you can't do WHAT with Mirrorless?!?

Quite a lot of negative comments in that article too if one cared to just focus on that sort of thing but the one comment that caught my eye was;

The GH4 has 4K Photo as an option, and this is where I have to be careful. I can only use it for certain things, for example I can’t use 4K at a football game as it is totally forbidden due to strict licensing rules

What's that all about?
 
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I own both Canon equipment as well as Panasonic m4/3. A couple of observations, although I am sure that you have heard this before:
Sports photography: There is still no better tool for the job than a dedicated slr like the 1Dx. It is just a matter of choosing the best tool for the job. However, you would not take a 5Ds or a 6D to a hockey game...
A trip to Europe with the family, my granddaughter's birthday and most jobs that do not require extra fast auto focusing or printing over 20 x 30": I would choose my GH4 or GX7 anytime.
A small commentary on slrs: I find it unbelievable that we are still relying in 70 year old technology, the mechanical mirror. The moment that either one of the two big guys comes out with a fast focusing full frame mirrorless (Sony is getting close, guys...), the mirror may rest in piece. And do not mention the viewfinder stuff. EVFs are so good these days, and can do so many things that regular VFs can not do that it is not an issue anymore.
 
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weixing said:
Hmm... may be using a mirrorless (with a super telephoto lens) as a spotting scope?? ::) Just wonder how long will the battery last??

I'd go with a different option...battery-free.

http://www.amazon.com/Lens2scope-10mm-Eyepiece-Canon-Angle/dp/B004GGBQAC
 
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faca said:
A small commentary on slrs: I find it unbelievable that we are still relying in 70 year old technology, the mechanical mirror.

I would hate to hear your opinion on the wheel. ;D

Camera manufactures use mirrors because they work, work well, are a known technology (little risk) and are affordable. That is not to say that a mirrored camera is best for all types of photography or best for all photographers. That's why there is a choice. One does not have to be better than the other.

As long as there is a steady supply of customers willing to pay for a mirrored camera, and camera manufacturers can continue to make a profit from these sales... mirrored cameras will stay around.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
weixing said:
Hmm... may be using a mirrorless (with a super telephoto lens) as a spotting scope?? ::) Just wonder how long will the battery last??

I'd go with a different option...battery-free.

http://www.amazon.com/Lens2scope-10mm-Eyepiece-Canon-Angle/dp/B004GGBQAC

BLINK as hard you like but you won't preserve the view.
 
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Aglet said:
neuroanatomist said:
weixing said:
Hmm... may be using a mirrorless (with a super telephoto lens) as a spotting scope?? ::) Just wonder how long will the battery last??

I'd go with a different option...battery-free.

http://www.amazon.com/Lens2scope-10mm-Eyepiece-Canon-Angle/dp/B004GGBQAC

BLINK as hard you like but you won't preserve the view.

THINK harder about the purpose of a spotting scope.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
faca said:
...most jobs that do not require extra fast auto focusing

A small commentary on slrs: I find it unbelievable that we are still relying in 70 year old technology, the mechanical mirror.

It seems you've addressed your own commentary...

I agree. The mirror is not the only reason to bail on 70 yo tech. I have not found a single mirror less that I can use reliably in full sunlight. Add an EVF and you take the dismal battery life down to a really unusable state.

The mirror and optical viewfinder takes relatively little power when the camera is in a state used the most, between shutter actuations. i will stick to my dslr for sports and wildlife as it's the only real option for the unforseeable future.
 
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zim said:
Quite a lot of negative comments in that article too if one cared to just focus on that sort of thing but the one comment that caught my eye was;

The GH4 has 4K Photo as an option, and this is where I have to be careful. I can only use it for certain things, for example I can’t use 4K at a football game as it is totally forbidden due to strict licensing rules

What's that all about?

Probably league rules. They don't want people who aren't paying oodles of dollars for broadcast rights recording high quality video of games.
 
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faca said:
A small commentary on slrs: I find it unbelievable that we are still relying in 70 year old technology, the mechanical mirror.

How about 150 year old technology, the internal combustion engine? ;) There are many examples of older technology that have not yet been replaced. They usually only get replaced when there is a compelling reason to change, despite perceived superiority of the new technologies that could replace them. It is usually a gradual change that allows us to use either or both during the transition. I use both about equally right now.
 
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Many forum members seem to be fixated on consistently pointing out that mirrorless cameras can't replace bodies like the 1dx.

"Shoot sports with 1dx, shoot action with 1dx, mirrorless can't ever match 1dx for focusing."

Well, great. Something I'm curious about however, is whether any of the naysayers has stopped to think about all the things that you CAN do with ML that you wouldn't necessarily do with a 1dx?

*hand raised

Okay okay, I'll start. LOL. I used to be one of those naysayers until I actually began using them extensively. Now that I have logged thousands of mirrorless images, my perspective has changed.

1. I can and do take my mirrorless rig everywhere. For those of you with young children, you know this is priceless.
2. Most people never bat an eye at me when my ML rig is either on my hip or slung across my body. When I walked around with a 5d3 + fast prime, many people took notice. Same with my 6D. This used to become an issue often times.

For example, I've been asked to stop operating my DSLR inside of the mall before as it is their "policy" to not allow it. On the other hand, I've since taken my ML rig into that same mall (and other similar venues) with my kids about 2-4 dozen times without issue. I have experienced this same phenomenon in numerous other places.

3. I hold up the ML cam to take a shot using the LCD and silent ES, most people don't even notice I'm taking photos even though I've just run off 20 shots.

Just in the last month, I've taken the ML rig to my daughter's first dental visit, first haircut at the salon, restaurants of all types, the mall, busy parks (with tons of other kids and their parents around), etc. No one has had any issues with my presence with the rig.

Try pulling any of that off with a 1dx and lens. Won't be so much fun even if you can get away with it.

The point I'm trying to make is, so much weight is put on ML not being good for this or that, battery life being bad, EVF sucking, blah blah blah. Most of the niggles are minor in comparison to what they bring to the table for many people like myself. Mirrorless has allowed me to document tons of things that I would not necessarily have been able to with my DSLR rigs. I'm pretty sure that the market niche I am in (dad with wife and two kids), is much larger than the fast action/sport shooter 1dx niche. Because of this, I think that often times, mountains are made out of mole hills when it comes to talking about ML.

For us mere mortals that shoot real life things that most people shoot, ML does perfectly well.
 
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One more thing out of curiosity, how many of you in here regularly use subject tracking AF features in your DSLRs? If so, how much of your shooting does it consist of? Lastly, how many of the millions of DSLRs in the world do you think are used to track subjects everyday vs how many simply use single point spot focus?
 
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JohnDizzo15 said:
One more thing out of curiosity, how many of you in here regularly use subject tracking AF features in your DSLRs? If so, how much of your shooting does it consist of? Lastly, how many of the millions of DSLRs in the world do you think are used to track subjects everyday vs how many simply use single point spot focus?

Can't speak for others but I use AF tracking nearly all the time for my photography, it's very handy when subjects move!

Personally I am not "Anti ML" I have just not, yet, found a useful one. When EVFs will work in differing lighting conditions with no lag whatsoever, AF systems improve to the point that it is useful to me and the batteries last a bit longer then I will happily join the queue to buy one - I am just not holding my breath!
ML cameras are just the job for many people/uses, just of no use (yet) to me.
 
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BIF would be more difficult...

It is not so much cannot as it is not as easy. For me, anyways...

On the other end, world class photographers are not limited by their equipment nor are they created by their equipment. (generally speaking)
 
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JohnDizzo15 said:
Many forum members seem to be fixated on consistently pointing out that mirrorless cameras can't replace bodies like the 1dx.

"Shoot sports with 1dx, shoot action with 1dx, mirrorless can't ever match 1dx for focusing."

Well, great. Something I'm curious about however, is whether any of the naysayers has stopped to think about all the things that you CAN do with ML that you wouldn't necessarily do with a 1dx?

*hand raised

Okay okay, I'll start. LOL. I used to be one of those naysayers until I actually began using them extensively. Now that I have logged thousands of mirrorless images, my perspective has changed.

1. I can and do take my mirrorless rig everywhere. For those of you with young children, you know this is priceless.
2. Most people never bat an eye at me when my ML rig is either on my hip or slung across my body. When I walked around with a 5d3 + fast prime, many people took notice. Same with my 6D. This used to become an issue often times.

For example, I've been asked to stop operating my DSLR inside of the mall before as it is their "policy" to not allow it. On the other hand, I've since taken my ML rig into that same mall (and other similar venues) with my kids about 2-4 dozen times without issue. I have experienced this same phenomenon in numerous other places.

3. I hold up the ML cam to take a shot using the LCD and silent ES, most people don't even notice I'm taking photos even though I've just run off 20 shots.

Just in the last month, I've taken the ML rig to my daughter's first dental visit, first haircut at the salon, restaurants of all types, the mall, busy parks (with tons of other kids and their parents around), etc. No one has had any issues with my presence with the rig.

Try pulling any of that off with a 1dx and lens. Won't be so much fun even if you can get away with it.

The point I'm trying to make is, so much weight is put on ML not being good for this or that, battery life being bad, EVF sucking, blah blah blah. Most of the niggles are minor in comparison to what they bring to the table for many people like myself. Mirrorless has allowed me to document tons of things that I would not necessarily have been able to with my DSLR rigs. I'm pretty sure that the market niche I am in (dad with wife and two kids), is much larger than the fast action/sport shooter 1dx niche. Because of this, I think that often times, mountains are made out of mole hills when it comes to talking about ML.

For us mere mortals that shoot real life things that most people shoot, ML does perfectly well.

1+ I have the same experience in many cases. If you've never had the experience to shoot with both, then how can anyone honestly take a side? I was amazed and excited at what ML could produce in comparison to my Canon gear. I love my DSLR's but also spend a lot of time with in the ML camp. Fuji has a lot to offer IMO.
 
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I was in Seattle last weekend visiting friends and afterwards ran into the May Day protest while walking back to my hotel. I just happened to have my E-M1 with me along with the 12-40 2.8 and 40-150 2.8 lenses. I put the 40-150 on and started following the protest. I have to say that I was a bit shocked at how bad the E-M1 performed in terms of autofocus. Granted, the light wasn't great as the sun was starting to set but the tracking performance was truly atrocious. Even with the deeper DoF provided by m43, I was seeing maybe 1 in 10 in focus. I've never been terribly impressed with the tracking in good light but it's usable in a pinch, but it seems if the light is anything but perfect then it's just complete trash.

Looking at the mini-galleries provided in the link, I was surprised to see how many of the shots are either of static subjects, have an extremely deep DoF, and are just straight up out of focus. Not a very convincing article.
 
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JohnDizzo15 said:
2. Most people never bat an eye at me when my ML rig is either on my hip or slung across my body. When I walked around with a 5d3 + fast prime, many people took notice. Same with my 6D. This used to become an issue often times.

I think most sports shooters will agree that the 'big camera' factor is generally a positive thing when shooting sports. People tend to get out of your way and/or ask for a card when they see a great white lens but seem much more happy to walk right in front of you if you're shooting with a smaller body.
 
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raptor3x said:
I was in Seattle last weekend visiting friends and afterwards ran into the May Day protest while walking back to my hotel. I just happened to have my E-M1 with me along with the 12-40 2.8 and 40-150 2.8 lenses. I put the 40-150 on and started following the protest. I have to say that I was a bit shocked at how bad the E-M1 performed in terms of autofocus. Granted, the light wasn't great as the sun was starting to set but the tracking performance was truly atrocious. Even with the deeper DoF provided by m43, I was seeing maybe 1 in 10 in focus. I've never been terribly impressed with the tracking in good light but it's usable in a pinch, but it seems if the light is anything but perfect then it's just complete trash.

Looking at the mini-galleries provided in the link, I was surprised to see how many of the shots are either of static subjects, have an extremely deep DoF, and are just straight up out of focus. Not a very convincing article.
I don't have the EM1, considering it but waiting for the goodies of the EM52 to land in an EM1ii.
but meanwhile, a protest march isn't exactly a fast moving subject, is it?..
So, are you making the most use of your EM1's AF abilities?
Perhaps this link can be of some assistance:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=up8K_xd_iwU

If anything, EM1 should do reasonably well to AF the initial shot.
 
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