Wildlife shooting 5DIII vs. proposed 7D II

[ishdakuteb]

Ishdakuteb, those are some nice portrait shots!

thanks... i am still learning and trying my best to improve my knowledge about shooting techniques as much as i can everyday after work, ignoring everything but camera

 

[Rienzphotoz]

If the 7D II comes out with 24.1 megapixels, would a similarly cropped shot with a 5D III (containing a smaller number of larger pixels) have less noise when enlarged? Would it be sharper? I am considering getting the canon 400mm 2.8 IS II and wondered whether there would be any benefit to shooting with the proposed 7D II versus my 5D III. Any help would be appreciated.

When you crop an image from 5D MK III, to get the same FOV as 7D, your image will preserve less than 10 megapixels of detail ... whereas, even the current 7D will give you full 18 Megapixels of detail, so I'd safely assume that the 7D II images will be sharper than a cropped image (to match 7D II FOV) from 5D MK III.
If reach is what I am looking for, I always use my crop sensor DSLR.

 

[vbi]

Have to say that the image quality with a borrowed 5D mkii and new 300 lens was outstanding even with the new 1.4 extender. There was no difference even viewing at 100%. My old mk1 lens and extender was not able to reach these dizzy heights.
Anybody else had any experience with the 300mkii/1.4 mkiii extender?

I think there is your problem. The 7D with it's smaller photosites is far more demanding on lenses than anything else in the Canon range. In effect it's sensor is equivalent to a 46MP FF and as a result the 7D requires the very best lenses to really perform. Putting an extender on the 300 may just deteriorate the 300's IQ to the point where it simply isn't good enough for the 7D.

Of course, the 5D will be far less demanding on the IQ of the 300 plus extender as the photosites are so much larger.

Best solution...get the 500 F4 Mk2 for your 7D...fabulous reach and IQ combination. IMHO

 

[garyknrd]

I have a similar dilemma, I want to know if the 5d mkiii will be a better option than the proposed 7d mkii. I am more concerned with image quality. Having just got the new canon 300f2.8 mkii my existing 7d is found wanting. Will I get a better image with full frame or should I wait for the new 7d mkii. My main photographic needs are wildlife.

I had the exact same thing happen to me. I bought the new 300 II and it just was a night mare on the 7D. I am not sure what to do. Very frustrating and expensive. I finally bought an old mark IV and it helped some. But it is just not that good a lens on the 7D. People think I am crazy. Maybe I am, but the new one is not working for me.

 

[Kernuak]

Someone I know was having similar problems with the 300 f/2.8 MkII and extender on the 7D. After spending quite a bit of time doing AFMA (which he hadn't heard of) though, he managed to get it to perform well. There are quite a few variables when performing AFMA and you need to get those variables right for what you mainly shoot. Choose the wrong distance for AFMA and it could actually make it worse.

 

[garyknrd]

Thanks, Kernuak

You know I actually loved the 7D and used it until I had problems with the 300 II and T.C. That thing will resolve fine detail. It is actually amazing. I changed to a IV about two weeks ago. And it is a very good camera also. The AF makes it great IMO. The 7D took me about 3 months to get used too. Before I really started to get the results I thought it should give. Kinda hard for me to learn how to shoot with it.
I personally cannot wait until the 7D II comes out. If it has a good AF system I will be in heaven.
I am a birder. And crop heavily most of the time.
www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos

 

[CarlTN]

Gary, nice work, I especially like the White bellied Redstart. "Birdsthatfart.com"? Hahahah ;D

What do you think of the sharpness I got on this top one, center cropped to 100%, ISO 1000, on a digital crop camera built by the ancient Sumerians before the last ice age ended.

I know the focus is a bit off on the eye, but the tail and wings are sharper. I just snapped this handheld on a zoom lens at 200mm with no IS, wide open at f/4.

Please do not criticize the composition of the finch, I know it's lame to shoot birds on feeders! I'm the opposite of a bird expert!! And obviously I don't know when to go outside, it's always getting dark! I'm just showing this one because I recently shot it and tweaked it this evening.

Below it is a heron image I submitted to a magazine's website about two years ago. It's also handheld with no IS, with a 135 f/2 + 2.0x ii TC, scaled down a bit.

The bottom was shot with a 1D4 and 300 mm f/4 IS, at ISO 6400, fall 2012.

 

[CarlTN]

Ishdakuteb, those are some nice portrait shots!

thanks... i am still learning and trying my best to improve my knowledge about shooting techniques as much as i can everyday after work, ignoring everything but camera

Hahaha @ "ignoring everything but camera"...sometimes not so easy to do!

 

[RGF]

Trust me - I have the inside scoop on the new 7D MII. I also sell bridges ;D

No one on this forum has the specs on the 7D M2, if it would ever exist.

However here are my thoughts on the matter (specs POOMA - Pull out of my A** or you call this a SWAG - Scientifically-based wide a** guess)

5DM3 - better low light performance
7DM2 - 1.6 crop so your lens are longer and you use only the center area which tends to be sharper.

Higher FPS? May be the 7DM2
Higher resolution? Flip a coin but I don't think there will be big difference

Best is to wait and see. If you need to buy something today (or very soon), then the 5D M3 is your best choice because you can have it today. What if the 7DM2 is delayed until 2014? Could happen - a year without a camera. In 2014 what you wait for next?

Get a camera and enjoy photography

 

[jrista]

I have a similar dilemma, I want to know if the 5d mkiii will be a better option than the proposed 7d mkii. I am more concerned with image quality. Having just got the new canon 300f2.8 mkii my existing 7d is found wanting. Will I get a better image with full frame or should I wait for the new 7d mkii. My main photographic needs are wildlife.

Have you tweaked AFMA? I've used the 300/2.8 L II on my 7D, tuned AFMA, and the IQ was phenomenal. That said, if you need something for wildlife, you really should trade the 300/2.8 for the 500/4. On FF, you need more reach, and the 300 just won't cut it most of the time. If you do birds, I'd recommend the 600/4 with both 1.4x and 2x TCs.

 

[jrista]

Even at ISO3200 my 7D usually beat my 5D3 for birds.

How so? I have a 60D and 5D2. Never in a million years will ANY photo that I take with the 60D at ISO 3200 even come close to the 5D2 at ISO 3200. Not even close. The noise and breakdown of resolution is terrible.

compare them at the same scale and not at 100%, don't just shoot two birds and compare, filter and scale the 7D bird down to 5D2 scale and then compare

the 7D sensor is a touch more efficient per sensor area than the 5D2 sensor, now if you are shooting landscapes and filling each frame the same way of course the 5D2 has less noise since the sensor is 2.6x bigger (although the 5D2 does band more in deep high iso shadows, so for particular scenes where very dark regions fill up much of the image the 7D image might look better even in this case, but that is a very special case)

The FWC of the 5D II is still three times higher than the 7D. Even though the 7D is slightly more efficient, assuming you fill the frame with the bird, the 7D will never touch even the 5D II. The scale factor is small, and the higher megapixel count of the 5D II would actually mean you get more pixels on subject than with the 7D...so the more realistic comparison is to scale the 7D image UP to 5D II size.

Assuming you only filled the APS-C area of the frame on the 5D II, scaling the 7D down to that size does improve things, but not enough to really overcome the significant full well capacity benefit the 5D II has. The 5D III is even better in this area, as it has a larger FWC thanks to an even more efficient sensor than the 7D. Even in normalized comparisons, the 7D at ISO 3200 doesn't quite hold up to the 5D II, and doesn't even come remotely close to the 5D III.