Good question. Whereas the 6D2 all but certainly spells the end for the 5D3, I'm less sure about the 6D1. The 6D2 is such a feature set bump over the 6D1 that they almost sit in different market spaces. One could see a near-future (say 2018) in which the FF line is:

Budget: 6D1
Mid-level: 6D2
All-Purpose Pro: 5D4
High Res Pro: 5DS/R
Flagship: 1DX2

But does Canon want those two red line items to coexist? I think they certainly could given how much better the 6D2 is spec'd to be, but perhaps Canon wants to take the 6D1 off the board to prevent a still-in-production $1000-1200 FF rig (albeit a dated one) from ever becoming a market expectation.

When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.

I would love for Canon to keep the original 6D around as the entry level FF, but I doubt if they will.

keep in mind that Canon is shutting down the fabrication line that made the old sensors and going with newer (finer) lithography..... the old parts are just not going to be available....

 

[bereninga]

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType

This sounds about right, but I still think it'll be a 19-point all cross-type AF system (but at least it'll have DPAF). When the 6D came out, its AF system was indeed lower than the t4i, which was released before the 6D. The t4i had 9 all cross-type vs the 6D, which only had ONE cross-type (facepalm).

I think the 6D was aimed at the photographers who did landscape, low-light/astro, prosumer market aka folks who didn't need a super AF system.

Canon's success w/ the 6D might've been very unexpected and now they're being extra careful on its release of the 6DII.

This site is very accurate on its rumored spec list, so if this list were to be true (with 45 or 41 AF points), I think the 6DII price will be > $2k. I imagine something around $2400. The 6D was introduced at $2100 and it was rumored to move upmarket and it'll replace the 5DIII spot in Canon's lineup.

 

[Loswr]

When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.

Correct. I posted the same on page 1 of this thread, Neuro.

The question is: do both the 6D1 and 5D3 get discontinued after the 6D2 is released, or will the 6D1 live on?

My bet is that they both go.

 

[rfdesigner]

When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.

Correct. I posted the same on page 1 of this thread, Neuro.

The question is: do both the 6D1 and 5D3 get discontinued after the 6D2 is released, or will the 6D1 live on?

My bet is that they both go.

but could there be a seperate 6D1 replacement.

So 5DIV = new
5DIII => 6D2
5DII => 6D => ??

could they do an 8D?

is this where a mirrorless FF would fit?

 

[Loswr]

but could there be a seperate 6D1 replacement.

So 5DIV = new
5DIII => 6D2
5DII => 6D => ??

could they do an 8D?

is this where a mirrorless FF would fit?

5DIII => 5DIV
6D => 6DII

The 5DII => 6D was basically a one-off, because the 6D was a new addition to the lineup.

I expect a mirrorless FF would initially be at the same level as the 6D, just as the initial EOS M was spec'd like a Rebel/xxxD. Now, with the M5 we have an xxD-type MILC, and similarly a few years after an entry-level FF MILC, Canon would bring a 5-series type MILC.

 

[hbr]

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType

This sounds about right, but I still think it'll be a 19-point all cross-type AF system (but at least it'll have DPAF). When the 6D came out, its AF system was indeed lower than the t4i, which was released before the 6D. The t4i had 9 all cross-type vs the 6D, which only had ONE cross-type (facepalm).

I think the 6D was aimed at the photographers who did landscape, low-light/astro, prosumer market aka folks who didn't need a super AF system.

Agreed about the type of photographers the 6D was targeted at but interestingly many wedding photographers purchased it as a second body. I don't think Canon counted on that. For them that is where the 11 point AF system was inadequate. I would not complain about a 19 point system as long as the points covered enough of the frame to have some leeway in composing the picture. The 7D II's AF system is a totally different animal and is not needed on the 6D II but I also wouldn't complain if Canon compromised and went with the 80D's system. After all, $2000 or so is still a lot of money and Canon would need to have some quite serious upgrades if they expect people to shell out that much money while the original is still around and is still a great camera. Plus they need to take into account what the competition will do over the next 5 years.

This site is very accurate on its rumored spec list, so if this list were to be true (with 45 or 41 AF points), I think the 6DII price will be > $2k. I imagine something around $2400. The 6D was introduced at $2100 and it was rumored to move upmarket and it'll replace the 5DIII spot in Canon's lineup.

Canon has done a pretty good job so far at keeping the initial price near to the original price of the camera it is replacing.

The suspense builds.

 

[ahsanford]

5DIII => 5DIV
6D => 6DII

The 5DII => 6D was basically a one-off, because the 6D was a new addition to the lineup.

I expect a mirrorless FF would initially be at the same level as the 6D, just as the initial EOS M was spec'd like a Rebel/xxxD. Now, with the M5 we have an xxD-type MILC, and similarly a few years after an entry-level FF MILC, Canon would bring a 5-series type MILC.

+1 on the what replaced what above. Agree with Neuro here. The 5D2 --> 6D transition was a one-off that represented an expansion to the FF lineup.

+0.5 on the mirrorless FF. Tech-level-wise, I agree (but perhaps more like the 6D2 at this point). But price-wise I think they'll be silly (esp. if they beat Nikon to market) and go after premium dollars as the 'first' mirrorless offering with access to one of the two great FF lens ecosystems.

So I could see Canon idiotically asking for $2499-2999 for a mirrorless clone of a $2000 rig if it was super sexy somehow (added tech, exclusive viewfinder hotness, 'pretty' design :, etc.)

- A

 

[scrup]

Would be surprised if they put 4k and dual slots. The rest of the specs look plausible for a 2k price tag.

 

[Loswr]

5DIII => 5DIV
6D => 6DII

The 5DII => 6D was basically a one-off, because the 6D was a new addition to the lineup.

I expect a mirrorless FF would initially be at the same level as the 6D, just as the initial EOS M was spec'd like a Rebel/xxxD. Now, with the M5 we have an xxD-type MILC, and similarly a few years after an entry-level FF MILC, Canon would bring a 5-series type MILC.

+1 on the what replaced what above. Agree with Neuro here. The 5D2 --> 6D transition was a one-off that represented an expansion to the FF lineup.

+0.5 on the mirrorless FF. Tech-level-wise, I agree (but perhaps more like the 6D2 at this point). But price-wise I think they'll be silly (esp. if they beat Nikon to market) and go after premium dollars as the 'first' mirrorless offering with access to one of the two great FF lens ecosystems.

So I could see Canon idiotically asking for $2499-2999 for a mirrorless clone of a $2000 rig if it was super sexy somehow (added tech, exclusive viewfinder hotness, 'pretty' design :, etc.)

Agree on 6DII-like, I should have stated it as 6-series type MILC.

Not so sure that Canon will be 'silly' on price. The EOS M was basically a mirrorless T4i, and launched at about the same price as a T4i (and while it didn't sell well at that price in North America, it did very will in Asia). The M5 is pretty much a mirrorless 80D, and it costs less than the 80D.

 

[ahsanford]

Not so sure that Canon will be 'silly' on price. The EOS M was basically a mirrorless T4i, and launched at about the same price as a T4i (and while it didn't sell well at that price in North America, it did very will in Asia). The M5 is pretty much a mirrorless 80D, and it costs less than the 80D.

Indeed, I thought for a bit on the above facts before I posted my prior claim. But I feel that FF is a little different in that...

[list type=decimal]
[*]Canon was effectively last to the CX/m43/APS-C mirrorless party with EOS M and could not chase premium dollars with (candidly) pedestrian/reliable specs in a market full of beefier spec'd options. FF mirrorless is a bit different in that only Sony plays in this space (yes, I'm disregarding Leica) and Canon has had better luck arguing for a brand premium against them.


[*]There is something 'big', momentous, etc. about the first FF mirrorless from Nikon or Canon given the trapped advantage they have of such rich lens portfolios that can't truly be unlocked with third party adaptors. I could see Canon trying to exploit that somewhat.


[*]Unlike EOS M, in which existing Canonites slowly opted in as the feature-set evolved and AF speed improved, I could see a properly spec'd 'EOS FF M' being a formidable rig based on proven tech with exceptionally high day one confidence -- that means a lot of existing FF users might go in strong on day one. In a sense, it might be the droid second FF body you are looking for and drive a 'tiny travel body / b-cam' lust factor that might warrant a premium.



[*]If Canon 'goes thin' with the mount as we've discussed (as one of two more-likely-than-not possibilities with the mount), there's a chance Canon goes all sexy/sleek/small with the design to chase the enthusiast vote. They might get greedy and ask for more for that. (Update: I still contend they might go with a fixed FF mirrorless offering and chase RX1 and Leica Q dollars for that crowd. I always leave that comment out, and the yes/no of offering such a rig would certainly drive Canon's 'premium vs. reasonable' FF mirrorless pricing strategy.)
[/list]

I'm rambling, no doubt, but I just have a gut feeling Canon will reach for more dollars if they go to market before others. But if Nikon (or who knows, Fuji/Olympus/Panasonic/Pentax might get crazy and get in on FF mirrorless) gets there first, I could see Canon FF mirrorless downshifting to the sensible pricing of the SLR framework they are based on.

- A

 

[Maiaibing]

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType

Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.