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Here we go again
I have received information from a CR3 source that Canon WILL introduce another camera to the lineup. The source has never given any specs.
I have avoided most 3D rumor spec lists because I haven't received anything from a great source. This is a combined source rumor I received today. I'm posting it because it is a complete departure from the rest of the stuff I usually get.
Combined info from 2 sources
The 3D will introduce new sensor technology that will bring new levels of dynamic range and ISO performance. The camera will be geared to the wedding photography market.
3D Specs:
16.7mp FF
7.2 µm pixel pitch
DIGIC V
Small magnesium alloy body similar to the 5D2
The camera will be priced above the 5D2. Possibly in the $4000-$4500 range with the 1D Mark IV.
Announcement for Photokina.
No information on autofocus system. Everyone hopes the 5D/5D2 system finally disappears.
cr
:O
New FF cam wiv increased DR?? I’d buy one tomorrow!! What us wedding togs are longing for…
This will be a great Camera. Hopefully it comes in the 3K range.
Will it be the Canon EOS 3D (all non EOS-1 dSLR) or Canon EOS-3D (with the hyphen; currently used only for the EOS-1D and EOS-1Ds lines)?
To everyone one making up CR1 “rumours” – if you wish to waste your time making up stories please at least make them spectacular in some way, invent some new technology, come up with a new idea, make up a spectacular technological breakthrough. Otherwise honestly it’s just a huge waste of time, there is nothing in this “rumour” that is either meaningful or interesting.
bleh. after i bought a 5Dmk II. lol. my luck.
Just curious: why is it that “Everyone hopes the 5D/5D2 system finally disappears?” Everyone I know who has one loves theirs. I’m looking to get one soon; is there something I’m missing?
It had better be around the D700s price point of $2700.
EOS 5D Mark II atofocus system. Not the whole thing!
I meant autofocus.
I love my 5D MK II, and certainly hope the system does not disappear. Its pretty unlikely I’d buy a camera with those specs for twice the price. Lots of 1Ds MK II cameras available for well under $2,000 that would be as good or better.
As a wedding photographer with a 5D Mark II I would agree that the AF is a little limited. Add the AF system from the 7D and give it 5-6 fps (priced between the 5d2 and 1d4) and I think that it would be a real winner for the weddings shooters. Personally I would also like to see the Raw+Jpeg buffer increased to about 10 frames as I find that the current 5 frames can be a little frustrating as you always seem to fill it up too quickly! Just my thoughts though.
I think the pricing makes a lot of sense, though I’m hoping it’ll be less for my sake!
If it has 1D-IV-like fps, something like that would cost more than the $5k 1D IV. With one Digic V, the fps will be limited to less than 7, which is good enough for most people (remember, with increased DR, it may also have to push more bits around).
So this will have a little bit of everything, with maximal IQ short of having the highest resolution, which will be limited to those who can afford (and actually need) the 1Ds IV.
I just hope Canon successfully delivers on such a beast!
sounds like a wish list to me, but I sure hope it’s true.
small body, FF, great AF, 18-21mp = perfect
extra DR = bonus
THIS would be the smartest thing canon EVER did….
They need this so badly right now, a FF camera that has a pro AF system with LOW MP…16mp or less. They need to match the iso performance of the D3s. And they need to make this available for less than 4k.
Canon I will be a believer once again if they release this, without this canon is nothing to me compared to nikon (event/wedding fotog).
This would be a great little camera. Although I’m surprised by the mpx number in the rumor. For 5D2 shooters, it will be potentially a reduction in maximum resolution, which would be a disappointment to many used to a 21 mpx sensor.
The price is startling however. And more importantly what could possibly be left for a 5DMK3?
I call BS on lower sensor resolution price combination.
If for some reason this IS the spec list, then there will be no 5DMK3. With this scenario I predict the 5DMK2 would be the end of the line.
More likely the 5D3 will move downmarket. FF bodies at £1500, £2500 and £4000 would make sense and the £1200 7D & £3000 1D4 dovetail in nicely. Would be a very nice and well-balanced range.
I have a 5D2. I do not love it. The autofocus system is lousy on several levels: The nine-point AF layout is terrible for composition. There are way too few AF points. Only the center point is a cross-type, and is the only one that can be relied upon in low-light situations. Canon insulted us by releasing such a sub-par AF system on a $2700 camera, when the 40D and 50D already had cross-type sensors in all nine locations. Compared to the AF system on the comparably priced Nikon D700, the 5D2’s system is a bad joke.
Bring on the 3D. The sooner I can get my hands on a faster, more responsive full frame Canon with great AF, the sooner I can stop thinking about switching to Nikon after two decades in the Canon camp.
Under this scenario, the 5D line could and up being “the full-frame Rebel”. If they can get the Mark 3 under $2k that would be really something… but that won’t happen until perhaps 5 years longer.
I HOPE the resolution is lower, no one will miss the 21 MP of the 5d mk ii. All that does is take up space, most wedding/event photographers never need that high of a resolution. In fact most photographers I know shoot sRAW on their 5d mk ii.
Lowering resolution is very important, so for canon’s sake I hope that isn’t a rumor and they really are making it 16mp on a FF body. This rumor seems too good to be true, specially because no one would buy a 1d mk iv after this camera came out… but i really hope it is true.
i’ll believe it when the 3D is released in march or april…
But, what would be left for the 5D3? I’m lacking imagination here…
The 5D2’s IQ (IMO the most important measure of a camera) is still superior to every camera in the canon lineup, save for maybe the 1Ds3 and that is a close call.
The price would seem to be too close to the 1dmk4…it would invite too many comparisons.
Either this camera would take away a lot of sales from 1dmk4 or else, depending on the specs, the 1d4 would seem better in which case this would be a dud.
I think if there is any 3d it will be in the $3000 to $3500 us dollar range.
Really I think what many people want is just the 5dii sensor in a 7d body / dual digic / 19 point focus…etc.
Yeah, well the 1D4 is a weird camera in 2009-10. I don’t know why Canon made it in the first place.
A 3D with these specs (so long as it reaches 6-8 fps) is going to eclipse the 1D4 for most but the most demanding sports togs.
and yet you knew the af was like this and still bought one anyways lol, you people crack me up.
At a price of $4000 to $4500, I see even more photographers moving to Nikon D700…..there really is not that much difference between 12mp and 16mp.
So I am hoping Canon goes to 18mp FF, 8 fps, Pro AF system designed for FF, all the video of the 7D, optional wireless grip of the 7D. All for $3300.
Canon needs to watch out, Nikon is coming with a 18mp FF D800, and since the D700 has pro AF, you know the D800 will also and the D800 will be $3000.
I hear you Jim. We’ve been in purgatory for a little too long. Time to move along. The 5D2 remains a great landscape and studio camera, but for PJ and weddings it’s a challenge and we lose too many shots.
This is my sugestion and a dream
Xs AP-C 3FPS 14mpx max
XT AP-C 4 FPS 15mpx max
XXD AP-H 6 FPS 18 mpx max whit very good Iso 6400
X D FULL FRAME 1 wedding 5FPS and 1 Sport 8FPS very good iso 12800 2 d!gic
1D Full FRAME Fast super AF very very clean ISO 12800
18mpx max
1Ds Medium Format 18 bits very clean iso 1600 no AAA Filter RAW MED RAW SMALL RAW Uncompresed JPG Medium Compres JPG and JPG
New L GLASS To Mach Resolution for Medium Format
1D Full Body
1DS Full Body
XD 3/4 body whit portrate shutter button release
XXD 1/2 body regular size battery grips
xt and xs line smallest boddies and battery grips
and Im Goin To continew Dreeming
And i wake up And Nikon Push The Envelope
D400 full Frame 14 mpx Canon Killer
D4 1.2 Biger sensor 14 mpx 25600 native iso and 9 FPS
whit 1.3 crop at 12 mpx 11 Fps
The 2 whit 3 stops advantage in Iso
I heard about Electronic Glass
a long Time ago the market are construction
implementation are a most
whit the tecnology and limits of fisics
can you heard about electronic glass for optics not for microscopic for the photography industries in the Field
the testing of new materials for making sensors the new black silicone and new super low black material absorbing light
im lost and i dont found the site
can som one iluminate me and give me the site
I agree with Justin; a 3d at these specs and price would kill the sales of the 1d4.
Sounds like a dream come true! 16.7 seems like a perfect balance for good high ISO while not too low for good res. That combined with a good AF and I’d be preordering the first day!
Cant be true. Makes 2 much sense. Here lately canon hasn’t been doing anything that makes sense.
It looks like Canon and others are now understanding that the mega pixel resolution war is nearing an end… we all now that 7.2MP was the functional equivalent to highest quality film imaging. At over 16MP we’re in or near what used to be Film based medium format territory. So it will be interesting how the low light performance will be, and will this be the beginning of true 16bit color processing using the DIGIC-V processor. Yes we will too, will be lined up for this Camera. I am of the club that presently embraces the 5D2 and the 7D. We had a number of 5D cameras, as well as 1D3 and 1Ds3 cameras and the 1D2 and 1Ds2… with a full complement of “L” zoom and prime lenses. Lets see if this comes in between in pricing the 3D at $3500, neatly between the 5D2, $2700 and 1D4, $4700…
JimW, Boca Raton, FL
This rumor should have been rated CR0.
It’s a complete nonsense from a marketing perspective to have a $4000 camera sabotaging the sales of the $5000 pro model.
No product differentiation is needed at this price level.
The 3D (or 5D3) will be a $3000 camera.
Exact features will be determined based on this price and the competition.
With those specs, this should have been the 7D, and current 7D should have been 60D. Oh well..
If this camera is supposed to fall in between the 5D and the 1D series, as the name suggests, it almost certainly won’t be 16MP. I simply can’t imagine Canon executives approving of a 16MP camera with a price tag above that of a 5D mk2. They still believe in the marketing power of megapixels too strongly.
But one can dream, right? I would love to see this camera so much!
All I want is a reasonably priced full frame camera with a decent AF system. The AF system on both 5d’s is a joke. The only AF point that’s reliable on it is the center point. I played with a 7D and was blown away by the AF system. If I didn’t hate crop bodies; I’d already own two of them. It does make me consider getting a couple 7D’s and switching from L glass to the 17-55 IS. But I really really ovemy 24-70 on a full frame. Please help me Canon!
Good specs but you can’t name it a 3D, b/c people will get awful angry when they can’t shoot 3D images like that Fuji.
Can’t name it the 2D either… “you mean it only shoots in 2D?”
:)
I’m considering either 7D or 5Dii right now. If this rumor firms up, I might just wait it out until summer.
Well that leaves Canon with the 4D. That sounds about right. Time (the 4th dimension) being required for the law of thermodynamics.
Reading this, I wonder what the specs of an upgraded 7D body will be like, some two years down the road…Let’s hope Canon will pass down some of those rumored improvements to it. Native ISO 12800…2x Digic V…18 MP.
Dan I know what you mean. I wish I could afford a 7D. I’d buy back my 17-55IS. Man I miss that lens. Best lens I ever owned. Still waiting on that 24-70 IS Canon… waiting…. ???
What the hell did you buy it for then?
Maybe the 5D3 has AF from 7D…..and
3D has AF from 1Ds4
Well, within a sensor size class and generation, IQ is not very body dependent. Current Rebels produce similar quality images to the 50D and 7D in many cases. Before the 50D, the Rebels even outpixeled the xxD class cameras of their generation.
Within a sensor size class, the differences are primarily in build quality, “pro” features (microfocus, frame rate, etc.) and the autofocus system. It is not too hard for me to believe that these very things will also be what separates the 5D, 3D and 1Ds lines in the full-frame size class.
It would be interesting for the “Rebel-ish” 5D to outpixel the “prosumer” 3D, just like the Rebels and xxD of previous years.
But will it have a direct print button? See ya guys, think I’m jumping ship and heading over to Nikon…
7D + ECF = 7DM2
:P
Seriously, I think Zone AF is a perfect match for ECF. ECF is not precise enough for single AF, but zone has enough wiggle room for ECF to work reliably. Both features are ideally suited for shooting action.
Let’s see what we learn over the next few weeks leading up to CES. There’s likely to be a stong showing of “3d” technology and stereo-imaging from many mfrs. I would not doubt Canon might reserve that “3D” moniker for a stereo-imaging equipped EOS-like system.
I wrote this to “the man” back in early October, let’s see what you have to say about this line of speculation:
Here’s a twist I haven’t seen anything about yet, straight from my imagination but follow
the clues promting my speculation.
Before the 7D was announced, lots of buzz about what was in the pipe.
FF didn’t show up but the 7D filled most expectations.
I think there is still room for another FF model to fill the gap between 5D and 1D.
I also think there’s room for something entirely new.
this COULD be called a 3D but that could add some confusion with “3d.” Or would it?..
.. and here’s what I’m thinking:
– Canon’s ditching PMA in favor of CES in January
– we all know CES is heavily consumer oriented, with a good dose of digital imaging
content.
– there’s plenty of buzz and already a few announcements of product for HD
stereo-imaging; cameras & display tech. and we’re likely to see and hear a lot more of
that at CES as the hardware and protocols are capable and mfrs need some impetus to keep
selling us more goodies. 3d (actually stereo) video is the next logical step.
– what if Canon were actually EARLY to jump on this new bandwagon with an SLR-like
product specifically designed for stereo-imaging? They could call it a “3D.” It might
use a FF size sensor, split into 2 sides for stereo imaging or used seamlessly for
conventional imaging. Or any number of other ways of accomplishing the same thing.
– Sony has a system of shooting stereo images with a single lens, perhaps Canon does too?
or at least a system using a single (EOS) lens-mount with 2 lenses feeding into it.
So, IMO, they may or may not intro a 1Dmk4.
or another FF camera, perhaps with some of the 7D’s features. Cuz altho we love the
5Dmk2, it’s still a full-frame Rebel to many of us and there’s room for a mid-line FF
product and price-point.
And there’s a wide open field in which to drop a new line of product for stereo imaging,
which will be a technology just starting to develop in 2010 and I’d bet Canon wouldn’t
mind being first in line to get a piece of that new pie. It’s likely to be more video
than stills oriented, I’m betting, because the market for 3d sports viewing could be
HUGE. needless to say, that OTHER industry that’s often an early adopter of new tech,
would likely make good use of 3d as well. ;)
Now, I just got a 5D2 a few weeks ago, when the price took its first good drop. It’s now another $150 lower from some suppliers so it’s almost like they’re looking to start clearing out that channel for something this spring or summer.
And I’ll re-iterate. The 5D and 5D2 really are full-frame Rebels by the way they perform. Rebels often have great IQ, but lack serious features and performance.
I’d love to see something from Canon that could compete with the S/N ratio of Nikon’s D3s. That thing is amazing! And give it a decent frame rate, more video options like the 7D and definitely a serious boost in focus performance with more cross-sensors and spread them out a little more around the frame, a whole other diamond-ring of them, at least a dozen more points, around the existing ones, for instance. Not that -I- would use them, I’m generally shooting slow stuff and relying on the center point.
As for the price… well ‘affordable’ is relative.
Will Canon kills two birds (5D2, 1Ds4) with one stone?
And if they release 3D with 1Ds4, they are killing each other.
So, I don’t believe this story.
I’m not jumping ship, but I’m saving up to shoot both systems unless Canon keeps the megapixels on a FF camera below 20 on a pro body. D3s with their 24-70 will be great to work with my 5D and 70-200 2.8 IS.
Were I starting out right now, I’d definitively go Nikon.
yup yup I agree. +1
Jim, I agree. I moved from Nikon to Canon because of primes. But 5dII has been a disapointment.
the gap between the market exists as much as people didnt believe there was a space for 7D, or even the entry level dslr market. Apparently, the general public is always WRONG. and while canon is providing more alternatives for consumers, i dont see the point of complaining, at all.
I agree, ideally the 3D will take the spot of the 5D right now and improve ISO performance, AF, and Frames Per Second while the 5D moves down to a lower market. Give the 3D a higher-end body with full weather sealing and move the 5D mk III down to xxD level bodies.
A 3D with a ~$3,000 price would be nice, while moving the 5D mkIII into a $2,000 price bracket would be great.
Maybe because Canon has limited options for FF
5DII or 1DsIII
a camera with a compromised AF system, banding, weak weather proofing.
or an insanely high priced pro body.
5DII should have had the AF module from the 1Ds or 1DsII, better weather proofing, 15-18 Mp and I would have gotten it in a heart beat.
I agree I shoot wedding and I need two things good low light performance and good dynamic range.
16mp is plenty and i would gladly take a drop in mega pixels for either increased dynamic range or better low light performance.
Right now dynamic range is a really big limiting factor. I tend to always use highlight priority mode, which well for the highlights but then I get really ugly noise in the deep shadows even at low ISO’s.
+1E06; perfect logic!
“3D Specs:
16.7mp FF
7.2 µm pixel pitch
DIGIC V
Small magnesium alloy body similar to the 5D2
The camera will be priced above the 5D2. Possibly in the $4000-$4500 range with the 1D Mark IV.”
Add full weather sealing & AF and metering from the 7D.
in the $2000 – $3000 range
and I’ll be a happy camper.
also,
If the price is near the 1DIV I’ll just get the 1DIV,
at the loss of 1.3x crop. :-(
I can see the 5DIII gaining only a new AF system and updated video.
I would sell off my 5D2 and purchase such a body.
>This would be a great little camera. Although I’m surprised
>by the mpx number in the rumor. For 5D2 shooters, it will
>be potentially a reduction in maximum resolution, which
>would be a disappointment to many used to a 21 mpx sensor
Pixel count != resolution. Like “bandwith”, “resolution” is used incorrectly more often than not.
Unless I’m doing something grievously wrong with my 5D2, 21 MP would seem to only have a real benefit over a 12 MP or evn 16 MP FF sensor for those who shoot on a tripod, in a studio with bright lights, at small apertures, relatively static subjects, and have a reason to crop *heavily*. For other scenarios, fewer but better pixels would seem to scale/print just as well.
I just bought a 5D2 and I am very happy with it:)
no need for a 3D. especially if they’re going
to name it 3D..
“I simply can’t imagine Canon executives approving of a 16MP camera with a price tag above that of a 5D mk2.”
You mean like the 1D Mark IV?
Personally I doubt Canon would release a stereo (i.e. 3-D) SLR.
They might open up the firmware to allow cameras to be genlocked and the image inverted though.
That way you could shoot 3-D with two Canon SLRs and this would mean Canon could sell you extra bodies and extra lenses too.
I keep hearing that Canon is releasing a Compact Flash based video camera in 2010. However no one will let out of the bag if it is coming from the stills camera division or the video camera division.
This sounds great though Photokina in Sept and then with a drawn out release it’ll be this time next year for most people. With a large number of people still not quite willing to upgrade from 5D to 5DII a year is a long time esp with the 3Ds dropping in price to something much more sensible. Will Canon be able to save themselves in time.
D3s I mean..
I don’t understand how you can interpret this rumor as 3D, Canon’s next model will be the 60D, then likely the 1Ds Mk IV and the next non-upgrade new model will be something to compete with Panasonic GH1.
If Canon want to release something in the slightly affordable FF market then it’s an upgrade to 5D Mk II, and the next logical step for that (if it comes out within a year) is a 7D-like body with the 1D Mk IV sensor scaled to FF, ie around 25MP
Why do they not change the the numbers and make it comfertable for everyone.
2 proffesional camera’s the 1d4 and the 3d make the 3d the new 1d4s and 2 semiprofessional camera’s the 5dII and the 7d. Then you have 2times full frame, 1 1,3x and 1 1,6x.
The xx and the xxx and the xxxx are between semiprofessional and amateur camera’s.
Sounds right for me.
I see no need at all for a 3D. The 5D3 will no doubt address any shortcomings the 5D2 may have (improved AF system and video features, probably DIGIC V and faster continuous shooting). Once the 5D3 is out, there will be even less of a need for something between the 5D and the 1Ds. A 3D makes absolutely no sense, so I chalk all of these rumors up to immature tipsters who should spend more time taking pictures and less time writing fiction just to get a rise out of seeing it posted at this site.
I am afraid we won’t see 60D for a while, expect a XXXD body to be announced at CES. We are receiving big rebates on ordering the 500D at this current moment.
“I see no need at all for a 3D. The 5D3 will no doubt address any shortcomings the 5D2 may have”
So you’re saying that the 5DIII will have <21Mp
You only need to offer some different incentives.
Add first rate wide area AF, metering and sensitivity paired with a nice frame rate and buffer, and no one asks about a few lost pixels. :)
After all the linear resolution difference is just 15%, as a gain it would be nothing to write home about.
I do not know how it works in your countries but in Spain December 28th is the day for big jokes/fake news “Santos Inocentes”
would be nice though ;-)
No, will not be 4D, in Japan/China 4 sound similar to die. =P
Thinks will sell like hotcakes…. How i wish. =P
As much as I like the idea of a 3D, I have to agree with you. The 5D3 MIGHT address the 5D2 shortcomings in the way that you mentioned. 6FPS, 21MP, 7D focusing and ISO 12,800 images that are 1/2-1 stop better than the 1D4 would be just fine with me. (Look at the 1D4 message board thread on Sportshooters.) The wedding photographers will just have to get used to having too many pixels.
x2 !
There is no way they could sell this spec for that much money. Canon has already lost a ton of market share because they have released too many overpriced cameras that don’t work. Canon is not responding well to the market and as a result Nikon and Sony are cleaning up.
A camera at this spec in the current market will only fetch about $2300-2400 MAYBE – and that’s if it works correctly.
Once you’ve owned a 5D for a while and use it heavily you want a 1 series. Although an amazing camera which has bought me along way, it’s limited and flawed, probably by design to get you into 1 series.
It’s only “bleh” if it turns out to be an actual physical camera one can use. At this point, your camera takes actual photos instead of the internet rumor that takes up bandwidth.
I think at $4000+ most people would jump for the 1D and from a marketing perspective this camera would be a dud. Unless of course the body has a built in grip and beefed up chassis. Love the specs.
Who will say that we will see 5D3 ever?
If you look in the past you can watch in the future looking at Canon. Everybody expected to see a 60D, however it was the 7D.
Back in the days we saw the EOS 7 before EOS 3.
Also the EOS 5 was replaced by the EOS 3.
Therefore it will be much more likely we will NEVER see a new 5D3 in the future, but we will see an EOS 3D instead.
It also makes more sense to make the gap between 3D and 7D bigger as they are currently killing of the XXD line at this moment.
I don’t see Sony cleaning up though…
Sony makes the same mistakes as Canon does.
I agree….
But if you don’t own much pricey glass, it would (at this moment) be smarter to go to the Dark Side. Nikon has the better gear at this moment, and Canon doesn’t want to admit it…
In the US we have April 1st, (April Fool’s Day).
A lot of people shoot using those parameters mate.
Full frame. 1DIV is not a full frame sensor and therefore not comparable for argument’s sake.
Possible. That would seem to warrant a 4k price tag. I still think the 16.7 mp count makes no sense within the Canon marketing milieu.
In this AF differentiation scenario, the 3D could sit between the 5D and 1Ds series. It would also allow for the 5D series to move or remain upmarket by keeping the 21 mp sensor and adding the 7D features for the eventual 5D3.
Sony has gained about 8 percent market share, Nikon has gained 4 percent, and Canon has dropped 8.5 percent since 2008. The Sony a850 kills the 5d2 except at higher ISO’s for $700.00 less money. Look at Canon’s track record the last 3 years. The 1d3, 1ds3, 5d2, 7d, and 50d have all had problems and Canon has done a feeble job of addressing them.
I’ve used canon for over 25 years. In the current market, they are way behind the power curve on their bodies.
Personally I’d be happy with a half-speed small-body 1DIV that would occupy the space between the 5DII and the 7D.
Before you switch to Nikon read on the nikonrumors why Nikonians are awaiting so hotly D800 and D4. What’s wrong with D700 and D3s? The show must go on…
agree: nonsense alarm should have been activated once you started typing this rumour: impossible that a 3d has 5mp less pixel than a 5d – and for this it is more expensive= rofl
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/black-silicon-photography,6485.html
Depends on the buffer size, weather sealing, and body construction as well.
What if the 3D had the 7D AF system rather than the 1D4 AF system?
Extended dynamic range and a 16mp sensor would be great, But it ain’t gonna happen! Canon builds mid-range cameras for fanboys, not working professionals.
I would have been interested in a 7D at 12/14mp with low noise. But I’ll stick to my 40D for hand-held work and a 1DsII for use on a camera stand.
The main thing that stops a switch to Nikon is prime lenses. Pentax has the primes I want and maybe the K8 will cause me to make the switch!
Cameras are just tools (not a religion).
Well Phil, there is a precedent for selling cameras with less megapixels that costs more than a lower end model that has more mega pixels. It isn’t all about megapixels.
Nikon D2h was newer and more expensive than the Nikon D100, with 4mp – D100 had 6.1mp.
Canon 1D4 is more expensive than the 5D2 and the 7D, and “only” has 16mp, down from the 5D2’s 21mp, and 7D’s 18mp.
Phil, I am sure there are a BILLION more examples
I think it’s predictable for Canon to release a 3D ‘cos they’ve got a gaping hole in their current numeric line-up: 1D/1Ds, 5D and 7D. Is there room for 9D… hmmm… interesting.
As for specs… it’s got to lie between 1D and 5D. The rumored specs don’t make sense. So, let’s see.. it’s FF… gotta have a more sophisticated AF sensor than 5D… a little faster than 5D perhaps. Those are the most sensible guesses. This makes the 5D series a poor man’s FF digital Rebel camera. ;)
A lot of people disagree with you.
I can certainly live with fewer MP in exchange for other advantages (dynamic range, color depth, speed, clean high ISO, fast AF, to name a few).
Pixel count is not the defining characteristic of a good, or expensive, camera.
nikon will have those primes eventually i’m pretty sure.
There is no reason to not switch to nikon…the ONLY reason would be if canon really came out with this 3D and it had low MP on a full frame sensor
Yeah, I bought one to replace the 5D I was using for low-light event work. Did Canon offer me any alternative, other than switching to another system? The 5D2 is Canon’s best low-light body. I fight to make it work. Doesn’t mean I enjoy it! Nor does it mean I was foolish to buy it. I’ve got 18 year’s worth of Canon lenses built up which I’d prefer to keep using.
If Canon releases the mythical “3D”, full-frame, responsive, serious AF, I’ll buy two of them in a heartbeat. In the meantime, we’re stuck with a series of compromises.
Unless you have some immediate solution to recommend, wise ass.
I bought it because a lot of my work requires high iso capability. The 5D2 is Canon’s best low-light body (perhaps surpassed now by the 1D4, but that’s not full frame). J-Man already answered this question for you.
When the camera nails the focus, and the exposure is far enough to the right to hold down the banding, the 5D2 produces stunning files. It’s just not as easy to generate such files on a consistent basis, especially in fast-moving, challenging lighting conditions.
I’ve got a D700 in the house now too. For event work, it’s definitely the superior tool. I’d rather not invest in a second full system of bodies and lenses. Bring on the 3D already!
Nikon is a lot better at the moment, not just a little better…
the $2400 D700 which is 2 years old is far better than canon’s latest flagship in all aspects pretty much except for video.
Nothing is wrong with the D700 and D3s, they are perfect cameras for still photographers. Autofocus is flawless, build quality is great, IQ is great, high iso performance is far better than even canon’s latest bodies…and if u compare D3s that’s in a league of its own.
If you have any bit of common sense you should see that nikon has the better gear at the moment. Gear doesn’t matter that much in terms of photography, but if you’re comparing the two nikon is better.
At $2700 it does indeed redefine “poor man.”
The Nikon users would like a higher pixel count. You’re not seeing much complaint about the AF system, or other features on the current bodies.
Odds are, Nikon will offer 16 or 18 megapixel cameras before Canon will give us a fully-featured full frame camera at an affordable price. No, the 1DsMkIV will not qualify as “affordable” to most.
A D800 with 16 or 18 megapixels, high frame rate, good autofocus, versus the 5D2? Canon needs to counter Nikon in this segment, fast.
The only hopeful sign I see is that with the 7D Canon seems to have been willing to take on the D300s head on. We need them to do the same regarding the D700/D800.
Nikon is still lagging on lenses. But they seem to be steadily issuing great glass. Just not the lenses that make the most sense!
If they made up some spectacular breakthrough, no one would believe it as a CANON rumour! ;)
Are you sure?? This rumor is just that, it is likely something made up by a 13 year old kid for his amusement. and from that, you say that Canon has changed.
Do not get rumors mixed with facts.
Turn your High ISO Noise Reduction down or off and your buffer will be bigger.
I don’t see the 5D3 decreasing resolution. Why should it? I’m not quite sure where you’re coming from with that question, but perhaps you think the 3D will occupy a lower niche than the 5D in Canon’s lineup. That might be an interesting camera, but that’s not what this tip is suggesting. Read the original announcement again:
“The camera will be priced above the 5D2. Possibly in the $4000-$4500 range with the 1D Mark IV.”
I think most of the wish-list items people have for a FF camera that are not currently met by the 5D2 will be met by the 5D3. The 7D’s AF system in the 5D3 seems like a no-brainer, as would be the video features, assuming that won’t be taken care of in the rumored firmware update (1080p @ 24fps, and I’m not sure if the 5D2 does 720p @ 60fps–if not, it will pick that up, too).
Do you seriously think Canon is going to abandon the 5D line? It’s perhaps the most successful FF DSLR in history.
BTW, the 7D is NOT a replacement for the 50D. It is a new niche. Just look at the price point. There will be a 60D, bet on it.
There was a 1Ds in the used case at the local camera shop for $999. Good AF, full frame. The 1Ds Mark II looks to be running around 2k on the used sites. Good AF, full frame, 16.7 MP.
Poor for people with a lot of disposable income. But I think there might be something to a 3D with the AF system of a 1D4.
Consider this for a 3D:
21-24mp FF sensor
non-gripped magnesium alloy (small frame) body
6 fps
Native ISO to 12800
H1 and H2 and H3 to 102,400
weather sealed
1D4 pro AF system
RAID dual memory cards (1 CF and 1 SD)
built in flash controller (e.g. 7D)
1080p video at up to
60fps
$4000
These would leave room for an eventual 5D3 (2011):
21mp FF sensor
7D AF system
3.9 fps
$2500
And at the high end a 1Ds4 (a.k.a medium format killer):
32mp FF Sensor (possibly square or larger sensor with new lenses)
16-bit files
5 fps
All the AF, weather seal, ruggedized, enhancements of the 1D4.
I was poking fun at your comment that the 3D is not needed, that the 5DIII will do it all.
I was doing so in response to a need for a somewhat lower rez but higher quality body with less noise than the 5DII.
trust me there is a market for it, I’d love to pay less than the 5DII for it, but I know that won’t happen, Quality = $$$
You seem to be saying that the only way Canon can ask for more money for the 3D vs the 5DII is if it has more pixels.
And no I don’t think the 5DIII will have less pixels.
7D has problems?
I pity the fool that believes this jibba jabba. Canon ain’t smart enough to make the 3D that everyone wants!
so true, Canon needs a cheap FF body, they seem to be using it as a status thing.
“Full Frame” [quire]Awwwww[/quire]
I just want to get back to using my glass like I did when I was shooting film.
I’m one of those that want about 15Mp with lower noise.
“impossible that a 3d has 5mp less pixel than a 5d – and for this it is more expensive= rofl”
Ummm Hello, 1DIII, 1DIV
more to a camera than just pixels.
Bring the 3D down to 15-18Mp and I’ll sell my left nut to get one.
“RAID dual memory cards (1 CF and 1 SD)”
that is dual memory card, not RAID.
RAID may be possible, but then Canon will sell one very expensive card reader, the only one which can decode the RAW files from those two CF/SD cards, let it be RAID 0 or 1.
I tend to agree with what others have said: that more likely Canon will create at some point the 5d mkiii which will be a 5dii with better focusing and some other tweaks, most likely a digic v processor. That leaves no room for this mythical beast as described…that may still leave room for a 3d, but it will not be these specs.
It will be interesting to see on which camera model Canon introduces the digic V…will it be the 60d, the 5diii, or something else?
Pentax has the primes I want NOW. Not some time in the future… or maybe never.
“And at the high end a 1Ds4 (a.k.a medium format killer):”
Have you seen anything about the Pentax 645D?? Witch is REAL, not a rumor. Will be released in March/April 2010. The rumored price is $10,000.00 … sounds like a Canon 1DsIV killer.
You learn something new every day! That increased it up to 8 frames! Thank for the tip!
No, it’s not Canon’s best low-light body. The 1D Mark IV is considerably better at low-light work. Better AF, lower noise. Not full-frame, but I consider that a non-issue.
His point is that the same file would be written to both (mirrored). For this to work properly both cards would need to be the same speed, so CF+SD is out of the question, at least for the time being.
Nikon doesn’t seem to be focusing much on their primes, their zooms on the other hand…
If (when?) Sony gets some decent lenses it’s going to get interesting.
The 7D AF system is an improvement, but I don’t think it’s a good fit for a full frame sensor unless the AF points are spread further out.
Will the new camera be the “combined 1D/1Ds” model in a single body?
At 16.7MP, that’s the same size sensor as the 1Ds2, so maybe they’ve taken that and worked on improving its performance rather than improving MP count? Possibly a fork of the R&D efforts? So that while they wait for the “new sensor” project to complete, they’ve worked on just making sensors with more MP?
This would do a lot to explain why Canon’s sensor performance has been somewhat flat since the 1Ds2/5D when compared with the sensors that have gone into Nikon models. Canon are gearing up to make the next leap-frog move :)
And as of today (Dec 29) neither an American nor Canadian consumer has a 1D4 in hand. No reviews. All early early stuff. That the camera is not full frame is an issue to many shooters.
I haven’t heard about this. Sounds interesting. I’ll look into it. Thanks!
baaahaaa I pitty us all tha fool.
In a nutshell you summarized a 135 posts. And gave me incentive to move along. Nothing left to see here.
Hi,
with the specs the price range would be far too high.
So now after 60D comes 3D?? I think there is a 7D which must be sold for a while and the 5D MII would just need a smaller upgrade.
With a 16 MP FF sensor?
It makes more sense to make a 60D with a 16MP sensor of 7d technology, full video capability, better wheather sealing, maybe a felxible display and maybe a integrated Battery Pack, better AF and call it 50D II 50Ds or 50D Mark II.
Otherwise we are going really crazy as you can’t anymore buy a camera thingking you keep it more than 6 months.
Definately wath is missing for Canon is a improving of the 50D not a 3D which suggest to be below below 7D.
The 5dMII could also see some minor upgrade i.e AF and video mode.
Then Canon could concentrate of increasing the quality of image questions so many times asked by many.
I think customers would more appreciate quality improvements rather than new models. Only if you come with real good news like the 7d a new model makes sense I guess.
You don’t like the Zeiss primes??
Both Canon and Nikon zooms are big and heavy. :-(
Here’s the link to PDN Online http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/news/e3i0d52172227325f289ca2b6506ecc9ee4
If you haven’t heard of it PDN magazine is aimed mainly at editorial and commercial shooters. They also do one wedding issue a year.
I guess Canon will provide also 3D software for 3D stills and perhaps 3D movies. Now I use Cineform Neo2 software. Duo 5DM2’s and 24-70mm with own build 3DCamrig,
http://www.camrigs.com/
video at UTB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Cohk1-KGw
BR, Tekkovery Channel
Happy 3D New Year !
Meant FF, of course. That’s what the specs say. The APS-H sensor in the 1D mk4 is quite a bit smaller.
I personally find the 5Dii AF fine for most things except anything that need AI servo (or when I need to use more than just the centre point) it’s not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be, but my shooting style is pushing it’s limit now.
That’s why I am going to get a 1DIV for my general use camera and use the 5Dii for portraits, landscapes as well as a second (wide end) event camera.
BTW I strongly disagree with the statement someone made above, something like “no one would miss 21MP”. While I do usually shoot sRAW1, for portraits and landscapes I use and love 21mp. Then when your landscapes are blown up to approx 20′ (that’s feet not inches) wide prints for public display, you need a many MP as you can get. ;-)
For me the 1DIV fills the gap in my needs nicely.
Nikon is ok, but I just can’t get use to their ergonomics (a lot of people like it, but I don’t)
Why not give it a 16/18mp FF sensor, 19-point AF and about 6fps and call it a 7Ds? That keeps it clear of the 5D2 in terms of absolute resolution and (in my mind at least) follows the 1D / 1Ds type range.
To be quite honest I don’t care what they call it 3D, 5D3 or any name you like as long as the build it!
Another one of my posts mysteriously dissappears.
Canon needs to leapfrog the sensor technology in Nikon’s. Using a 16MP sized sensor of 7D technology will not do that for them.
The new sensor is, I suspect, the result of Canon doing work to increase imagine quality that you seem to suggest they need to fix.
To make it obvious that the new camera has a new sensor (and isn’t just a “warmed up” something else), they’re introducing a new model.
How can you fault them for that?
I never said the 5D would “do it all.” I said there’s no need for a new niche in Canon’s lineup slotted between the 5D and 1Ds. The 5D3 will, IMO, address most if not all of the shortcomings in the 5D2. There’s always a market for less noise, but that doesn’t mean Canon is going to carve out a new niche at the $4500 price point with the specs listed in this rumor (which I think is not a real rumor but a wish list at best and fantasy writing at worst). The issue is never what you or I would buy but what enough people would buy to justify the introduction of a new camera. I don’t see it happening. I could see a cheaper FF camera slotted below the 5D, but that’s not what this rumor is saying.
Obviously, they would have to adjust for the FF sensor, just as the 5D2 (which uses essentially the same AF system as the 50D) has done.
huh.
I wonder why the camera has to do noise reduction while bursting. Couldn’t these tasks be done in background while idle?
Can’t read you.
I think this is wrong. These cameras may sabotage each other a bit (if they will ever exist together), but have very different strengths and would be totally different beasts. $3000 vs. $4000 is not the question. The audience is it. And as a wedding photographer, I’d immediately go for the rumored 3D, if it only had a better AF than the 5D/5DII cameras.
Indeed, Nikon’s D700 is what put’s Nikon in a advantageous position right now. Not for Megapixel, not for a little noise advantage (or not) and not much for price. But for having a real pro-quality body and especially pro-AF in a compact and full-frame format.
I also have bought a 5D2 and have had a 5D for over 3 years shooting Weddings & Portraits, i have found that i get quite a few out of focus images at Weddings with the 5D2 , which is very frutrating. The autofocus on the original 5D seems more reliable even though they are supposed to be the same?
They are freaking expensive.
They want a D800 or D4 coz they’re stuck in 12mp land. There are people who need more than 12mp and currently the D3X is the only solution for Darksiders.
If so, could it be a backlit CMOS sensor???
But with a backlit CMOS even with the same sensor size, should has 2x better low light performance. So with new backlit CMOS + new 7D sensor designed (gapless microlenses + reduced distance between microlenses and photodiodes), the new sensor should be 25Mp with native ISO up to 51,200. =P
If not, think sensor too small for a new FF DSLR camera, then should be called 5D MkIIs, where ‘s’ stands for small, but don’t tell anyone so everybody think ‘s’ stands for super. =P
Canon made some technological breakthroughs in the new 7d sensor. Probably even better than backlight technology on larger sensors. I doubt they will reduce the mpx for 3d. I think Canon will release the 1ds4 with 32mpx in the beginning of the year, then pop that same sensor into the 3d later on. That makes more sense.
What’s all this talk about Canon losing market share again? The latest BCN ranking for 2009 shows Canon with a whopping 10% lead over NIKON. Although that is mainly for the japo mkt, it is a good indication for the market on the whole.
CR0 basically because it is technically wrong. the guy who wrote it didn’t even calculate it proparlly.
Well, the 1d mkIV goes against the grain of traditional Canon thought; instead of increasing the megapixels, they decreased it while increasing ISO and speed.
So no, the 1d mkIV is a bit unusual.
Canon 1de Mark 1
Full frame.
48 Megapixels.
10 fps
Dual DIGIC V
In-body image stabilization, with extra connectors allowing it to support IS II, which has the lens communicate with the camera so that you can achieve 8 stops of image stabilization.
No AA filter
esraw, emraw, elraw with pixel binning at 12, 16, and 32 megapixels, allowing for high quality ISO 51200 and ISO 102400. Macro-binning system also reduces the effect of diffraction limited aperture on picture sharpness.
Highly enhanced SnR ratio allows for ISO usable iso 25600.
LIVE (Lens Interchangeable, Viefinder Electronic) system allows for the body to be the size and weight of a 5d Mark 2.
Enhanced 73 point AF system allows for improved autofocus, with modes enabled in the movie mode to allow for better control of the autofocus.
Electronic IR filter allows you to take IR photographs at handheld speeds, but does not hamper visible light photography with the IR filter electronically activated.
The sole caveat? This camera costs $35000 a pop to make up for the R&D costs.
Canon 2000D
9 spot AF.
8 megapixels
Modern high ISO reduction design allows for usable 6400 ISO.
640×480 movie mode at 30 FPS.
Sells for $500.
Oh, before I go back to the future, just have to remind you of something. It turns out that Canon’s legendary Q&A issues popped up. In about 30% of 1des, which happens to be a production run of 1000, mind you, the IR filter malfunctions and blocks all incoming light, rendering the camera useless. It’s your fault for trying to shoot through women’s clothes, dear.
The new firmware is also pretty faulty; the system locks up and displays a Red Screen of Death (TM) every once in a while, and about 20% of electronic viewfinders have over 100 dead pixels.
When you shoot at full speed, there is a chance that the camera will overheat and fry the electronics. In this case, your Canon warranty does apply and you can have the camera repaired for a small fee of $10,000.
There have been reports that the chassis is defective and sheds particles into the sensor compartment. Be careful while using the sensor cleaning function, as people have lost fingers to the mirror.
Also, as the dollar has collapsed in the past few years, while the yen has remained resilient, the price of $35000 is no longer accurate and is now $3.5 million, which is also the price of a Toyota Camry. For Europeans, don’t be smug, as the Euro has collapsed and your currency is now preferred firewood, which is good since the Russians have cut off gas exports.
Regarding the 2000D, if the camera detects that, aside from the kit lens, that the lens being used has never been used on another camera, of at least 7D quality, the camera will refuse to click the shutter. The shutter life of the camera is now 5,000 pictures, after which you will have to buy a new camera as Canon refuses to service your 2000D, finding it too cheap.
And one last thing:
Nikon now has camera implants that tap into your optical nerve and can capture whatever you see. This results in a monumental improvement on dynamic range, as the human eye is about 1000 or so stops ahead of the average DSLR. Low-light performance is also adequate, although it is generally quite noisy. Tonal quality is superb, and the files generated are vector graphics, typically between 5 and 14 megabytes in size.
Polygamy is now legal and every purchase of the O3 implant comes with a free trophy wife. If you are not attracted to women, don’t worry, they have highly effective pills for that, which do not have a permanent effect.
Great post, I wonder how much you like movies?!