With the release of the updated 7d firmware, the writing's on the wall - it's hardly probably that a 7d2 is just around the corner if the year-old model gets a free facelift. So what's your take on Canon's strategy for the mid-price range?
Will there be a 7d2 at all?
- Thread starter Marsu42
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My take would be that the 7D2 is probabley not going to see the light of day until next year and that Canon are updating the current model so it can remain more competitive with the 70D when its released.
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No 7DII at all (unless it's FF).
The upcoming firmware update is a clear sign that we won't see a 7DII at Photokina.
But the longer Canon waits for the 7DII, the less sense it makes to announce it in the first place.
The $2000 price range will be taken first by Nikon's D600.
Later, Canon will (very) reluctantly follow.
So, if a 7DII is ever announced, it will be a FF camera, not 1.6x.
The upcoming firmware update is a clear sign that we won't see a 7DII at Photokina.
But the longer Canon waits for the 7DII, the less sense it makes to announce it in the first place.
The $2000 price range will be taken first by Nikon's D600.
Later, Canon will (very) reluctantly follow.
So, if a 7DII is ever announced, it will be a FF camera, not 1.6x.
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x-vision said:
Do manifacturers need to limate themlseves to a single model in each price bracket?
I think its easy to see Canon selling a 7D mk2 with high level FPS, AF and build at a similar kind of price to a FF model with superior IQ but lesser specs in other areas.
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moreorless said:
I've been asking myself the same question, and think: They don't "need" to, but releasing different camera bodies with nearly the same price tag doesn't seem clever marketing-wise because it will confuse customers, which then might go for something else completely. So I think Canon with its well-known marketing will try to avoid this if possible.
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Marsu42 said:
If we were talking entry level I'd agree but once you get up to the level of a potential 7D2 and a FF model at $1500 or more potentiasl buyers are likely to know what there after.
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moreorless said:
They don't, but they do it anyway. Usually they prefer to stick their products in between the competitors' instead of putting them in open concurrence.
As for the 7D2.... yes, I believe we won't see it this year. Canon will wait (not surprisingly) for Nikon to make its move, and then act in consequence. It's likely that we'll see a D600 and a D400 before Canon gives us anything big. At Photokina we will just see the 70D, I guess.
The good part might be that they understood that with this sensor technology they're not going anywhere, so they preferred to wait. But I fear it's the same mummers show with Nikon taking the initiative aggressively and Canon following after a while, releasing something just as good as to be competitive but at a ridiculously higher price.
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moreorless said:
I have to disagree, many people walking around with 7d bodies in Berlin are guys who use a kit lens and can hardly find the shutter button - but the camera salesmen talked them into getting something "good" while not getting the most expensive model (5d2, now 5d3). People who are likely to have a clue are 1d owners, but even there seem to be a couple of very well-off amateurs. This forum is biased towards people who are tech geeks.
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Ok, if given the choice, which of these two would you buy if both were priced at $2000:
[list type=decimal]
[*]7DII with an improved 18mp/1.6x sensor, 10 fps, 61-points AF
[*]7DII with a 22mp FF sensor (same as the 5DIII), 5fp, 19-point AF system
[/list]
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x-vision said:
Interesting question, you should do a poll yourself on this. Personally, for what I shoot I'd like to have the ff version because of the better iq (lens-sensor combination) - that's why I hope Canon will release something like this to replace the 5d2. But I'm not on a big budget, I guess the rest of the world would either get a real 5d3 or want an updated crop 7d2 for tele action shots.
But I'd still like to see a salesmen with a customer in front of him explaining why Canon offers two $2000 bodies, and what the differences are...
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simonxu11 said:
In enthusiasts' theory, with every new camera body
... that's why I did this poll, as a reality check before and after. Even with the 650d, many people were convinced it had to have a iq/noise/mp sensor improvement after so many years, so let's see about the $2000 "killer aps-c" 7d2.
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I think you overestimate the marketing angle, and forget manufacturing. Fewer models means less Stock Keeping Units (SKUs) to produce, track and distribute; this is a major driver for having as few models as possible. To marketing, having more models usually means that they can supposedly serve more customers. And they love that.Marsu42 said:
As an (off-topic) example, the company I work for have 30.000 SKUs (we're a relatively small company). More than half of those sell/ship less than 1 every six months, so a lot of the inventory just sits there, wasting money and stock space. Unsurprisingly, there is a drive from Operations and financials to get rid of those 15.000 non-moving SKUs. But marketing wants to keep a lot of this in order to serve the fringe customers. At an overall cost to the company.
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x-vision said:
I politely beg to differ with everything that you've said here:
(1) No 7D2 unless FF, well it could be APS-C or APS-H, why make a 5D3 competitor so soon?
(2) The upcoming firmware 2.0 for the 7D could mean that Canon will retain the 7D1 alongside a new 7D2, just as they kept the 5D2 below the 5D3, (btw if you want n entry-level FF Canon it is now the 5D2)
(3) "The longer Canon waits..." I think just about everyone on this forum would disagree with that statement as everyone is complaining precisely how long Canon makes them wait for everything!1
(4) The $2000 price range will be taken 1st by Nikon - you are presuming that Canon will launch a 7D2 @ $2,000 and not say $2,500 (recent history has shown that Canon has surprised people with their pricing policy e.g. 24-70mm mkII and 5D3 as well as 24mm IS and 28mm IS to name but 4 very recent examples)
(5) So if a 7D2 is ever announced (there will likely be a 7D2 given the immense popularity of the original 7D), "it will be a FF camera" - great that you can be so positive in your conviction, but you simply do not know this, nor do any of us, which is why it is marvelous to speculate.
The original 7D was the first Canon camera designed effectively by Canon users (5,000 professionals responded to questionnaires, then Canon synthesized the results into what we know today as the 7D) who were asked what they would like to see in a crop camera. In other words, Canon specifically designed the 7D as an additional pro-level (mag alloy + weather sealing, high fps etc.) body that gave photographers some extra 'reach' - even look at the users on this forum, at how many of them have a 7D as a 2nd camera. The 1DX consolidates the 1D series, that leaves the 1D1V vulnerable to be discontinued, that opens a niche for a 7D2.
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unfocused
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neuroanatomist said:
Pretty much agree, although given Canon's recent emphasis on ISO over pixels, I could see them keeping the sensor at 18-20 mp and improving the ISO performance slightly. We might see some improvement in weather sealing. I expect a touch-screen on the back but not necessarily a swivel-screen. Maybe live focus in movie mode, like the T4i (Gotta sell more of those new lenses).
Honestly, that's probably enough for me to upgrade as I'd like to have a second body anyway and I'm not at all interested in full frame.
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No way a 7Dii. An acquaintance works for Nikon and he opines ( not an official view but one I suspect reflects official thinking) that the future is mirrorless. He tells me a Canon mirrorless, high end is coming, and the future of the DSLR is pro only. If this is the Nikon view it must be the Canon view and you see Sony, Lumix etx already heavily in this boat. Canon now have the 1DX, the 5 Diii and the 7D all targetted at very different markets all at very different price points. Arguably all the camera types required as things stand at the higher end. I have a 7 D which has the reach, the fps, the off camera flash control, the EF-s lens compatibilty and while it may not be able to take pics in total blackness does OK at £900. A lot of hobbyists concentrate on wildlife and sports so for a serious camera it is perfect - a 7Dii at £1500 I think not. The 5Diii will be the wedding camera and the 1 DX the commercial pro camera. Perfect market segmentation . FF entry I think not also - no hobbyist wants FF ahead of 7D unless they are serious enough to go 5Dii and that like me is as well rather than instead. I am sure many on this forum will not agree but there is my twopennorth
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I just wrote the same thing in this thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7207.0chasn said:
Many people disagreed, but I have to say the future is so obvious because the only reason to keep the mirror around is the af systems, and once mirrorless af is competitive enough for joe sixpack it's bye bye traditional dslr. Only the pro bodies will keep the mirror for advanced af and because these people won't want to switch to an evf.
chasn said:
You're correct if Canon will keep the 5d2 around - but I don't think so, or they wouldn't have named the 5d3 as it is. It would be extremely unusual to keep the older version of any tech product around for a longer time if the successor is there. And then the question is how Canon will fill the price gap between 7d and 5d3.
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