A new xD
The title of this post is the marketing name of a new dSLR.
The source says this is not the 60D.
Specs:
16.8mp
1.3x Crop
DIGIC IV
ISO 100-6400 (50-25600)
3.2″ LCD
19 Point AF
HDMI Out
Liveview
720p HD Movies @ 30fps
VF 100%
Weather Sealing like 5D2
EF Lenses Only
CR’s Take
A cheaper APS-H camera has always been a rumor. D300/300s/400 killer? Canon certainly needs it.
Wish list specs?
Hopefully someone else I know will corroborate this.
cr
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This would be more in the line of what im looking for. I hope there’s some accuracy and truth to it.
Any word on the frame rate? If it’s 8 I’d be a very happy camper…
The 50D is a D300 killer. Even the 40D IQ is above D300.
very nice.. maybe the choice for my backup camera :)
Anyone who thinks the 50D is a D300 killer clearly has never seen one. Canon’s strength is in its lenses. Nikon has taken a clear lead with its recent bodies. Fingers crossed things will be rectified with the 60D.
Change 1.3 crop sensor to FF, add better weather sealing (canon 1d series like), keep the MP count, and maybe increase the video to HD, and you get the perfect camera for me, something close to the famed 3D, heh.
Right now it sounds more like a wish list to me. I believe Canon should abandon the apc-h sensor format and move to FF (leaving aps-c to entry and semi-pro levels). The new and upcoming 1D seems like a breaking point to me, it’s a chance for canon to go FF with sports cameras, like Nikon did with D3. Unless they are more concerned about fps than the image quality.
Hmmm, but since it needs the more expensive full frame lenses, it would have to be at least cheaper than D300 to kill it. Is that worth it, just for that 0.2x gain in crop factor? That’s not even half a stop in ISO. More reasonable would be an APS-C camera to kill D300.
Seems like it would fit a good niche, assuming the price is competitive.
Maybe you should try a D300? I love my Canon, but I think it is a well known fact that Canon’s lenses are the star of the show, not their cameras.
Sounds more like a competitor to the D700 that the D300 (small camera for sports and high ISO). If they price it right between the two I think they will steal potential buyers of both cameras.
If it can really have Super high ISO capability as the name implies, and a fast frame rate as well as reasonable price, it might convince me. I really like my 5D MK II, but its not a sports / wildlife camera and wasn’t intended to be one.
At a right price this may be a very attractive camera. To be honest 5D sensor in weathersealed body + decent AF + sensor cleaning + 14bit + maybe video would do the trick.
At Northlight they had an image of this camera.
Here is the picture of this camera:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39108325@N07/3595616160/
the amount is not relevant, the percentage in area is. APS-H is 18.1×27.1mm DX is 15.8×23.6mm. so APS-H is 490.51 square mm, DX is 372.88 square mm. this means that APS-H is 1.32x the area of DX, which means its more than 2/3 stop of ISO, assuming a direct linear correlation between photosite area and ISO performance, which is not true, it is an exponential, so it would be more than a stop better than a DX camera of identical technology and resolution.
What seems weird to me about these specs is the 3.2″ screen, it doesn’t fit with the screen from the 50D and 5D mkII, and the screen is a good component to share to reduce manufacturing costs, and the 720P video at 30fps, the reason the 500D got cripple is becasue it has less outputs from the sensor and so it can’t move the data as fast, so it can only get 20fps at 1080P, but a camera with this much power should have no problem running 1080P and 30fps, just like the 5D mkII, which this camera would likely share a majority of body components with. I also find it strange that it is a 16.8 MP sensor, where did this obscure number come from? I like the overall idea, this just seems like a strange assorted wishlist of not unreasonable things.
That is just a 5D with the 50mm L as far as i can see.
I hope this rumor is about the 3D and i hope its true!
Would be cool if it has FF and min. 8fps.
But… why only 720p? Why no 1080p?
85mm f/1.2L look at the rear of the lens, the 50 doesn’t taper nearly that much
Strange specs for me with :
– A digic IV (why not V ????)
– 720 p at 30fps (why not 1080 ???)
– 1.3 crop …
For me this combination of specs simply does not make sense.
I would buy one, but I think alot of people will complain that they cant use efs lenses nor wide EF lenses because of the 1,3 crop.
I still think Canon should go FF with the XXD line. And market the XXXD line as their micro 4/3 line. 500D(grip) is already freakin small.
THE 7D!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would that make it a 5.7µm to 5.6µm pixel pitch at 16.8mp @ 1.3x crop?
The rationale for APS-H is fps speed and that is not even mentioned in the rumor spec. “Lord of Darkness” indicates good ISO spec, but FF would be more suitable for high ISO.
APS-H cannot use EF-S lenses and does not utilize EF lenses fully.
My guess is that Canon will abandon APS-H, including the 1D family (but keep the 1Ds).
My favorite part of this rumor: weather sealing like the 5D2. I’m not sure that’s a “feature”.
I don’t buy this rumor for a second.
yeah i think so too. 1.3 sucks for some reason. Just usefull for tele.
+1
OMG OMG OMG!! I take the 1.3 over the 1.6 anytime!
I hate 1.6 format and think 1.3 is the win in comparison. That being said…Canon has already stated they are killing off 1.3…
I don’t buy it either Tim L
I like it. Hope it will have an articulate/swing screen, I have recently realized how useful they are.
Canon’s strength is in its “BIG” lenses… many would even agree that Canon’s wide angle lenses aren’t as sharp as other brands (I mean they are, but others have also improved and outshines Canon)…
I like it, too. Therefore, it will never happen.
i wish this camera was FF an full HD then id buy it :D
I want a D700 beater. Extremely low light performance with high frame rate and accurate focus for less than $3000.00. If Nikon can do it why can’t canon? I have thought about dumping Canon for Nikon, but I love my many L lenses.
a 7D in a 5D body would be super nice, 1,3 is perfect for me i don;t really need FF
21mp at 4 fps is the same data width as 16mp at 5 fps. So I guess that’s Digic 4’s max. It seems to me that this is a 5DII with a APS-H sensor fitted. The increased frame rate is welcome and with that resolution, I can see that this camera will be a big hit with the wedding fraternity.
It’s nice to see that there’s a new AF system though. I wonder if it’ll work with f8 lenses (a-la 1D series).
This is changed when the new coating is introduced in Canon..
+1…regardless of speculation over what it will really be, let the waiting game begin.
If you compare the camera dial in the photo to that of the 5D/5D II – its different, more like that of the 50D…but hey it’s just a rumor :)
Nope, definitely just a 5D2 with the “5” photoshopped out and the “Mark II” invisible due to the lighting.
its not about fps, its about crop function/ reach.
XD line as FF, XXD as 1.3 crop, XXXD as 1.6 crop and XXXXD as micro 4/3 that’s more logical.
+1 i sold my 5D Mk I last year. and now i’m using 40D and 450D. i sold my FF for reach. 1.3 crop @ pixel density of 40D is enough. im a sport shooter, not a landscape.
did it mention 1 sensor? number of sensor is not specified, i think it’s 2 digic IV. full HD is memory eater, 720p is enough for home viewing. how many full HD devices are there in the market? most of them is just “full HD ready”.
I don’t buy it. But if 1D4 comes out a full-framed, it(7D) might be true.
I guess I’m in the minority, but to me 1.3x is the worse compromise – it does not have the ‘reach’ of 1.6x and at the same time FF lenses are not as wide as on FF.
If this is real, I’ll be skipping for sure.
this is a crazy statement. I’m a lifelong canon shooter that happened to have a d700 for 3 months while I waited for my 5d2. To make a blanket statement like “canon’s lenses are the star of the show” is nuts. The nikon zooms for the most part are better – at least their “pro” ones (except 70-200 – that i think Canon is better) with their 14-24 and 24-70 both being far better. With Canon raising the prices of the primes to insane levels the average canon lens that is affordable to the average 50d/d300 buyer is no better.
For years and years Canon cameras destroyed nikon – only recently have they had any kind of answer. The D300 is a good solid camera that is about even with a 50D and costs more.
Totally agreed. Furthermore, Canon does not even have a EF mount ultrawide lens that is comparable to the Nikkor 14-24. If they have an excellent 12-24 f/4 lens, I’ll be interested in this so-called Lord of Darkness. Otherwise, I’ll pass.
Perhaps, this is why Nikon is making losses? ;)
no they haven’t – ever. Canon reps will repeatedly tell you quite the opposite
JC
exactly, even the rebel gets 1080p and they expect us to fall for this 720p claim??
and the odd screen size too, as you note, makes no economical sense at all. I should also note, the odd screen size has shown up in a few other rumors over the years too, all of which proved to be well off the mark. I think some guy is having fun and tossing the 720p and 30p out there just to give the video people agita, hah!
holy crap!
Agreed!
Which makes the 50D a D300 killer.
2007 and 2008 was Nikon’s years. 2009 the balance has switched back to Canon in both APS-C and FF. D3x is overpriced but has the best IQ under ISO 400 equalled by A900 at a fraction of the price, above ISO 400 the 5DMk2 has the best IQ. Sony has exactly were they wanted with Nikon. If Sony stop manufacturing sensors for Nikon the latter will be doomed and it will be a straight fight between Canon and Sony for the number 1 dSLR crown.
Canon’s telephoto lens outshines Nikon by a considerable margin especially in FF. Nikon’s wide angle zoom below and upto 70mm just edges Canon. Canon has more primes than Nikon.
I would believe this if it would be like this:
Canon Eos 6D/7D
16.8mp, 16.3mp Effective
1.3x Crop
DIGIC V
ISO 100-12800 (L1-50, H1-25600, H2-51200)
ISO Performance 1 Full Stop Improvement over 5D MKII
3.0″LCD High Resolution
New 19 Point AF
720p HD Movies @ 30fps
1080i HD Movies @ 24fps
HDMI Out
Liveview
VF 98%
Body like the 5D MKII (minor changes)
EF Lenses Only
Really? I thought everybody agreed since Sept’08 that the 40D has better IQ than the 50D.
So I really dont understand why, today, we should start considering the 50D as a D300 killer.
The 40D, due to its low price, is certainly a better “killer” than the 50D.
it is not a XD line, it’s XXD line, successor of 50D. canon just shifted their XXD line to 1.3 crop. lol….
we know when we see it ;-)I like Dan’s specs, but how does an L lens work at 1.3?
The rationale was that it was the largest size die they could make without having to move the stepper and cause alignment problems. That saved a lot of money. Nowadays, the steppers can expose larger die (Canon can now do 50mm x 50mm with their new steppers), so the only rationale left is that APS-H is an established format that is still a bit cheaper to make than FF and that some people think it is big enough.
The same as on crop 1.6
I would like it to be:
for EF lens – 5 fps 16.8 mp
for EFS lens – 8 fps about 12 mp
or SRAW – 8 fps
3D tracking
Also improve the AF accuracy:
Low light (indoor) – hi sensitivity (remain)
Too bright (outdoor) – auto detect and reduce the sensitivity to prevent AF problem like 1D III
It does not make any business sense for canon unless they have lots of 1.3 crop sensors in their stock. So unless this camera gets the ability to use EF-S lenses then I’m not buying this story.
Canon will be better off with a 60d that got a better focus system and better sealing. But that will happen only after the D400 announcement.
I’ve been reading that the t1i is a lot better than the D5000 that nikon released.
and even if the lenses that nikon produces are better, which i have no way to prove or not, canon is a lot cheaper… and if the market cant really tell which one is better, im up for saving 700 (1890 vs 1190) bucks on the 24-70 of canon vs nikon.
Im totally digging a camera like that for 1500 bucks!!
I would buy that camera! i like the aps-h 1.3x crop…
Full frame is awesome but i prefer to have a bit of crop to get longer lenses 17-40 f4L, 24-105 f/4L and a 50 f/1.8
ive got my fingers crossed
you can’t mount EF-S lenses on an APS-H camera because of the mirror hitting the protruding rear telephoto group of the lens.
I just want a 14-24 f/2.8 with a red ring around it. regardless what body its re;leased with. Its been almost two years since Nikon sprung theirs, so I figure in about two more years Canon will have theirs out.
Stark Arts
lets not forget how much newer the Nikon 24-70 is than the Canon one, I’m certain that the Canon 24-70 f/2.8 II or IS, or whatever the next one is will beat the Nikon one by as much as the nikon one beats the current Canon one.
Nikon is very good at wide-angle lenses, Canon is not, Canon is very good at telephoto lenses, Nikon isn’t as good as Canon in this regard. That is their respective strengths, Canon’s wide-angles are about a generation behind Nikon’s and Nikon’s telephotos are about a generation behind Canon’s.
Simon, the tests I’ve seen have the Ds mkIII showing less noise than the D3x up till ISO 640, the D3x prevails from around 800-1600, and then the 5D mkII takes over from there. Also the Sony A900 is very close to the D3x, but is slightly noisier.
Lets end this foolish talk of a D300 killer, certainly neither the 40D nor 50D are D300 killers. the D300 is a professional DX camera, go the Nikon website, it says it right there. Canon does not claim the 40D or 50D as professonal APS-C cameras. So the 40D/50D offer slightly less features, namely in weather sealing AF, and VF, while significantly undercutting the D300, they are simply different levels of camera.
Im keeping my fingers and toes crossed ! i want this camera too ! hahah
A Canon 50D is nowhere near a Nikon D300 killer. Not even close. And I shoot Canon.
A Nikon D300 has 51 point pro AF….Canon 50D has 9 point AF that is one very small step above the 500D AF.
Nikon D300 has proper weather sealing….Canon 50D weather sealing is a joke.
I could go on…
I would love Canon to make a Nikon D300 killer, in the same price range as the Nikon D300, but Canon won’t ….which is sad.
Dave
well folks, with fingers and toes crossed you could end up handicapped, just let time do what it always does…;-) but it’s more intresting then the stock market news to follow this…uprading to a body like would mean another grand for an L wide angle lens then…sigma…or the 16-35 canon…3000 bucks…as my 30D uses the ef-s 10-22…time will tell…
maybe I mistakenly put the wrong question earlier this day: would a 1.3 crop show vignetting while using L-lenses?
Chuck Westfall has stated that the Canon 1.3 crop CMOS sensors were made to specifically target competitors 1.5 crop sensors on both price (you can make a lot of 1.3 sensors on one waffer vs FF sensors) and image quality (for the same mp you get bigger pixels).
The above specs would target the D300 not the D700.
Dave
A 1.3 crop would show less vignetting than FF.
Dave
Give it at least 21 focus points, 7 FPS (9 w/grip) and have Canon match Nikon’s Creative Lighting System and I might jump at this new model if it exists.
Until then…
oh yeah… and I don’t want to hear that it can’t be done (Nikon did it)
a) I like the vignette
b) that means Canon needs to make better lenses
c) you can remove vignette with software
d) its really only on ultrawide lenses that this is significant, which are the ones most hurt by 1.3 crop
Arrgh, I just bought a 5D Mark II ;) and this is the camera I was always waiting for since the 300D. In my opinion 1.3x crop makes perfect sense. Not too much focal length extension, but cuts off the critical part of the image circle. But I would not expect much improvement in noise (at least in RAW) it has a higher pixel density compared to the 5d Mark II. Anyway I’m off for some weeks traveling and wouldn’t have got it before…
Zac, I don’t know what you are talking about. Canon is not good at wide-angle lenses? The 14L, 24mkIIL, and 17TS-E (Nikon doesn’t even have one of these) are awesome lenses, and the 24-70L stay’s on one of my 1DsIII’s full time as my standard goto body/lens.
Exactly. The 1D3 is designed for sports not the 5D2.
Yep you called it Zac.
The 3D/7D myth is nothing more. Canon has used the same division lineup for EOS from the film days and isn’t going to add a new line/body. For film it was EOS 1v (now 1Ds), 1N RS (1D), 3 (5D2), A2 (50D), Elan (Rebel T1i), Rebel (Rebel XSi/XS)
The 1D is targeted to pro sports/journalists so fps is the priority.
This 7D spec list is pure fantasy/hoax, but to be fair the Rebel is really a 720p camera as 20 fps at 1080p is unusable – though I agree if this were to be real it would definately have 1080p.
The xxD is 1.6 crop, not 1.3, and the 1D mkIII (xD) is 1.3.
That’s not what I hear.
This 7D rumor is a hoax. Don’t get your hopes up.
People should try to understand the thinking at Canon Japan is they are the leaders/definers of the DSLR industry and they are not going to add new camera lines because Nikon or Pentax or Panasonic offer something they do not. It’s not going to happen.
I would love to see the 16-35L replaced with a 14-35L 2.8 and say buh bye to Nikon’s version.
Except for the creative lighting system that Canon doesn’t seem to be interested in (I can’t blame them) you could be describing the 60D.
It’s a hoax, there is no 7D coming.
He knows that. He’s saying what he would consider to be logical in the future.
Ah. Lots of things could be more logical, doesn’t make them reality though.
further clarification. contemporary nikon equivalent will be better is a general rule, there are plenty of exceptions, for example the EF-S 10-22 beat the crap out of the nikon 12-24 f/4, and the nikon was considered to be a pro lens and the canon isn’t
the examples i have for supporting the “contemporary nikon equivalent will be better” claim are the nikon 14mm prime, which was a bit better than the canon 14mm f/2.8L, series 1, not series 2, which beats the nikon. and the 14-24 f/2.8, which is a stellar lens, and beats the canon 16-35mm f/2.8L USM II, which is still a wonderful lens, (often my lens of choice)
disregard
David, I did not mean that Canon wide-angle lenses are bad, rather that, as a general rule, contemporary nikon wide-angles are a bit better. for example, the 14-24 f/2.8 and the EF 16-35 f/2.8L USM II.
TSE is a bit separate from the focal length, and Canon has always spanked Nikon with these.
I also love my 24-70mm f/2.8L USM, but, having played with the nikon it is marginally better. Of course it better be, since its so much newer and more expensive than its Canon counterpart. Of course, Canon will eventually release an updated 24-70 or equivalent, and this will beat the nikon lens. I did mean to say the Canon 24-70 is bad.
Zac, aside from the lack of 14-24 2.8 I think Canon is quite on par with Nikon’s wide angle offerings, and besting them with the 17 TSE as Nikon doesn’t have one. I think who makes the top lenses varies between the two companies lens per lens, not really wide vs. tele. I’m all for new Canon L glass though so I’d love to see some more wide L’s such as a 14-35 2.8L replacing the 16-35.
APS-H has no future in my opinion.
pros must have FF, semi-pros wanna have FF (but even 5D2 is on the limit of what they wanna spend), and beginners need something cheap camera – and APS-C fits them
I wanna see more FF products. even some simpler models – a 60D FF would be perfect ;-)
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