Where is the Canon EOS 6D Mark II?

[ahsanford]

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType

Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.

+1. I do this with my 5D3 as well, which has never let me down. (In fairness, I almost never shoot BiF / sports / action so I don't push my AF nearly as hard as others do here.)

- A

 

[rfdesigner]

I think a change like this could leave a gap where the Nikon D610 is, i.e. those that want FF for the minimum price.

Could Canon keep making the original 6D?

Good question. Whereas the 6D2 all but certainly spells the end for the 5D3, I'm less sure about the 6D1. The 6D2 is such a feature set bump over the 6D1 that they almost sit in different market spaces. One could see a near-future (say 2018) in which the FF line is:

Budget: 6D1
Mid-level: 6D2
All-Purpose Pro: 5D4
High Res Pro: 5DS/R
Flagship: 1DX2

But does Canon want those two red line items to coexist? I think they certainly could given how much better the 6D2 is spec'd to be, but perhaps Canon wants to take the 6D1 off the board to prevent a still-in-production $1000-1200 FF rig (albeit a dated one) from ever becoming a market expectation.

When Canon launched the 5DIII, they did not discontinue/EOL the 5DII. Rather, they kept it active for ~6 months (IIRC), until the launch of the 6D which was really the direct replacement for the 5DII.

I would love for Canon to keep the original 6D around as the entry level FF, but I doubt if they will.

keep in mind that Canon is shutting down the fabrication line that made the old sensors and going with newer (finer) lithography..... the old parts are just not going to be available....

which begs the question, how much stock?.. it's usually cost effective and simple to keep an old line busy right up to closing day churning out a maximum number of wafers.

 

[magarity]

I'm happy for everyone who gets the new model when it comes out but my version 1 is only 2 years old and as a non-pro I (1) can't justify the expense and (2) have enough fun with the capabilities I already got.

 

[Sharlin]

Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.

+1. I do this with my 5D3 as well, which has never let me down. (In fairness, I almost never shoot BiF / sports / action so I don't push my AF nearly as hard as others do here.)

As an aside, does anyone care to speculate why Canon's newest and greatest flagship PDAF system is not all cross-type? Specifically given that the 7D2 65-point sensor is... And the 80D 45-point system too, of course. Why didn't they move to a 7D2-like sensor in the 1D2 and the 5D4?

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.

+1. I do this with my 5D3 as well, which has never let me down. (In fairness, I almost never shoot BiF / sports / action so I don't push my AF nearly as hard as others do here.)

As an aside, does anyone care to speculate why Canon's newest and greatest flagship PDAF system is not all cross-type? Specifically given that the 7D2 65-point sensor is... And the 80D 45-point system too, of course. Why didn't they move to a 7D2-like sensor in the 1D2 and the 5D4?

I believe that the very steep angle of the light makes it difficult to cross-tipe AF points, when far away from the full frame center.

 

[Mikehit]

The 5DIV is an expensive beast and my guess is there are a lot of people not upgrading who would have done so in previous generations. Which is odd in some ways when you consider the launch price of the 5DIV is about the same as the launch price of the 5DIII 5 years ago (people too often comapre to the current street price which is unrealistic)

But what features would make someone think 'wow, the 5D4 is a better camera for my way of shooting so I will get that instead of the 6D2'.
My guess is:
build and weather sealing. Someone who needs a robust camera wants it to feel robust and is unlikely to go to a lesser-sealed camera
An inferior AF system - the 80D is very similar to the AF of the 7D2, but just not quite as adaptable. So in a similar way, even if the 6D2 has 45 points and looks similar to the 5DIV , as long as the processor allocation and power allocation and the number of pixels on the AF sensor is not quite the same standard as the 5DIV it certainly won't perform as well and if the options on AF modes is slightly less that will be enough to differentiate it
Viewfinder - if it is not quite as big and bright as the 5DIV it will (psychologically at least) impact its impression
Custom modes
The inner wheel dial instead of a joystick (the joystick is so much better)

I am sure there are a few others that would on spec be impressive but when reviews come out it will be things like this that create a price difference. And in many ways, if someone would be willing to accept these compromises, would they be likely to buy a 5DIV in the first place - if the answer is 'no' then no cannibilisation of the 5DIV sales has occurred.

 

[eguzowski]

I'd sell my 5D Mark III's and buy 3 6D's if those specs hold true...I shoot photo and video (video I use three cameras and the "A" camera needs to shoot 4k with a non-work heavy codec... I'd probably buy 2 of them and have my "A" camera be a panasonic GH5 because the 4k codec is nice and it doesn't have a 30 minute time limit...just use "neat" noise reduction plug-in for final cut pro...note 80% of my work is still photography but video is essential in boosting business (multi-cam edits always!). www.ExhalePhotoJournalism.com

 

[StudentOfLight]

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType

Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.

Yes, of course. I do too. (I want reliable AF performance)
but my point was they can effectively differentiate without spending additional R&D to develop a new system. The result would be that on a spec sheet it would says one camera has 61pt and the other 41pt. Differentiation complete.

I mean why develop a weaker all-new AF system for a lower end body? That R&D would be put to better use on Lenses.

 

[ExodistPhotography]

To save costs they could just use the same AF sensor as in the 5D-IV, but disable the non-cross-type points. This would give a 41 point AF system with the ability for them to proudly proclaim that they are #AllCrossType

Always set 5DIV and 5DS/R to not use anything but Cross Type anyway. Recommended.

Yes, of course. I do too. (I want reliable AF performance)
but my point was they can effectively differentiate without spending additional R&D to develop a new system. The result would be that on a spec sheet it would says one camera has 61pt and the other 41pt. Differentiation complete.

I mean why develop a weaker all-new AF system for a lower end body? That R&D would be put to better use on Lenses.

I completely agree. It would be simple and economical and no real extra cost to the company. While still being strong specs for marketing.

 

[heretikeen]

I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself.

Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!

I think you might have misunderstood the thread so far.
People aren't slamming the specs, they are pointing out it's extremely unlikely for the specs to be this good.

 

[slclick]

I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself.

Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!

I think you might have misunderstood the thread so far.
People aren't slamming the specs, they are pointing out it's extremely unlikely for the specs to be this good.

I view this point as the specs are not as so much being disregarded as how forums operate...how people judge a bit too early....how it's far easier for many to be negative than optimistic. It really is a common SOP here attitude wise and Canon sales wise.

Announcement = disdain. Time + experience = praise.

fwiw, this thread is not about specs per se...it is about 'where and when'..check title.

 

[Sharlin]

As an aside, does anyone care to speculate why Canon's newest and greatest flagship PDAF system is not all cross-type? Specifically given that the 7D2 65-point sensor is... And the 80D 45-point system too, of course. Why didn't they move to a 7D2-like sensor in the 1D2 and the 5D4?

I believe that the very steep angle of the light makes it difficult to cross-tipe AF points, when far away from the full frame center.

But full-frame and APS-C AF sensors are physically approximately the same size - the AF point coverage relative to the image circle is much smaller in full frame than in APS-C. So vignetting should be an equal problem in both cases. Plus some of the non-cross-type points in the 61pt sensor are pretty close to the center.

I guess one explanation is that the 61pt sensor has other advantages (perhaps easier to upgrade to all f/8 points?) but its geometry makes it difficult to add the missing vertical sensors. So a compromise.

 

[Fatalv]

...

And in many ways, if someone would be willing to accept these compromises, would they be likely to buy a 5DIV in the first place - if the answer is 'no' then no cannibilisation of the 5DIV sales has occurred.

Agreed. I feel I fall into your above category.

I'm quite happy with my 5DMK3 and didn't upgrade to the MK4. However, I've been looking to swap out my 7D backup body with something that would get used more often. I feel this rumored 6D could fit the bill nicely.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

As an aside, does anyone care to speculate why Canon's newest and greatest flagship PDAF system is not all cross-type? Specifically given that the 7D2 65-point sensor is... And the 80D 45-point system too, of course. Why didn't they move to a 7D2-like sensor in the 1D2 and the 5D4?

I believe that the very steep angle of the light makes it difficult to cross-tipe AF points, when far away from the full frame center.

But full-frame and APS-C AF sensors are physically approximately the same size - the AF point coverage relative to the image circle is much smaller in full frame than in APS-C. So vignetting should be an equal problem in both cases. Plus some of the non-cross-type points in the 61pt sensor are pretty close to the center.

I guess one explanation is that the 61pt sensor has other advantages (perhaps easier to upgrade to all f/8 points?) but its geometry makes it difficult to add the missing vertical sensors. So a compromise.

When there are many AF points, they become quite close to each other, lacking physical space for "cross type" in all of them.

 

[Zv]

I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself.

Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!

I think you might have misunderstood the thread so far.
People aren't slamming the specs, they are pointing out it's extremely unlikely for the specs to be this good.

I view this point as the specs are not as so much being disregarded as how forums operate...how people judge a bit too early....how it's far easier for many to be negative than optimistic. It really is a common SOP here attitude wise and Canon sales wise.

Announcement = disdain. Time + experience = praise.

fwiw, this thread is not about specs per se...it is about 'where and when'..check title.

Ah! Fair point, my apologies I must admit I had been coming back from the pub when I wrote that and I seemed to have rambled on a bit! My initial reaction whenever I see specs listed is to immediately go in "oh here we go again with the 4K" mode!

But back to the topic -

I guess a lot of folk, like myself, are hoping that the 6DII retains the affordable FF label that the original is known and loved for. The 5DIII still feels like overkill for my needs. The specs listed in this rumor do sound a bit far fetched now I think about it.

 

[slclick]

I remember when the original 6D specs first came out and the camera was ridiculed by most people including myself. Turned out to be one of the most successfully popular cameras Canon made and one of my all time favorites. On paper it looked terrible but it just needed to be given a chance to prove itself.

Fast forward to now and we see a similar pattern. People are already slamming the rumored specs. Personally I would buy the 6DII if all they did to it was add the 45 point DPAF system, which is pretty much a given at this stage now that the M line and rebels have it. Everything else is just bonus!

I think you might have misunderstood the thread so far.
People aren't slamming the specs, they are pointing out it's extremely unlikely for the specs to be this good.

I view this point as the specs are not as so much being disregarded as how forums operate...how people judge a bit too early....how it's far easier for many to be negative than optimistic. It really is a common SOP here attitude wise and Canon sales wise.

Announcement = disdain. Time + experience = praise.

fwiw, this thread is not about specs per se...it is about 'where and when'..check title.

Ah! Fair point, my apologies I must admit I had been coming back from the pub when I wrote that and I seemed to have rambled on a bit! My initial reaction whenever I see specs listed is to immediately go in "oh here we go again with the 4K" mode!

But back to the topic -

I guess a lot of folk, like myself, are hoping that the 6DII retains the affordable FF label that the original is known and loved for. The 5DIII still feels like overkill for my needs. The specs listed in this rumor do sound a bit far fetched now I think about it.

+1 and because we all know Canon's MO those specs will most likely be over the top and we'll get a sensible body for a good price.

 

[glness]

This is certainly a relevant topic, but what I really want to additionally know is where is an update of the 5DSR and the 7D Mark II? I know Canon typically takes its own sweet time with updates, but they should be releasing the updates to the 7D II and 5DSR utilizing the new sensor technology ASAP.

Everyone wants on-chip ADC and they simply will have to wait until the next release. I could see 5DS2 coming out for the reasons I mentioned in my prior message on this page, but a 7D3 will not be fast-tracked unless Canon has some ominous signs from the sales force that the D500 is earning nontrivial market share. (I've seen zero reporting on that actually happening so far, btw.)

Generational improvements -- even if just to keep parity with the competition : -- is not an entitlement in a market where the market leader has so many other vital advantages (lenses, reliability, ergonomics, track record, etc.). In other words, unless they are losing business because of something, Canon will hook us up with new hotness when they feel like it and no sooner.

- A

I surmise you are right about Canon taking their time with 5DSR II and 7D III. However, I have both the 5D IV and the 5DSR, and I find myself now reaching for the 5D IV a lot more than the 5DSR. Yes, I would like to have 20 more MP for my image, but that new on-chip ADC sensor in the 5D IV is really an improvement over the older sensor technology of the 5DSR. I think 5DS/5DSR sales will begin to dry up until they make improvements to bring that sensor up to date. If Canon thinks otherwise, it will probably be awhile until we have an update for the 5DSR and 7D II.

 

[ahsanford]

I surmise you are right about Canon taking their time with 5DSR II and 7D III. However, I have both the 5D IV and the 5DSR, and I find myself now reaching for the 5D IV a lot more than the 5DSR. Yes, I would like to have 20 more MP for my image, but that new on-chip ADC sensor in the 5D IV is really an improvement over the older sensor technology of the 5DSR. I think 5DS/5DSR sales will begin to dry up until they make improvements to bring that sensor up to date. If Canon thinks otherwise, it will probably be awhile until we have an update for the 5DSR and 7D II.

Depends on which 5DS user you are talking about above.

If you are referring to the rabid enthusiasts who were screaming for on-chip ADC and sensor scores all these years, perhaps. They seemingly want all the best tech in one product at one point in time, like when the A7R II dropped -- that rig seemingly had everything for them. There are unreasonable folks who want that D810/A7R II cosmic stardust sensor that is simultaneously great for detail and great in high ISO; they want the best tech across the board and the 5DS is (I suppose) lacking at present vs. what the 1DX2/5D4 rigs have recently been given.

But if you are referring to the people the 5DS was actually designed for -- detail obsessives prepared to work in a studio or on a tripod to get the most out of the camera -- they likely won't belly ache about not having DPAF or the latest sensor tech and just keep happily snapping away. A studio / product / landscape photographer isn't going to give up 20 MP for +1 stop of base ISO DR the 5D4 offers.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

But back to the topic -

I guess a lot of folk, like myself, are hoping that the 6DII retains the affordable FF label that the original is known and loved for. The 5DIII still feels like overkill for my needs. The specs listed in this rumor do sound a bit far fetched now I think about it.

+1 and because we all know Canon's MO those specs will most likely be over the top and we'll get a sensible body for a good price.

I'm not convinced this will happen -- with 1-2 exceptions, this list of specs is on-target, IMHO. Consider:

• Affordable depends on your memory. Looking back wistfully at today's wonderful $1269 6D asking price is an unrealistic expectation -- Canon released it at $2099, and they certainly don't want to give up that neighborhood of price with the next version. So the specs naturally need to step up to demand that price.
  
  
• Canon told us their intentions here (either directly or presumably by leaking rumors): how many times did they state they wanted to "move the 6D brand upmarket"? :
  
  
  
• Since Canon and Nikon got into the 'entry FF SLR' market, the A7 brand has been much more fully fleshed out and Pentax is in the ring with a D810-like setup with a houseload of tech for $1,800. And lest we forget, the Nikon D610 follow-up is certainly coming. With Canon's oft-discussed reluctance to match competitive value propositions due to its brand/lens strength, they don't need to match the competition, but it certainly can't just rinse and repeat a '10% better' Mk II rig in this segment like they may have done elsewhere.
  
  
  
• The 6D-level market is shaping up to be a very popular segment -- FF performance at a non-pro-rig price turned out to be popular idea, who knew? I see it with (some) pros at weddings. I see it with enthusiasts who are elated to walk up to FF without needing a loan. I see it with well-heeled amateurs who used to shoot film and miss the 35mm format. I consider the segment pretty damn important as new folks to FF may very well entertain a system/mount change. So Canon can't be considered a 'me, too' in this segment.

So as much as I think this spec list is slightly overcooked (AF/fps in particular) and at a presumed $2k asking price it will surely corrode 5D4 sales, I think it's much more right than wrong given (a) where Canon wants to define the 6D line in the market and (b) the glut of new offerings it must compete against.

- A

 

[Famateur]

Disclaimer: I read the first few pages, then was away for awhile and haven't caught back up, so forgive me if this has been covered...

I've been thinking about cannibalization of the 5DIV if the 6DII goes upmarket. It's true that some would choose the 6DII instead of the 5DIV because it will meet their needs and cost less. Some of those might even be pros. That would be cannibalization.

But.

Most pros don't just operate with one camera body.

• Would a more upmarket 6DII that still costs less than a 5DIV be attractive as a worthy backup/second to a pro who primarily shoots a 5DIV?
• Would an emerging pro who would otherwise (reluctantly) buy a single 5DIV instead choose two 6DII's?

Both of these scenarios seem likely to occur at some level. The question Canon has to answer is, will they occur enough to truly offset cannibalization of the 5DIV? We'll know Canon's guess when we see what's announced...

Thoughts on these "second body" wonderings? Anyone here considering an upmarket 6DII as a second body to their 5DIII/IV?