Which second speedlight should I buy?

[Lawliet]

and keep using the optical trigger it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

With the YNs that have a slave cell (or anything that has something akin to the SU-4 mode, Metz 52-AF comes to mind) one can just use the RT system in manual/auto mode. Less randomness then ETTL, and the non RT flashes simply contribute at their preset power level, ideal for lights that don't require to much nurturing.

 

[Meh]

screw speedlights... sell them and get a nice strobe kit... Much MUCH more fuller and complete light... consistent output, battery packs available to take them on location... much more control... See the light... no pun intended =)

What kit do you recommend that's reasonably priced for a basic setup, reasonably portable, reasonably easy/quick to set up on location, good quality/value, etc.?

Hey meh... Alien Bee's... White Lightnings... both can work with the vagabound battery pack... and each 1600 w/s monoblock is cleaper than the 600 series/580's, and have higher GN's and a fuller light than the 600 and 580 at it's fully zoomed maximum output... They take me seconds to set up compared to mickey mousing speedlights with speedlights softboxes... Yes, they're bigger, but they are much better impo

edit... personally I splurged and got the white lightnings, but alien bee's share the same flash tube as the WL's and have housing made out of material that's nearly bullet proof. Drop one of these... you may have to replace a $20 flashtube... drop a 580 at the right angle, you may have to replace the entire unit.

Why did you go for the White Lightnings over the Einsteins?

 

[unfocused]

How about sell your PWs and 430, then buy 2 600s.

Sometimes the first and simplest answer is the best.

I have railed on Canon in other threads for their decision to abandon 580EXII owners and I still think it was a shortsighted and ill-advised decision, but despite that frustration, I can't advise anyone with just one strobe to buy either another 430EX or a 580EXII.

Since you don't have a big investment in speedliites, you are better off just biting the bullet and switching to the new 600 RT. To do it right, you will probably have to quickly invest in a ST-E3-RT so you can easily and cordlessly fire both strobes off camera.

As one who owns multiple 580EX II's this isn't an economical solution for me. Instead I've opted for the Youngnuo 622-C transceivers. But, you are probably better off cutting your small losses and switching to the 600 RT.

...Pros: future-proof, best Canon has to offer in terms of features;...

Just one comment: one might have assumed that buying Canon's top-of-the-line speedlite (580EX II) would also have been "future proof" since it was hard to imagine Canon just throwing those buyers into the ditch. We were obviously wrong.

Canon made a conscious decision with the ST-E3-RT to release only half of a product (a transmitter without a receiver). They could have easily accommodated their customers by releasing a full product (transmitter and receiver) but didn't. The moral of the story: no matter what you buy, it is only "future proof" if Canon wants it to be "future proof."

 

[Meh]

Just one comment: one might have assumed that buying Canon's top-of-the-line speedlite (580EX II) would also have been "future proof" since it was hard to imagine Canon just throwing those buyers into the ditch. We were obviously wrong.

I get where you're coming from but that might be overstated... not releasing a radio receiver is not quite throwing owners of previous Speedlites in the ditch. Your current flashes still work the way they always have and the 600EX is backward compatible with optical so you can replace a 580 if needed with no loss of functionality.

Perhaps they didn't release a receiver because they too couldn't get one to work reliably with a 580EX II due to the RF interference?

 

[awinphoto]

screw speedlights... sell them and get a nice strobe kit... Much MUCH more fuller and complete light... consistent output, battery packs available to take them on location... much more control... See the light... no pun intended =)

What kit do you recommend that's reasonably priced for a basic setup, reasonably portable, reasonably easy/quick to set up on location, good quality/value, etc.?

Hey meh... Alien Bee's... White Lightnings... both can work with the vagabound battery pack... and each 1600 w/s monoblock is cleaper than the 600 series/580's, and have higher GN's and a fuller light than the 600 and 580 at it's fully zoomed maximum output... They take me seconds to set up compared to mickey mousing speedlights with speedlights softboxes... Yes, they're bigger, but they are much better impo

edit... personally I splurged and got the white lightnings, but alien bee's share the same flash tube as the WL's and have housing made out of material that's nearly bullet proof. Drop one of these... you may have to replace a $20 flashtube... drop a 580 at the right angle, you may have to replace the entire unit.

Why did you go for the White Lightnings over the Einsteins?

Hey... Back in my college days, we were able to borrow/rent equipment from the school... They had the novatrons, prophotos, WL, and a few other smaller units... I grew a fondness for how the WL's worked... Einsteins had the same output as the 1600x series WL's, and the WL's were cheaper, i was more familiar with the flashes from using them a decade ago at school, and plus when I bought them, i built them into a price I charged a commercial client for a photo shoot and so essentially they bought the lights for me. =) I'm sure the Einsteins would be even better, but so far i'm loving my strobes... Super fast recharges, allows me to be more creative and not worry if the strobes are seeing each other because they are without fail... no regrets.

 

[Lawliet]

That is just so wrong.

Thats quite POV dependent, isn't it? Going by the feature list you're right; but as a photographer: getting more use/value from SBs then from their Canon counterparts when using Canon cameras leaves a funny taste...

 

[madmailman]

I already had one EX580 ii and I was looking at getting a second one. I am really glad that I found the Yongnuo kit. Instead of getting another 580, or even a 600 I got 3 YN622 flash triggers and a YN568 flash, AND saved myself $300. The YN622s so far have been very reliable and the YN568 is absolutely great especially for the price. I'm thinking of adding another 622 and 568 to my kit now. I never thought flash photography could be so much fun until I took my flash off my camera. I can really recommend the YN kits.

 

[Lawliet]

Canon are not innocents in this though, I well remember when they changed lens mount from FD to EF, then we were hung out to dry,

Well, I have no problem using FD lenses on current bodies - they mesh fine with current versions.
But using a single legacy speedlite kills the complete RT functionality, which would have been avoided by following the FD-EF example more closely.

 

[unfocused]

That is just so wrong.

Thats quite POV dependent, isn't it? Going by the feature list you're right; but as a photographer: getting more use/value from SBs then from their Canon counterparts when using Canon cameras leaves a funny taste...

No, saying Canon hung 580EX II owners out to dry is not a fact, every feature of the 580EX II is fully supported by the 600EX-RT, I really don't see how anybody could class that as hung out to dry.

Whereas you believing you get more value out of an SBwhatever with SU4 than a 550EX for around a $100 that has 95% of the functionality of the 580EX II is a personal POV dependent comment that would need to be evaluated on a per user level.

Canon are not innocents in this though, I well remember when they changed lens mount from FD to EF, then we were hung out to dry, but it all worked out for the best, sometimes harsh love works and I am sure Canon spent a lot of time discussing that major decision. There is no doubt in my mind, now with the benefit of hindsight, that Canon did the right thing then. I get the feeling they have done the same thing with the inability to use the optical and radio at the same time with the new RT system.

I suppose we have to agree to disagree. My point is simply this. Canon chose to release half of a product. They released a transmitter and no receiver. There is absolutely no technical reason why they needed to do that. Indeed, Yongnuo, Pocket Wizard, etc. etc., all produce transmitters and receivers or transceivers that combine both functions.

Canon, on the other hand, chose not to release a receiver, only a transmitter.

This is not, in any way, comparable to complaining because Canon products are too expensive or that they failed to custom build a camera to one's specific desires. This was a calculated judgment call on their part not to offer a complete product to make their previous top-of-the-line product compatible with a new model.

Yes, I understand that the new strobe can be used with IR control. I understand that the same features of the 580EXII exist that existed before they released the 600.

Actually, referencing the change from the FD lens mount is a good comparison to make my point. Canon has acknowledged that they only changed the lens mount because they simply could not continue to use the same mount and keep current with technology. They did it reluctantly.

In this case, there is no technological reason they can not produce a receiver that would work with older model strobes. They just simply decided to sell only half of a product. And yes, that does indeed leave a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[Lawliet]

Somehow I must have missed the requirement to disable AF on all EF lenses, otherwise my point would be perfectly valid... ???

Thats the crux: one single C legacy flash and there goes the whole RT functionality. Neither as TTL nor as a simple trigger like the PWII(I) or Strato. I.e. should someone consider using RT w/o going all in he's better off buying 3rd party flashes as they remain viable.

 

[sagittariansrock]

This was a calculated judgment call on their part not to offer a complete product to make their previous top-of-the-line product compatible with a new model.

Yes, I understand that the new strobe can be used with IR control. I understand that the same features of the 580EXII exist that existed before they released the 600.

If you don't see the contradiction in those two statements then there is no need to continue. I don't come here to argue but to help, I can't help you with your angst at Canon.

I think it is quite normal for people with lots of pre-RT flashes to feel frustrated that those cannot work with Canon's RT system and they will have to keep using the third party RF triggers or optical triggers. It is a small frustration though, since they don't have to give up anything- only they can't take full advantage of the new tech. While this is similar on surface to the EF/FD debacle (cannot use the new AF technology/ newer bodies) it is a much smaller problem in magnitude. And less costly to boot.
On the other hand, Canon might have had a genuine problem in making the older speedlites RT-compatible (or not) and who knows, they just might release something in the future!

I am curious though, how does using a 600-RT setup improve on using, say, YN-622s with a 580EX II? I need to make that decision, so my curiosity is not merely academic.

 

[Richard8971]

Easy. Grab a Speedlite 550EX. I love mine and it has done exactly everything I have asked it to do. I use it with my 7D and it keeps up with the 8fps with an external battey pack.

Oh did I mention they are a 1/4 the cost compared to the 580EX II or 600EX?

D