From NL
This spec list comes from a Canon Camera tester.
* 1.3 crop
* Images ~16MP
* ISO 50-26500
* 8MP sRAW1 format providing images that seem to best 1D3 files in detail [typo corrected]
* Very clean images at ISO 3200. 6400/12800 take further processing very well
* Slightly faster FPS than 1D3 in real life shooting
* AF greatly improved and very good in low light (actual comment was ‘Nikon fast’ ;-)
* Liveview AF – not up to fast sports use, but very usable otherwise
* Video as with 5D2
* Screen as per 5D2
* Ergonomic improvements with grips – some buttons moved
* Feels faster and more responsive in nearly all aspects of real use.
cr
|
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Here's how it works. |
Yawn…a marginally improved 1D3 with video.
so is that a CR3 rumor?
C’mon Canon… make it full frame and I’ll buy two the day it comes out.
It´s a “Canone-tester”! (CR3)
But… who say it´s not a fake? ;) (CR1)
Yep, FF would be very cool.
More scammers advertising on CR’s?
Those £1,140 Canon 5D MK2’s on koobshop just shout SCAM!
http://www.koobshop.com/goods.php?id=504
I know it’s google that puts ’em up…just pointing it out :)
making it full frame would certainly kill their darling 1ds, so no way they’re gonna to this.
There is a typo: ISO 50-25600…
LOL exactly.
Is it someone claiming to be a tester or someone CR knows for a fact is a tester?
I’m not spending $4500 on as camera that ruins wide angle lens ability
but hey, if true I can pick up a used 1D3 on the cheap after it comes out – at least there’s that.
No it wouldn’t. The 1Ds4 will probably be 28MP 4-5 fps, so I 1D4 at 16MP 12 fps is a different animal.
Is there a CRx rating for this? I agree, it should be full frame to get my money.
First Direct Print joke of the thread…
Does this rearrangement of buttons mean we can expect to see dual direct print buttons? Just having one was keeping me from dropping the hammer on the last one.
As I recall, the press release for the original 1D, the 4MP model, bragged how its sensor was the closest to being FF of any pro model at the time.
they replaced the hotshoe with a direct print button
If you see a scam site, just email me and I’ll add them to the blocked list. We all see different ads depending on location.
That’d be great, thanks!
I have no CR Rating since it’s not my rumor.
I have no CR rating on this because its not my rumor.
If it is indeed built around an APS-H sensor then Canon will now once and for all how PJs feel about FF vs 1.3. This will either be the last 1.3 crop camera Canon ever makes in this model or it will live on. Sales will decide I’m sure.
My personal opinion is that Nikon will continue to erode the Canon space in the PJ field. Too little too late for Canon on this one.
But it leaves a space wide open for another camera. A 3D!!! An enhanced 5DMKII.
3D wish list specs:
small frame body
FF sensor
6.5 fps
19 point AF
weather sealed
100% viewfinder
increased DR
dynamic 1.6 crop
clean high iso up to 3200.
1080p 24 and 30 mode video
I would buy this camera for $3199 today.
I know there was a very lively back and forth on the initial post about the 1.3x sensor, but I was hoping that the original rumor was wrong. Why oh why would you do this to me, Canon?? As a wedding shooter, I would LOVE a fast, full-frame camera with reliable AI Servo mode so that I can grab more keepers of the bridal party coming down the isle, or any other situation during a wedding where people aren’t standing still. Not to mention the fact that, as a professional in what is arguably one of the largest segments of the pro-photography market, it would be nice if Canon made a 1-series body for folks like me. I need wide angle for shots in the church, the reception, tight quarters of dressing rooms, etc., so 1.3x crop doesn’t help me. I was really hoping that the next 1D would be my ideal camera (i.e. excellent low-light performance, reasonable megapixel count, reliable/professional-grade auto focus, fast frame rate, and FULL FRAME for wide angle shots), but alas, I guess it is not to be.
With gps and 1.5 fps more I would pay 3999.
* Images ~16MP
* Slightly faster FPS than 1D3 in real life shooting
why are there no exact numbers? like 16.4mp an 12fps?
you can’t forget such things,… or is it just a wishlist?
That´s why I think it is a fake.
APS-H rather than FF would be disappointing but not a deal breaker, at least for me. But the rest of that NL post goes on:
“Testing is carried out on different parts of cameras in different bodies, so if a 1D4 arrives in August, expect the specs to be pretty close. If it doesn’t turn up until January, then quite a bit could be different (such as an FF sensor, which we’ve also heard of being tested)”
Evert, the Ds is all about resolution, not specifically sensor size. It will be twice the 1D resolution and half the frame rate, more or less. I doubt a FF 1D would affect 1Ds sales by more than 3%, and I bet they’d make that up in added customers for having it be FF.
Also a lower than 5D mkII density FF sensor of later generation would have amazing noise performance. It would probably get additional buyers just for the video.
actually thats the shutter button. the hotshoe is now a mount for the printer itself
Sounds like a wishlist to me too.
‘Slightly faster’ FPS, ‘Nikon-fast” AF (when low light AF and acquisition on a 1D3 is already marginally faster than the D3) and ‘feels faster and more responsive'( ALL the current pro cameras feel like the last word in responsiveness already). The tester sounds pretty dumb to me even if the specs are genuine. More likley he’s just a fantacist.
I’m in on the 3d. In fact, I’m in if they would just improve the AF system in the 5d MK II. Low light performance STINKS. I can live with the 9 point autofocus if I have to… but not the performance. I have an old 10d that doesn’t hunt nearly as bad as the 5d mk II in low light.
+1
Huh?? It’s the 5DMkII that is most damaging to 1Ds sales. The 1Ds series is or should be the model competing with the MF backs from Leaf and Phase One, with dynamic range and resolution to spare. At least that’s how the 1Ds and D3X seem to be priced.
I’ll be surprised if it’s called the Mk4 – the number 4 is bad luck in Japan.
The G series went from 3 to 5
So did Fuji’s DSLR…
New 1D camera
…with Full Frame sensor and dynamic crop ability = AWESOME
…with APS-H 1.3 crop sensor = P.O.S.
I am also a Wedding photographer and feel exacly the same as i cant justify the price of a 1Ds. Currently using 5D mark 1 and two 30D’s , and have resisted buying 5D2. If the new 1D4 isnt full frame i wont be buying it.
lulz,… nice 1… :D
i was told by someone at canon that it will most likely be the 1D MarkIIIN
I had quite big hopes on FF, I still somewhat do.
Crop sounds so unbelievable to me. This is the most
fundamental thing for me whether to decide in favour
of mk4 or not. Fast FF is clearly missing (actually
I like more the idea of having LESS MPs in a bigger
sensor), also count in the price difference.
Maybe the tester isn’t allowed to disclose certain facts about the camera under test.
Why do so many of you people want a mid-price FF body when there’s already a cheaper and more expensive choice?
But us birder need it.
Perfect for my 800mm
We want FF, we want FF, we want FF…
But as far as I know Canon folks, it d be better if we screamed that we want a APS-H then we would get the FF for sure. Anyhow they can kiss me off the buyers list if it ll be an APS no matter how good the specs are.
Can someone please forward this blog link to the people in charge in Canon, let them read first hand what a mistake they are about do if the APS-H is going to happen. Really I m said. I was allways a canonian, but latley they are loosing it(it s not unrepairable yet, but time tiks away), and my words (you ll never see me on a nikon). Well let s just say it ll be a sad day, but a must if this continues much further.
it isn’t about the price, it’s about the speed.
I want to shoot action sports which means i need a fast body and also a good wide-angle lens.
so the 1.3 crop isn’t what I am looking for.
instead of a FF 1D there could at least be a good 1.3 crop lens for wide-angle.
I think the big advantage of the 1.3 crop is that the mirror is faster, I am sure a FF mirror would be fast enough for about 15 fps, but there would also be a problem with AI-servo to track the objects. so using a smaller(faster) mirror increases the time to focus which is also very important…
Because the expensive one is a – too expensive(go figure), b – too slow (just 5fps) and c – sucks in low light not AF performance but ISO performance. The cheaper one: a – sucks even more in low light but this time it s the AF fault not ISO, b – it s even slower (3,9fps) and c – it s not 100% wheather resistant
And that s just scratching the surface, I could probably go until e or futher ;)
The PixDensity of a 16.3MP 1.3OFVC would be like a 26.4MP Full Frame camera.
So does it get the quality (ISO/DR/CD) of the D3x; but with a few less MP so it can be faster?
That could be nice.
With trends a 16.3MP full frame could be killer though…
It can be called EOS D3N Ikon or a big fat cow, just let it be a FF.
I’d like FF but… my 1DMKII needs to be changed when the new 1D comes out so if the sensor is APS-H, i’ll have to by the new camera anyway.
I understand why some people would like to keep the 1D APS-H. Smaller mirror means faster mirror, you dont have to post-crop and AF point more spread out in the VF
But to me, FF has more advantage. Better movie with, real 35mm. More crop option in post-prod. Use wide angle lens. Bigger VF.
It’s a compromise… always… I would have wish both 1D serie camera would have merge. Technology is there to allow it but maybe it’s not 100% ready yet.
NO. I’m sorry. the number of people who shoot birds professionally is very small the number of people who shoot birds and can afford a 1D camera is small. You represent a not terribly large portion of the target market for the 1D camera. Most everyone else would prefer FF. besides you can always crop, possibly even with a dynamic crop.
the tester isn’t supposed to say there’s a camera… that’s what the NDA is for
Maybe because ALL the tester don’t get ALL the stats. These prototype camera have different feature in different body. Some people test new AF module on old sensor while other test new LCD or battery.
I find that unlikely, since ‘N’ means mild reworking. the only digital camera to be an ‘N’ had the same body/sensor/framerate, etc… as its predecessor, it just got a bigger screen, bigger buffer, and newer menu system.
Mr camera rumors guy, any word about the Lord of darkness camera thing? 7D or what ever its called.
FF 16MP would be a step back to the 1Ds Mark II days. FF is already at 21MP and rising.16MP with a 1.3 crop is the same density as 21MP FF, so expect ISO performance to exceed the 5D MK II by a half stop or maybe a full stop.
My 5D MK II autofocuses even with lights turned out using the center point. I am very pleased with low light autofocus. What lens are you using in the dark? I used the 50mm F:/1.8 and it focused more slowly, but the focus was right on. I couldn’t ask for more.
except this camera would run rings around the 1Ds mk II both in terms of fps and sensor quality. The 5D mk II has good low ISO, but even a stop over that is my most conservative request for 1D mk IV ISO performance. forgive me, but I do not see how having a 1D camera meet the resolution of the Ds made two generations prior is a regression of technology. especially considering that the 1D mkIII has few pixels than the original 1Ds.
Having literally just moved from the 10D to the 5Dii, I would argue this point. The shots I take with the 5D that involve hunting are shots I wouldn’t have even bothered with on the 10, knowing they would have never come out. I’m pushing the 5Dii more in lower light than I ever would have pushed the 10D and don’t see the autofocus issues as being as big an issue.
while that may be true, I would recommend comparing against a camera of more equal generation. the 10D and 5D mk II are seperated by like 6 years.
“FF has more advantage. Better movie with, real 35mm.”
a FF sensor is larger than what most feature films are shot on. S35.
still gives you more DoF control
I concur with a lot of sentiment here. It lines up with the discussions I am having in the real world with a lot of fellow pro photogs in the canon camp (myself included).
Moving away from Canon isn’t an easy choice and its not something that happens over night. Canon just simply might not be aware of how many pro’s are ready to walk if they dont get something substantial in the coming months.
Almost 100% of the best guys shooting canon have liquidated at least some of their canon glass – some more than others – in anticipation of a potential move away from Canon in the next 12 months.
Honestly that is how serious this next product is. Every single person I have spoken to is of the same view. There is just no patience left in the Canon pro photog camp.
Almost zero tolerance for incompetence this time round.
Specs like quoted above will absolutely end professional relationships no matter what the price. I have no doubt about that.
If this 16mp 1.3 sensor has the same pixel density as the current 5DII, then how is it going to exceed the current 5DII’s high ISO performance by 1/2 – a full stop?
It would be interesting how many people would buy the 1D4 stated above or a ff not as many fps…
I guess if its about sports (assuming the 1D is more sports oriented than the 1Ds is to IQ with not needing as much as 6fps) a cropped sensor helps… lets say olympics or football or NFL etc… you are taking pictures from far away…
Maybe all the people that speak here might want ff, but what does everybody think like that? Hard to say…
the bad thing about 1.3 is that you get screwed on the wide angle as you have to use EF lenses so you cant really go as wide as with a 1.6 crop and EFS…
Oh well probably Canon has studied what is best in the market and if they think its gonna sell better well maybe its a good option maybe not… i seem to think its not but i would still buy a 1d4 with apsH
Well canon has studied and concluded wrong if they come out with an APS-H successor to the PJ oriented 1D series camera. Fast full frame is overdue, dynamic crop solves the reach issue for people who don’t want to crop PP. Canon will see the error of their ways if this camera is released in the sales.
Okay… I have a pair of Mark II’s: the 1D Mark II and the 5D Mark II. Their mirrors are the same size as near as I can see. The viewfinder in the 1D Mark II blocks light at the edges, but it’s the same size.
Maybe Canon is also planing to release a new wide angle lens with the 1DMk4, some thing like a 12-28 2.8 or 4. That would give you basically a 16-36 lens on a 1.3 body. Problem solved, wedding guys are happy and so are the PJ’s and bird guys. Canon did say there were releasing 100 new products.
No doubt dynamic crop solves the issue, and hopefully it could have different fps rate for each crop size.
it would be awesome! but seems expensive
Zac,
Totally agree with you. However, I am responding to Bill’s comment above of “I have an old 10d that doesn’t hunt nearly as bad as the 5d mk II in low light.” Your recommendation should be directed at him.
Ah, makes sense. I noticed NL also has this source saying
“If it doesn’t turn up until January, then quite a bit could be different (such as an FF sensor, which we’ve also heard of being tested)”
So maybe there is a FF version.
Right on Zac. It’s no step backwards if they are making it do 12 fps FF.
well then I must it for sure
yeah, it was close, but not.
Exactly. Me too.
Why then was Nikon’s top SLR the F4 then? Nikon is Japanese too and they had no problem with it.
You mean Canon is going to develop a third lens line just for the 1D4? I dont think so. 100 new products for a company with thousands of products including printers, copiers, binoculars, ink cartriges, scanners, etc. doesnt equate to new camera or lens product lines. All they have to do is go FF on the 1D4 and the lens issue is solved.
That logic is for the birds, hehe.
That’s not what I am saying at all, it would be an EF lens so you could use it on all EOS body’s. It will most likely not happen but it is an option for Canon if they want to keep the 1D a 1.3 crop, but have the wide angle of a FF.
i sent this post to Canon… this was their response
Dear Max:
Thank you for contacting Canon product support, and for writing to us
about the replacement for the EOS 1D Mark III. We appreciate the
opportunity to assist you.
We have forwarded your suggestion to through our Customer Feedback
process. This process allows us to capture important feedback from our
valued customers. As we constantly strive to improve our products and
services, suggestions are vital to our continued success.
We appreciate you taking the time to share your comments with us.
Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.
Sincerely,
Erik
Hey I’m all for a 12-24 L type of lens, but even that would suck for 1.3 crop – Why would I want my new 12mm to be 15.6mm? See this is why the APS-H sucks.
Justin, that would be a great camera! Sounds like a Pentax K-7 and Nikon D3 blend.
Speaking of…how is it that Pentax is making a truely weather sealed pro-like body with built in HDR, 5.2 fps, and 1080p video WITH AF for under $1300??? And weather sealed lenses they have too! Yeah it’s a crop, but really, this says a lot for build quality that can cost far less than a 1D. I saw a video of someone dunking their Pentax under water and still shooting…
lol good one
I think Nikon makes TWO cameras that would do what you want. The D3 and D700. I realize you most likely have a collection of glass, but if it’s nice Canon stuff it should sell for almost what you paid.
I don’t understand the folks that say “you can’t have speed with a full frame mirror “. The Canon EOS 1V film camera can do 10 FPS and it’s been around for NINE YEARS!!!
The Nikon D3 mirror can go 11 FPS and it also seems to work fine. I don’t get it.
you are correct.
reply button selection fail.
I think its fake!
A sports camera with video, will have many problems working with big events, where the tv rights are sold.
Other videocamera’s will not be allowed on the the event.
Thats why I think that in the sportscamera, never build in a video.
But then wouldn’t people just complain that their 12-28 only works as a 16-36 and not a 12-28 on the 1D4? ;)
I guess that’s what will happen : the next 1D will be the quintessence of incremental design.
Canon already had an expertise in incremental design, now the “economic crisis downturn” gives them a justification.
Nothing to see, move along.
“FF is @ 21 MP and rising”. I hope not! FF is good for high dynamic range, low noise @ high iso, and shallow DOF. The “s” version may be 100 MP if you like, but I hope the focus of the non-“s” will stay at quality, meaning absolutely no more than 16 MP @ FF at the moment, or 12 MP for 1.3 crop.
Cheers
Could also be that the tester was only told the total MP count, but not the effective MPs, or vice-versa. Or maybe discolosing the final number of MP would somehow expose the identity of the person obviously breaking his NDA.
Anyway, these do look like a logical list for a 1D4.
I wonder whether the new AF means a totally new one, and whether one could thus hope that the current 1D3 one will somehow migrate to the xxD line? (wishful thinking, I know). But maybe they could at least make a 19-25 AF system based on the 1D3?
It’s about publishing not recording, it has been said already thousands of times.
So if the H is such a small market then why do canon make it and why do a hell of a lot of PJ’s and Sports Shooters use it? FF is great for stuff that FF is great for and there is clearly a market, but there is clearly a market for the H aswell as it has the best of both worlds for a number of shooters. If they can make a FF at the same price as the H with an H crop to give the quality then that will be great but they cant. A FF will be more like £5000 whereas the H will be more like £3000 and comparisons with a standard D3 are moot aswell as a D700 as they are not the same. I would be very surprised if a FF version of some kind does not come along at some point so youll just have to wait for it or go get a Nikon.
B->
This rumor from NL is BS. The AF is “Nikon-fast”??? 1D3 & 1D2 AF was already proven faster at initial acquisition, dynamic servo tracking & low-light performance than D3, these observations are from real pros who have shot with both top cameras from both brands (as against the opinion of gadget-collecting fanbois that plague DPR), so which Nikon body is the source comparing it to?
I hope the source didn’t mean to imply that the 1D4 AF actually “slowed-down” to Nikon AF speeds so as to remove the AF servo issues that affected the 1D3 AF. :P That would be just bad news.
Exactly; Canon should still be striving to have all bodies FF. That’s the whole point to the intended focal length design of their lenses. Anyone crying wanting to keep 1.3 should get a teleconverter, as that’s what they are designed for.
Agreed
Agreed. I have been a Canon die-hard since ’96; and well-invested in Canonn gear. If the 1D MKIV or whatever it will be called isn’t FF, or still not up to par with Nikon’s advances, I’m reluctantly considering making the switch, and may do so if Canon can’t get their act together.
Exacly on point.
Nathan if you work for a paper or agency then unless you buy your own gear you generally don’t get a choice. You use what you’re given. There are still papers and agencies that give their photographers the 4mp Nikon D2H and Canon 1D mki (don’t think because a new camera comes out agencies suddenly change all their cameras).
If you’re a freelance PJ like me, and you’ve already got a whole bunch of one companies gear then you can’t afford to just switch. Remember up until a few years ago the fast fps options for sport and PJ were the 1D with a 1.3 crop or the Nikon with a 1.5 crop. Its only recently you’ve had the full frame Nikon option. And now a lot of us with Canon gear want that FF (high fps) option too.
Yep same here. A few colleagues have already switched. I borrowed a Nikon + 300 2.8 for a second body on one day of a three day swimming international and was pretty happy with it despite never having really shot one before.
My mkiii has just died and needs to go into servicing (in addition to getting the last two recalls done). My mkii’s are getting on a bit and a few lenses are coming up for replacement too.
Half the folks seem to get it here and the other half seem to come on here dreaming and then moaning the way they want it. It seems to me Canon has been pretty clear what each iteration of the 1D and then what the 1Ds will have as main features and the 4th iteration may include HD because of the 5D2, so what so difficult?
‘D’ clearly has a 1.3 crop for sports/animal reach(but can change) and is fast!
‘Ds” has almost double the MPs than the ‘D’ at each release and continuous fps equal to about 5 or slow which sounds reasonable and ‘yes’ usually costs about USD8K.
The only way i would be happy if Canon kept the 1.3 crop on the 1D4, would be if they sycnificantly brought down the price of the 1Ds. What i cant understand is that if the 5D2 costs £2100 (street price) how can they justify charging £3000 more for a Pro body and wether sealing??? I think we are being ripped off buy Canon as well as Nikon for there top models as i wouldnt be surprised if the D3 and D3x actually cost the same to produce as there bodies are identical and they are both Full Frame. The fact that the D3 can shoot at 11fps should ofset the D3x resolution, so both cameras should in my mind be the same price (£3500).
These specs are BS.
The real deal will impress.
No, I’m not going to tell.
I use the 50 1.2 and 85 1.2. It’s just an observation I made.
Zac, that was my point. Last weekend at a wedding I shot with my 5d MK II (1ds out for repair) and used the 10d as a backup. the 5d MK II toppled with a 580 EX II and 50 1.2 hunted several times. In it’s defense.. It was very dark. The 10d, toppled with the same equipment did in fact still hunt, but seemed snappier that the 5d MK II. I’m not trying to start a flame war – I’m only stating what I’ve experienced.
So my point was… A six year old DSLR was on par with what I was seeing from my 5d MK II. What’s up with that canon? In normal light, the 5d MK II is considerably faster.
You are correct. I get awesome shots from my 5d MK II in low light – shots that I would never get with the 10d. The 10d is like my 4th level backup. I accidentally brought it to my last shoot instead of the 20d. Anyway, your point was right on using existing or low light… But I was triggering several flashes, and it wasn’t a huge deal.
Oops, I was incorrect about using the 580 EX II.. I was using a radio popper to trigger flashes. My bad :)
I kinda like the specs, except the APS-H…
You sound totaly fake but still you give me hope so I can’t wait to see what they come up with.
Of course this is NOT true, a ‘tester’ doesn’t speak let alone tell you the real specs.
If this tester really spoke he will definately be thrown out of the test program and can forget any support by Canon in the future as well forget his photography business due to the legal claims of Canon.
So this is not true or this tester is some really, really stupid photographer…..
The discussion here is ridiculous. Canon just gave you all a sub-$3K FF 21 megapixel camera. WITH VIDEO!
It’s NOT one size fits all. Manufacturers offer different products for different uses. The 1.3 crop is not positioned for super wide angle use. What I think Canon needs to do is offer a 1-series body with a 1.6 crop!
OK, that makes more sense, because my 580 EX II will put out the AF assist light in one shot AF, and that pretty much ends any AF problems. of course I don’t know that you weren’t in servo, but still.
ok.
here’s what I want
FF for wide-angle lenses
Pro body with sealing
45 point AF system
fast motordrive.
so am I really supposed to go buy a 5D mkII, which, while a very good camera, lacks all but one of those.?
oh thanks for the information, so there is no excuse left for canon… go FF!
there won’t be a mk3n, because the mk3 had big problems and no one would buy it. they would all think there are parts of the old af-system in the “new” camera…
‘Nikon Fast’? So they slowed down the AF? That kind of sucks.
There are numerous other pro lenses that are better suited for FF: 85 1.2, 14mm 2.8, the tilt-shift family, the list goes on.
I think pros in this economy are saying if I drop five grand on a body, I want it to be optimal for more applications, not just action and telephoto work. Clearly the pros want high performance and FF, and not necessarily in that order.
There is another big reason to crave full frame, it has better IQ with more tonal range.
A question, does anyone know how the 300 f2.8 L IS performs on a 1.3 to 1.6 cropped sensor – do cropped sensors compromise the 300 2.8 legendary IQ? Very interested in this lens, but not if it looses it’s magic on a cropped sensor.
Dang…I think Nikon will lose all its sales because of this new 1D IV. I’m applying for a position with Canon now!.
D4 Tester
liar :P
Can only speak to the 400 2.8 and 200 1.8, the lenses don’t lose any magic on crop sensors, but the 1.3 and 1.6 cameras are not as good as my FF ones, and my sense is the lens IQ is way beyond problems with cropped sensors for 200 + focal length. The problems I have with crop are with the wide angels, the 15mm fisheye and 14mm, especially – but even the wide on the 24mm at 1.6 crop on the 24-70 is a 38mm, hardly wide angle, and it’s 31mm on the 1.3…still sucks as there’s a big difference between 24mm and 31mm.
YES, which is why they should dump the APS-H and go FF.
You’re so right there. Pentax’s new K-7 is probably better weather sealed than the 1Ds3, does HD video with AF, 5.2 fps, and only costs $1299. Sure the FF sensor costs more than the crop sensor Pentax uses, but $6700 more??? I dont think so. Otherwise, as you point out, how could the FF 5D2 only cost $2700. Canon has way over priced the 1Ds line.
I’m taking the 5D2, ordered it today, and if they make the one you describe I’ll get that too – I think they’d make the perfect pair.
Hopefully for all the Nikon buyers the D4 will not spend 50% of its time in the shop like my F4’s did…
What color ink will the sensor take?
yes but one pro photographer can t have ALL camera. If yop are rich an famous :) ok. but normally a pro make many kind of works… some sport, some still-life, some wedding…
technology now is ready for give one camera for make all of these works, like for analogic eos1. 16 mp ff for a fast camera is possible, and of course FF senson always made better file than a cropped one(at same Mp).
RGB hehe
Me either. I think its a rumor-mill myth.
wtlloyd, I wouldn’t mind a 1.6 crop in a compact pro weather sealed body, Pentax just did that with the K-7 and it’s cheap too, so could Canon – call it a 7D or something. But they should also drop the 1.3 and go FF on the 1D line. If you’re gonna do a crop, do it all the way not this lame 1.3 stuff like my old 1D.
Unfortunately Canon makes EF-S lenses so we can all be sure 1.6 crop is gonna always be around in the lower price ranges.
i hope the iso could compete with nikon D3, they are both 10 fps for sport
The 40D is discontinued at BH!!
Ditto to that!! I’ve held off from getting a 5d2 because fps and auto focus just don’t quite match what I need and was hoping the 1d4 (or a 3d) would match. Looks like we will be disappointed yet again :-(
What Canon need to do is beating Nikon D3 on high Iso performance, and at least match the D3 successor. It doesn’t seem likely that they can with Nikon being best at high iso the last two years. Even now they can’t match the D300 with 50D and 500D. So unless Canon comes up with some killer feature that’s more important than high Iso then you can be pretty sure that the 1D Mark IV will be full frame.
I would imagine many top sports pros will be shooting 1D and 1Ds lines side by side so for these a 1.3 crop would be an advantage. Less so for PJs who may appreciate maximum flexibility in a single body.
Either way a working camera with zero bugs is imperative this time.
I’m going to buy lots of L lenses replacing my ugly Nikon lenses.
I have the Nikon D3, D3X and 1Ds Mark III. The 1Ds Mark III is clearly the fastest but the Nikon’s are clearly the most accurate. I wrote a comparison at ProPhotoHome.com.
What is needed is a camera that is Canon Fast and Nikon accurate. Any new 1 series camera from Canon needs to be deadly accurate – then we are talking.
the Ds version perhaps?
Maybe – though most people I’ve heard think a 1Ds4 is farther off so I’d doubt a test version is out there already. The NL site is talking about the 1D4, and implies there are different versions of the 1D4 being tested. Which makes the whole rumor suource suspect because how would they know if their version is the one that will get released? And it makes no sense to me that Canon would be testing FF and APS-H – that’s a lot of R&D spent on one of them being chosen and the other not.
Ditto that. I have the cash set aside to buy a new full frame camera and lenses and am just waiting to see if the new 1D4 will be full frame or if I should go Nikon instead. Currently shooting APS-C, but need a camera with fast reliable autofocus in low light and full frame, so that rules out the 5D2.
I agree 100% my d3 and d3x are more accurate than my 1ds!
Clean at ISO3200? So what your guys think the 5D II are clean at? Clean at ISO12800?
An opinion without comparison is sheer meaningless
Just a heads up. First 5D Mark II hack package released.. WOW!
http://vimeo.com/5267475
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_Firmware_Wiki
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/237747-magic-lantern-firmware-released.html
Full release notes:
* Only works with Canon firmware version 1.1.0
* Only the external mic input is supported
* Canon firmware will restart if LiveView mode is exited or powersave
* HDMI, USB and composite video output are disabled
* Zebras can not be disabled, threshold is not configurable, color can not be changed
* Canon’s onscreen menus will not function correctly (configure everything before booting the Magic Lantern firmware)
* Picture Style button will bring up an event viewer
* Digital zoom works
* Button remapping is currently disabled
* ALC is disabled
* Digital gain is fixed at +12 dB
* Analog gain is set to +10 dB
* Windcut (highpass filter) is disabled
* Lowpass filter is enabled with default params
* EQ params are at the default settings
bah, I really hoped for a FF. But I guess canon knows their market best. :\
Mark, i fully appreciate that some people would like a FF 1D, i just cant understand the people who demand a FF, say that there is no market for H and theyll ditch Canon if they dont get the camera they want. There are times when a FF 1D would be great for me but id rather spend half the money and get two H’s which works better for me. As i said, FF has its uses but not what everybody need/wants or can afford and i doubt you will find the non FF users will make the same sweeping statements that some of the FF users make. As for a gear swap it seems a number of Canon users have made the switch and at least youll get good money for the gear!
B->
http://zip.4chan.org/p/res/461349.html
Look at the exif of the deleted files that got left behind… How odd…
that is interesting, though I would suspect fake. the exif data supports a 1.3x crop, since 135mm f/2 is an equiv of 175 on ff.
Why are you assuming that the fact that a 1DsMkIII is nearly twice the price of a 1DMkIII is anything other Canon ripping off (also called “extracting the maximum value from the customer”) its own 1DsMkIII customers? Look at the price difference between the 1DsMkIII and 5DMkII! A 12MP FF 1DMkIII, which is what that model should have been, should cost only 10% more than the actual 1DMkIII with the 1DsMkIII costing an additional 10%: $2700 for the 5DMkII, $4500 for a FF 1DMkIII (currently, at B&H, the 1DMkIII sells for $4000 and the D3 for $4600) and $5000 for a 1DsMkIII.
I find the “Adobe Photoshop CS5 Macintosh Beta 5” interesting as well.
Exactly. They don’t give test cameras to just anyone. NDA’s are serious business, and I’m sure one from Canon’s legal dept would be very restrictive. Totally not worth it to any tester to leak anything about the camera. I sign NDA’s all the time for work and I have to follow specific chain of custody protocals for my gear and images, and can only process and edit images on a dedicated computer with no internet connection. So I don’t buy any of these supposed leaks from testers.
So this will be NTSC only (video)camera too like 5D MK II. Nikon will come with a bang with their new 25p/30p camera to the huge PAL market.
Yes, it’s a part of the New New World Order, Europe gets Nikon and the USA gets Canon, enjoy the 720p over there. lol
The H was Canon’s first pro digital camera/sensor, introduced with the 1D. At the time it made sense to keep it for faster FPS when the 1Ds came out due to the hardware constraints. Those constraints do not exist anymore, and Nikon proved it with the D3’s fast FF body. So there is no reason to keep the H other than tradition – all traditions run their course and should be retired at some point. Now would be a good time for APS-H.
PAL market is way bigger than small NTSC market in north america. New Nikon will have 1080p and 25p/30p options so Nikon will take over the new DSLR video era.
Oh really? Nikon has stuck you with 24p so far! There’s no 25p on the D90 or the D5000! My guess is you will get 1080 24p but not 25p from Nikon.
oh really.. nikon fast AF, like real.
do some home work before spreading rumors!
Will be much more believable if nikon accurate AF.
While i appreciate that the sensor was originally designed as a bodge, surely if there is a market then it is still valid. If we are purely talking tradition then the 1.5/1.6 crop cameras are equally as invalid and the same argument could be applied to 35mm vs medium format…..
B->
As i dont design and build cameras for a living i dont know exactly how much they ‘should’ cost and im fairly sure most people dont. Everything has a market value that it can sustain and i personally dont think that applying a simple formula of x should cost a % more than y is the amswer. However you will generally find that increases are usually logarithmic and not proportional in the world of technology and indeed many areas where performance is measured. I still dont get why FF champions are having such a hard time with non-FF sensors and if someone can explain it to me without simply saying that they are right and everyone else is wrong then im happy to listen. Until then if Canon want to make 1.3/1.6 crop cameras aswell as FF then im ok with that.
B->
If Canon makes a 1.3x crop 1DMkIV, will they also make a FF version, not a FF 1DsMkIV but a version of the 1DMkIV, with high ISO noise characteristics which are better than the Nikon D3 and D700? I think it’s safe to say: No, they will not! That is why FF fanatics like me are so annoyed at the possibility of a 1.3X 1DMkIV, because of what will NOT be built instead.
Ultimately the issue is one of large pixels vs. small pixels. Currently I own and use a 5D and 40D. If I were starting over, I’d own a Nikon D300 and D700, both of which are 12MP cameras. The large-pixel D700 would be used most of the time, with the small-pixel D300 only being used when the subject is so small in the viewfinder that I need the effective enlargement that comes from using a smaller-pixel camera. Consider the alternatives: (1) using a longer lens, which I may not have, (2) using a TC, which may not be possible and/or (3) cropping the image, either in camera or in post processing, which will probably yield the worst image of all the choices.
The problem there is both Canon and Nikon have developed APS-C lenses, and they are not going to make all those EF-S lenses obsolete by going FF on every body. APS-H has no deidicated lens issues and there is only one body that uses it. It should go FF.
MF is a different issue entirely as Canon/Nikon would make all their lenses obsolete by making their DSLR bodies with MF size sensors so you analogy there doesn’t apply.
As some of the FF crowd have decided that Canon will not make the camera they want then sell up and move to Nikon. If you want a D3/D300/D700 with a Canon badge it isnt going to happen so make the most of the fact that you will get decent money for your gear and reinvest in Nikon. I know of a few people who have done it as they wanted the features that were available and they are happy with their decision. Constantly whining that you are going to leave Canon if they dont do what you want is not going to make any difference so make the move and be happy.
B->
Yes indeed there are lenses etc available just for APS-C but the underlying fact is that there is a market for them and if there is a market for APS-H then Canon should still support it. As ive stated above if this is such a big problem for the anti-H crowd then sell up and go get the Nikon you want rather than blowing gaskets telling Canon they are wrong. I know this doesnt help agency people with supplied gear but they do have the advantage of not spending their own money in the first place.
ok, but is it too much to ask for a choice? a APS-H and a FF 1D? or why is it that when you go to Canon’s website and click ‘Canon Advantages’ it lists FF CMOS sensors as one if the purchaser of a new $4500 1D body doesn’t receive that advantage? perhaps APS-H should be under ‘Canon advantages’ then. I’m not threatening a Nikon switch, I simply prefer Canon equipment, nuff said, but I would like a high (or at least decent (8+) fps FF pro body. Is there really NOT a market for that?
Why do people keep whining about 1.3x crop?
I don’t see those that require fast shutter speed (i.e. PJ, Sports and Birders) take many wide-angle landscape photos.
There will surely be an FF 1Ds4 for those that photo landscapes.
Agree Niko
My 40D outperforms a D40 so Nikon better improve. Or else…I mean that is silly is it not?
I am trying to understand what is so fantastic about Nikon. My dad is into Nikon. I bought into Canon about two years ago when i started getting more serious. At the time, to me, the Canon system was superior. I had no vested interest.
Today, Nikon has some nice bodies in the top range but I think anybody thinking there is enough difference to liquidate one to go to the other has too much money and ego and not enough skill.
Canon still has a wider selection of lenses etc. And make no mistake, the new 1D4 and 1Ds4 will blow anything on the market at the time of release clear out of the water. So will you then go back to Canon? Only to go back to Nikon when they release their next D4 etc a year later?
The next 1D4 will be a disaster. Sell all your kit now. I am looking for some cheap L glass!
Nathan, there is a market for Price Point you are describing that is not evidence of demand for APS-C – it’s only evidence is there is no other option. Anyone with $900 to spend for a DSLR with lens only has once choice: which brand of APS-C camera they can get. I’m quite certain if someone made a FF body with lens for $900 it would take over that market price point.
If Canon were to release a FF 1D4 and APS-H 1D4 side by side I have no doubt the FF version sales would completely destroy the APS-H sales. The only reason the H sells is because Canon has not given us a choice for that price point in a high speed pro body.
Zac, I have no problem with there being a choice and it would be nice but it is naive to think that a FF 1D would have all of the speed etc of an H model at the same price. At the very least it would require much greater processing power and buffer memory which would up the price markedly or you would need to lower the pixel count markedly which isnt going to happen.
David, i disagree that it is purely a price point thing as a number of users like the APS-C as they dont have to go out and buy very expensive long glass, which is another problem with FF sensors – you need decent glass to use it. As for $900 FF camera – thats a long way off. I seriously doubt a FF 1D4 would destroy H sales as there is no practical way of making them the same price and therefore people would buy what they can afford (and/or want) to do the job.
then tell me how Nikon, with a slower and less responsive AF system can get 9fps with AF from a FF camera that’s only 6 months younger than the 1D mkIII. we’re not talking an important difference there. 9 and 10 fps are going to get the same results 95% of the time, so I do not buy this ‘mirror moves faster’ stuff, at least not that it moves sufficiently faster to provide any benefit.
Oh and by the way, the D3 is basically the same price as a 1D mkIII. so unless Nikon can do something that Canon can’t, which I do not believe, they’re is no good reason for an H sized sensor and mirror.
how would they be priced so differently anyway?
Also please explain how the resolution would need to be decreased in order to maintain motordrive speeds. 16MP FF requires the same processing power as 16MP APS-H, so have the same processor, you get the same drive speed except what is limited by the mirror, and with that the AF system.
I swear if they do something stupid like give us a 15fps APS-H camera that can’t AF past 10 fps I’m going to fly to Japan and kick the 1D4 project manager in the balls.
I love all of my Canon gear and when I bought it I was super excited and still am. When I first started out I was shooting press (sports) and now I have changed over to portraits and interiors. I wanted to keep things light weight so I went with the 580 and my lights. I just wish Canon would step up and make a better system for lighting.
I will be buying a Mark4 ASAP.
We should be starting to hear some decent rumbles by now…..
Even some firm hush hush rumours from a few of the crafty testers.
Someone should be leaning hard on Galbraith. That bugger will be holding out on us right now you can bet your bottom dollar!
He has been very quiet of late….
Why don’t you use Nikon’s lighting system?
Why FF????
First of all, canon has no good lens for ff sensors
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/427-canon_1740_4_5d
http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/435-canon_1635_28_5d
“If you require at least a decent corner resolution you should stick to f/11 at this focal length.”
Stop down to f/11??? Brilliant.
And second, as a wedding photographer i don´t see the benefit. 16mm @ 1,3 is not enough wide angle????
What kind of weddings are we talking about?
Notorious BIG & Queen Latifah in a phonebox or what?
I want a weather sealed, fast, good handling tool without all the unnecessary HD-movie crap and a perfect pixel/cm² ratio and the actual MkIII does a great job.
The only downside is the missing internal flash control for rremote flashes. THAT needs to be fixed
Nice introduce!I just have new choice to ordering Digital camera stuff.I have new baby and I want high-speedshutter digit cam to plan her photo.