msm said:Larsskv said:dilbert said:Larsskv said:...dilbert said:Larsskv said:...
Or, like we Canon users can do, sell the old camera for a noticable amount, making the upgrade affordable.
It is an attempt to "trade in" an old camera for a new except that the camera dealer doesn't want your old camera (or would offer very little for it.)
The only reason you sell the old camera for a reasonable amount is that people perceive the old one to still be worth something.
This "selling the old camera" is a large part of the reason behind everyone wanting features to not increase too much from camera to camera: the newer one being not too different means the older one seems like it is worth more. Hence lots of people wanting "8fps/22MP" - it isn't just the "8fps" people want but they also want the number of megapixels to be close to the same as their 5D2/5D3.
The main problem is people who purchase second hand cameras pay way too much for them (in general.)
The Canons are worth something used because they are good at taking pictures, ergonomic, user friendly, and people expect them to be working even if the warranty period is out.
...
But they're old technology.
A used camera that is 2 years old is a very old piece of technology. Would you pay top dollar for a 2 year old computer? It still runs Windows, it still lets you surf the web, etc.
Rinse and repeat with cars, TV, etc. To me, a 5 year old digital HD TV is something that I give away, not sell.
Personally, I don't buy a camera based on what I expect to sell it for. I buy a camera to use. My challenge is to make sure that I get $1000 or $2000 or $3000 worth of value out of it before I buy the next one.
How much does a used car cost (proportionally) after being used for 1 year?
How much does a used car cost (proportionally) after being used for 2 years?
Does anyone buy a new car based on what they'll sell it for when they're done?
The market for used Canon gear disagree with you. Here in Norway, a 4 year old 5D3 sells for more than twice as much as a 1 1/2 year old A7.
If money is a concern, which I guess it is for most of us, resale value matters, and I find it foolish to state otherwise.
Yep and seeing how a new 5D3 actually sells for 3x the cost of a new A7 here in Norway I can't really see you building a very strong case here for your claim that Canon holds second hand value better.
And seeing that the 5D3 is due for an update soon that value might be about to take a big dive too.
Larsskv said:msm said:Larsskv said:dilbert said:Larsskv said:...dilbert said:Larsskv said:...
Or, like we Canon users can do, sell the old camera for a noticable amount, making the upgrade affordable.
It is an attempt to "trade in" an old camera for a new except that the camera dealer doesn't want your old camera (or would offer very little for it.)
The only reason you sell the old camera for a reasonable amount is that people perceive the old one to still be worth something.
This "selling the old camera" is a large part of the reason behind everyone wanting features to not increase too much from camera to camera: the newer one being not too different means the older one seems like it is worth more. Hence lots of people wanting "8fps/22MP" - it isn't just the "8fps" people want but they also want the number of megapixels to be close to the same as their 5D2/5D3.
The main problem is people who purchase second hand cameras pay way too much for them (in general.)
The Canons are worth something used because they are good at taking pictures, ergonomic, user friendly, and people expect them to be working even if the warranty period is out.
...
But they're old technology.
A used camera that is 2 years old is a very old piece of technology. Would you pay top dollar for a 2 year old computer? It still runs Windows, it still lets you surf the web, etc.
Rinse and repeat with cars, TV, etc. To me, a 5 year old digital HD TV is something that I give away, not sell.
Personally, I don't buy a camera based on what I expect to sell it for. I buy a camera to use. My challenge is to make sure that I get $1000 or $2000 or $3000 worth of value out of it before I buy the next one.
How much does a used car cost (proportionally) after being used for 1 year?
How much does a used car cost (proportionally) after being used for 2 years?
Does anyone buy a new car based on what they'll sell it for when they're done?
The market for used Canon gear disagree with you. Here in Norway, a 4 year old 5D3 sells for more than twice as much as a 1 1/2 year old A7.
If money is a concern, which I guess it is for most of us, resale value matters, and I find it foolish to state otherwise.
Yep and seeing how a new 5D3 actually sells for 3x the cost of a new A7 here in Norway I can't really see you building a very strong case here for your claim that Canon holds second hand value better.
And seeing that the 5D3 is due for an update soon that value might be about to take a big dive too.
Thank you for pointing this out. The release price of the Sony A7 was NOK 13500 in late 2013. At about the same time, the 5D3 was offered at NOK 19995 at Elkjop, here in Norway.
Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
Here in Denmark things are somewhat different:Larsskv said:Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
msm said:Larsskv said:msm said:Yep and seeing how a new 5D3 actually sells for 3x the cost of a new A7 here in Norway I can't really see you building a very strong case here for your claim that Canon holds second hand value better.
Thank you for pointing this out. The release price of the Sony A7 was NOK 13500 in late 2013. At about the same time, the 5D3 was offered at NOK 19995 at Elkjop, here in Norway.
Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
I do not care about about second hand prices and don't really want to discuss it
MickDK said:Here in Denmark things are somewhat different:Larsskv said:Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
Used A7: 5700 DKK (original price in 2013 was 13500 DKK, new price today 9000 DKK)
Used 5D3: 9000 DKK (original price in 2012 was 25000 DKK, new price today 21000 DKK)
quod said:He was referring to clowns like you.neuroanatomist said:dilbert said:Fools and their money are easily parted.
So, you're destitute?
neuroanatomist said:msm said:Larsskv said:msm said:Yep and seeing how a new 5D3 actually sells for 3x the cost of a new A7 here in Norway I can't really see you building a very strong case here for your claim that Canon holds second hand value better.
Thank you for pointing this out. The release price of the Sony A7 was NOK 13500 in late 2013. At about the same time, the 5D3 was offered at NOK 19995 at Elkjop, here in Norway.
Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
I do not care about about second hand prices and don't really want to discuss it
Ahhh, so when the actual number do indeed show he had a case, you 'do not care about' it and 'don't really want to discuss it.'
: : : : : : : :
msm said:neuroanatomist said:msm said:Larsskv said:msm said:Yep and seeing how a new 5D3 actually sells for 3x the cost of a new A7 here in Norway I can't really see you building a very strong case here for your claim that Canon holds second hand value better.
Thank you for pointing this out. The release price of the Sony A7 was NOK 13500 in late 2013. At about the same time, the 5D3 was offered at NOK 19995 at Elkjop, here in Norway.
Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
I do not care about about second hand prices and don't really want to discuss it
Ahhh, so when the actual number do indeed show he had a case, you 'do not care about' it and 'don't really want to discuss it.'
: : : : : : : :
Oh, did he have a case? Lets look at the prices. He cherry picked the highest price of the A7 and the lowest price of the 5D3 to try to make his case and you swallowed it "hook line and sinker" to use your words:
http://www.prisguide.no/produkt/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-156065#anchor-price-follow
http://www.prisguide.no/produkt/sony-alpha-a7-195823#anchor-price-follow
From these graphs it can be easily seen that over time:
The cheapest prices they sold for were: 9k A7, 20k 5D3
The highest prices they sold for were: 13.5k A7, 28k 5D3
The average prices they sold for were: ~24k 5DIII vs ~11k A7.
So the 5D 3 has generally been more than twice as expensive so sorry but he does not present a very strong case. And neither do you. As usual.
msm said:neuroanatomist said:msm said:Larsskv said:msm said:Yep and seeing how a new 5D3 actually sells for 3x the cost of a new A7 here in Norway I can't really see you building a very strong case here for your claim that Canon holds second hand value better.
Thank you for pointing this out. The release price of the Sony A7 was NOK 13500 in late 2013. At about the same time, the 5D3 was offered at NOK 19995 at Elkjop, here in Norway.
Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
I do not care about about second hand prices and don't really want to discuss it
Ahhh, so when the actual number do indeed show he had a case, you 'do not care about' it and 'don't really want to discuss it.'
: : : : : : : :
Oh, did he have a case? Lets look at the prices. He cherry picked the highest price of the A7 and the lowest price of the 5D3 to try to make his case and you swallowed it "hook line and sinker" to use your words:
http://www.prisguide.no/produkt/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-156065#anchor-price-follow
http://www.prisguide.no/produkt/sony-alpha-a7-195823#anchor-price-follow
From these graphs it can be easily seen that over time:
The cheapest prices they sold for were: 9k A7, 20k 5D3
The highest prices they sold for were: 13.5k A7, 28k 5D3
The average prices they sold for were: ~24k 5DIII vs ~11k A7.
So the 5D 3 has generally been more than twice as expensive so sorry but he does not present a very strong case. And neither do you. As usual.
msm said:neuroanatomist said:msm said:Larsskv said:msm said:Yep and seeing how a new 5D3 actually sells for 3x the cost of a new A7 here in Norway I can't really see you building a very strong case here for your claim that Canon holds second hand value better.
Thank you for pointing this out. The release price of the Sony A7 was NOK 13500 in late 2013. At about the same time, the 5D3 was offered at NOK 19995 at Elkjop, here in Norway.
Today, you can buy a used A7 for NOK 6000, and the 5DIII goes for NOK 15000. Point taken?
I do not care about about second hand prices and don't really want to discuss it
Ahhh, so when the actual number do indeed show he had a case, you 'do not care about' it and 'don't really want to discuss it.'
: : : : : : : :
Oh, did he have a case? Lets look at the prices. He cherry picked the highest price of the A7 and the lowest price of the 5D3 to try to make his case and you swallowed it "hook line and sinker" to use your words:
http://www.prisguide.no/produkt/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-156065#anchor-price-follow
http://www.prisguide.no/produkt/sony-alpha-a7-195823#anchor-price-follow
From these graphs it can be easily seen that over time:
The cheapest prices they sold for were: 9k A7, 20k 5D3
The highest prices they sold for were: 13.5k A7, 28k 5D3
The average prices they sold for were: ~24k 5DIII vs ~11k A7.
So the 5D 3 has generally been more than twice as expensive so sorry but he does not present a very strong case. And neither do you. As usual.
Apop said:He did get a lot of practise not presenting strong cases
neuroanatomist said:So in a much larger market than Norway, the 5DIII has held value a bit better.
dilbert said:A used camera that is 2 years old is a very old piece of technology. Would you pay top dollar for a 2 year old computer? It still runs Windows, it still lets you surf the web, etc.
Rinse and repeat with cars, TV, etc. To me, a 5 year old digital HD TV is something that I give away, not sell.
3kramd5 said:https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/sony-goes-world-class-the-24-70mm-f2-8-gm-mtf-and-variance-tests/
But wait, I thought the mount didn't support quality lenses!
3kramd5 said:https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/sony-goes-world-class-the-24-70mm-f2-8-gm-mtf-and-variance-tests/
But wait, I thought the mount didn't support quality lenses!
neuroanatomist said:Apop said:He did get a lot of practise not presenting strong cases
After a quick perusal of your 'contributions' here (I use the term loosely), I can't find an example of when you actually helped another member, answered a technical question, etc. Plenty of requests from you for advice and help from others, though.
Since you're fond of pictures...