Why does 7D II seem COMPARATIVELY soft with certain lenses?

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#103
YuengLinger said:
dolina said:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alabang/15905528754/in/photostream/lightbox/


^^ Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS USM marketed in 2008.

It was mentioned by a member of CPS Europe that lenses announced 2010 & newer are designed for high pixel density sensors like the 70D, 7D Mark II, 5DS & 5DS R. All three bodies I mentioned share a 4.1 µm pixel (photosite) size.
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Beautiful! You used the 7DII?
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Yes, that's why I shared the images on this thread. ;)

To be honest I wish Canon started offering bodies without AA filters starting with the 50D from 2008 & 500D from 2009 (4.7µm).

I mention these bodies because Nikon came out with with their D800E (4.88 µm & without AA filter) in 2012.
 
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#104
Got some test shots with the 7D2+100-400II early this morning today. The combo focuses quick and tracks well. Test shots taken in JPG
 

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#106
For those who have shot with both the 5D3 and 7D2, do you shoot the two cameras at the SAME shutter speed, or do you increase the shutter speed on the crop camera commensurate with the decreased pixel size eg. 1/1000 on 5D3, 1/1500 on 7D2?
 
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#108
NancyP said:
For those who have shot with both the 5D3 and 7D2, do you shoot the two cameras at the SAME shutter speed, or do you increase the shutter speed on the crop camera commensurate with the decreased pixel size eg. 1/1000 on 5D3, 1/1500 on 7D2?
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No.
 
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#109
NancyP said:
For those who have shot with both the 5D3 and 7D2, do you shoot the two cameras at the SAME shutter speed, or do you increase the shutter speed on the crop camera commensurate with the decreased pixel size eg. 1/1000 on 5D3, 1/1500 on 7D2?
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Nancy, camera shake is not impacted by pixel size, it is impacted by reproduction ratio. Enlarge the same area of any sized sensor the same amount and you get the same impact from the shutter speed.

So the answer should be no.
 
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#111
NancyP said:
For those who have shot with both the 5D3 and 7D2, do you shoot the two cameras at the SAME shutter speed, or do you increase the shutter speed on the crop camera commensurate with the decreased pixel size eg. 1/1000 on 5D3, 1/1500 on 7D2?
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with the narrower fov its a good idea to increase the shutter speed accordingly. that's why auto iso tries to maintain 1/flx1.6 on the crop bodies and 1/fl on the ff ones.
 
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#112
tron said:
takesome1 said:
Jack Douglas said:
Marsu42, I think I've probably read most of the threads and it was still hard to make the decision, that is until the price was right. That really helped but still this keeps going around in my head. What is so challenging is user versus camera and personal biases. You'd like to trust a given person's judgment/ability but you never know for sure, although certain folk are very experienced, unbiased and trustworthy so .......

Jack
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Jack,

I have both the 1D IV and the 7D II.
Go back to your cropping thread for birds. That is what it comes down to.

With the 7D II when it hits you will have a super sharp image that you can crop tighter with greater detail. It adds a bit to that ability. It will give you a bit more sharpness to work with than the 1D IV.

With the 1D IV you will have a body with an AF system that hardly misses. Your little flying bird, it will be easier to get this pic with the 1D IV. If you miss the shot with the 7D II, how much resolution does the 7D II have? It has none.

I took the 7D II out this weekend, I had one situation presented itself with a running bird that I wish I had the 1D IV.
The 7D II missed and it would have been the shot of the day. But for the rest of the day the 7D II did just fine.
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This is really useful information. Do you have an opinion of 5D3 in comparison with 7DII and 1DIV for birds in flight? That would be very interesting for me to know.
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Because of the frame rate I never considered the 5D III for BIF. That is why I never bought it over the 1D IV.
I have an opinion, which is the 1D IV would be better because of frame rate. From what I have read I believe the 5D III would track very well. Probably not on par with the 1Dx but close.
 
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#114
YuengLinger said:
dolina said:
YuengLinger,


https://www.flickr.com/photos/alabang/16375360019/in/photostream/lightbox/


^^ Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM marketed in 2008
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Thanks again! These are all very convincing.
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It's not just the camera. I'm beginning to think Paulo could get a great photo using a pinhole camera.
 
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#115
dcm said:
It's not just the camera. I'm beginning to think Paulo could get a great photo using a pinhole camera.
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You flatter me sir. I am glad I got a good copy of the body.

YuengLinger said:
Thanks again! These are all very convincing.
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Anytime!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/alabang/16375523449/in/photostream/lightbox/

^^ Carl Zeiss Planar T* 1,4/50 ZE marketed in 2008.
 
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#116
YuengLinger said:
Hector1970 said:
A very interesting conversation for me because I have been pretty disappointed with the 7D Mark II.
I have very good eyesight and the view through the viewfinder and a 100-400 L II is really very good.
The camera looks as if it's locking on focus extremely well.
The photos however I am finding are disappointing.
I would say quality wise no better than my old 500D.
I had though APS-C sensors had come along way since the 500D but it doesn't seem so with my copy of the 7D Mark II.
It's a lack of resolved detail I'm finding most disappointing.
Maybe I'm spoiled by the 5D Mark III but I find the pixels seem to smudge into each other alot earlier than I am expecting. No better than a 500D sensor.
I understand it's a cropped sensor but I thought at 20+ MP it would resolve detail better.
Photos do look a bit soft compared to how they seemed through the viewfinder.
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Could these issues be caused by an AA filter or something similar that was intended to smooth out noise at higher ISO's? Or maybe something in the in-camera processing of the image? I can't imagine the actual sensor tech has taken a step back...

(I know this question in various forms has already been asked in this thread, but I was hoping some our more engineering enlightened members might chime in. ;) )
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Almost certainly the AA filter softens the image which requires post sharpening either in or out of camera. However the AA filter will not affect AF, at least with phase detect AF it wont. Most of the issues are with AF problems.

AA filters were introduced to reduce moire patterns, particularly in video. If you shoot mostly wildlife and natural landscapes moire is not an issue...though you can get it on feathers of birds in some situations. The AA filter seems particularly strong on the 7D2 and could be due to the smaller pixel pitch and their anti-moire requirements.
 
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#117
I guess I knew but hadn't been focusing on it and kind of forgot. Older cameras have very significant AF lens dependency and on this basis the 1D Mark IV should be blown away by the 7D Mark II. For those wondering about the 1D Mark IV attached is the manual quote. Quite restrictive by F5.6 and restricted to center only horizontal sensitive at F8 - that's not anything to brag about and doesn't match the 7D Mark II.

Jack
 

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#118
Jack Douglas said:
I guess I knew but hadn't been focusing on it and kind of forgot. Older cameras have very significant AF lens dependency and on this basis the 1D Mark IV should be blown away by the 7D Mark II. For those wondering about the 1D Mark IV attached is the manual quote. Quite restrictive by F5.6 and restricted to center only horizontal sensitive at F8 - that's not anything to brag about and doesn't match the 7D Mark II.

Jack
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The 7D Mark II may be specked a bit better. But what you are referencing is similar.
If you haven't looked start on page 100 of the 7D II manual, it has similar limitations.
 
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#120
Jack Douglas said:
I guess I knew but hadn't been focusing on it and kind of forgot. Older cameras have very significant AF lens dependency and on this basis the 1D Mark IV should be blown away by the 7D Mark II. For those wondering about the 1D Mark IV attached is the manual quote. Quite restrictive by F5.6 and restricted to center only horizontal sensitive at F8 - that's not anything to brag about and doesn't match the 7D Mark II.

Jack
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Also go to Page 220 #7 Spot AF in the 1D IV manual. I think you will find this very useful for sitting birds and small subjects.
 
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