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Canon's RED?
Received this spec list in regards to a video camera with an EF mount.
Specifications
– Unconventional case, more like a Hasselblad.
– Alloy heatsink for extended shoot times and lower heat related picture noise.
– FF 4k sensor, no line skipping and much reduced jello effect
– ISO 100-1600
– Pellicle Mirror however it can be flipped up if a OVF isn't required to regain the lost 2/3 stop.
– EF fitment
– AF when pellicle mirror is down
– Digital Follow focus to control lenses electronically
– Twin CF slots
– Add on module with SSD drive for extended shooting, like a virtual film mag.
– 4:4:4 SDI out
– HDMI out
– 3D LUT capacity
This is currently a “skunk works project that was initiated with the 5D video explosion. Designed to be a base body, leveraging the existing EF glass. 3rd parties left to develop rails, matte boxes etc.”
cr
Sounds awsome. :)
Ummm the g is real close to the t … might wanna fix that
Did you mean ‘from retards’?
“Received this spec list in retards to a video camera with an EF mount.”
Tip: Type what you want others to read, not what you are thinking
Seems like a wish list rather than a real product.
If it’s real, however, I’ll take two.
That all sounds too good to be true…
Probably “in regards”
All for the low, low, introductory price of….
$10,000…maybe…if we’re lucky!!
“Received this spec list in retards…”
I love typos!
This sounds like a cool idea – Canon should make it so.
Depending on the price, I’d seriously consider buying one.
Haha, Freudian slip for sure!
Perhaps it’s a reflection on the reliability of the source?
Hell yeah! I’ll take 3.
FF 4K sensor without line skipping, with limited jello effect and certainly improved noise, probably around 2 stops compared to the 5D2 in video mode, seem reasonable and even a good idea (as well as the semi-transparent mirror).
But actual video recording at 4K is another challenge.
It will either have to record a very clean “downsized” 2K (which is ok for anything but high-end cinemas) or rely on very heavy compression processing and very fast CF storage, which doesn’t seem reasonable.
4K photos will have fair quality and huge ISO potential.
As a comparison, the 5D2 compresses 2K at about 5MBytes/s, so it would require about 20Mbytes/s (and 4 DIGIC) to cope with 4K.
And this if the recorded pixel format is 4:2:0; not 4:4:4 (which nearly doubles the cost).
Anyway, unfortunately, these specs scream for “HIGH PRICE”…
Digital follow focus to control focus of lenses? Interesting concept. Mechanical follow focus is pretty limited, since the lens AF has a clutch that means the distance number on the FF cannot be relied on to be repeatable.
Makes sense in some way… The only thing that makes me think it has credit is the iso range, very realistic in regards of the target (cinema industry), and the compression 4:4:4 ! Ay caramba !! Finally some real deal…More than that the HD SDI out is relevant. If you take close look at the Signal over noise ratio of the best of pack HD camera the 5d2, the limit over of 35 db (after it looses too much details, drawn in noise, and the absolute resolution of the picture is a lot less than 21Mp in the case of the 5d2).
The only hic is for all the people who wished a small format body (like 5d2, 50d 7d…in contrary of 1d) to have a high sensibility 12Mp FF sensor camera…(4k resolution is approx 12Mp total).
This is already available with 3rd party tools I think.
Sometimes the most profound thoughts require the fewest words. In which case, that was infinitely profound!
I wish this was true…
Hmmm sounds like a $20+K camera… probably not happening lol. I’ll settle for proper 1080p with a less compressed codec.
Maybe 4:4:4 4k is only via the SDI and the internal recording is more restricted or you will be chewing through CF cards in very short order if they manage to keep up with the data rate required. My fastest card promises 60MB/s but at that rate it would last less than 5mins (16Gb)
If a camera like this is on the horizon, then a new line of lenses should be too…
Current EF lenses are not designed for “video” functionalities (even when they can be used with some workarounds or limitations). They have some design characteristics that will limit the usage of the “new” camera for serious purposes (especially considering that “specs list” that is is not an “entry level design” at all).
Well, no one said that the new camera is NOT coming together with some video-specific lenses. They can extend the EF protocol to support any such new functionality (like a useful AF for movies) and the lenses could still work on other EF bodies.
Still, I fear that movie specific lenses would not be something the average stills shooter lusts for, so this might divert a lot of Canon’s R&D resources away from the stuff the still shooter crowd is waiting for.
But I will let the movie folks have their lens if Canon also gives me (and many others) a refreshed 100-400. ;-)
Too many details on “how” the camera works… Namely :
– Pellicle Mirror however it can be flipped up if a OVF isn’t required to regain the lost 2/3 stop.
– AF when pellicle mirror is down
– Digital Follow focus to control lenses electronically
Bogus rumor…
…and a 35 1.4L II and a 14-24 2.8L …
It can only be seconds before someone demanding a 24-70 2.8 IS joins in. ;-)
Where’s the flux capacitor?
sounds too good to be true
Pellicle mirror? Hmmm… that would be a monumental mistake, so I don’t trust this one to be true.
+1 on wish lish rather than specs.
This is what happens when your wife call you for diner and you’re not done writing your message…you miss some words and you write non-sense babling…
Please read : ” Iso range 100-1600 (potentially extendable to 50-6400 for me), is credible since I think the absolute limit for Signal over noise ratio is 35db (below you loose too much resolution) and this is just where you fall when using the 5d2 at 1600 iso…”
Thanks !
Last year in Akihabara (april 2009) I bought a 32Gb 200x CF for just over 90$…
In China the price for top notch CF card, the Sandisk Pro 64Gb 600x (90Mb/s) is 4100 CNY, approx 620$…
It is still less than SxS and other PCMCIA-like card Broadcast gear uses. It is peanuts compared to what Cinema teams are ready to invest for recording media…
Just to piss you off (kidding) : I want a refreshed 17-40L with IS !
Lusted and desired lenses : refreshed mechanical design and optics for 50mm 1.4 USM, 24-70 f2.8L (the mechanics really sucks for this one…it takes 2 to 3 samples for me to get a properly aligned lense…).
I would like a new 85mm 1.4, with fancy optics and robust design. It could be nice if an extension of the range of the 17-40 could be achieved, like 16-40 or 15-45 f4…With IS it could be a raging success
I’ll take 4.
now there you have it! a dedicated video camera! now please canon dont focus on enhancing video on a DSLR, focus on improving dynamic range, iso noise reduction, AF and other worthy upgrades
Sounds like a mishmash of everything from Sony’s upcoming pellicle-mirror DSLR series to updates on the Panasonic 4/3 camcorder.
A wishlist. Yawn.
I think he forgot a “-” …
… Should be CR -1
Professional Motion Picture cameras use 1,000 ft loads = 11 minuets running time at 24 fps, 4 perf pulldown. Seems reasonable for Professional use.
As someone who has actually made a living in film/video production in Hollywood, the one thing missing is a body more like a real motion picture/video camera, something like an Arri Alexa http://www.arridigital.com/
Give it a PL mount adapter and it could be a RED killer.
A camera like this is coming from Canon, the question is when.
I am not surprised. Panasonic and Sony, the other two major video cam manufacturer, are already doing it.
Canon will be stupid not to produce a similar interchangeable lens video cam.
As for specs, well, it’s anybody’s guess. ;)
From a digital cinema point of view, this spec makes perfect sense. All features seem plausible in a sub $10K camera since Red, with their much smaller production capability planned to create a similar type of camera for under $10K until they reportedly learned of Canon’s plans to match/better their model.
The pellicle mirror solves so many problems for advanced functionality in liveview/video modes that the tradeoffs seem irrelevant. Having 1080 or even 4K video at 60frames per second while using AI Servo focusing is a sport photographer’s dream. If shooting strobes, you’ll actually see your strobe in the viewfinder! The market for such a device is much larger than digital cinema and it could completely change the sports shooting industry.
Remember that most of the focusing errors SLR’s have are caused by the mirror blacking out during the exposure. With a Pellicle mirror, this doesn’t happen. There is no longer a need for focus prediction algorithms when the AF system is continually receiving data.
Modern CF cards are plenty fast and large for 4K. I recently bought 400X 64GB cards for less than $200. We’ve used these on RedOne shoots without any problems.
Regarding the 4:4:4, option, that also makes sense. Canon currently licenses Apple QuickTime, so there is little reason why they haven’t arranged a license to use QuickTime’s ProRes4444 CODEC. It’s relatively small in filesize and currently only limited to 2K (which is still great), but it’s also compatible with 5D timelines when using the E1 workflow in Final Cut.
Another advantage is that Canon may have some key patents in the Pellicle mirror mechanism, which could keep Nikon and Sony off their backs for some time in this new category. I’m sure the suits at Canon would welcome any way to get their product into a category where it isn’t continually compared to competitors like the DSLR’s are now.
Those that have actually used the EOS1RS will agree it was the pinnacle of Canon’s film cameras. It was an absolute pleasure to use, and with modern ISO capabilities, the 2/3 stop seems to be a fair tradeoff for advanced live view functionality. If Canon has found a way to make the mirror lock optional, that makes it even more versatile in low light.
It would likely require a different form factor to house all the modern AF and electronic VF hardware in a place that would be out of the line of site to the sensor, so that makes sense to me. I also agree that a much larger heat sink would be needed to enable prolonged use in live view if all 12MP were actively reading out. Currently only 1 out of 9 pixels is reading out during video which produces less heat.
Exactly what I was thinking. It reads like a fanboy’s wishlist that was written while saying something like “if only Canon did this, they’d put RED out of business!”
Sounds too *bad* to be true. A low pixel count FF sensor will do *much* better than ISO 1600.
‘unfortunately, these specs scream for “HIGH PRICE”…’
I’m not surprised. Customers who are used to spending six figures on a rig are going to jump at the chance of spending only five. Doesn’t matter if it is four times or ten times the price of a 5D2, it’s still dirt cheap in comparison to many alternatives.
You can still use the much cheaper DSLRs to make a decent video, but there is a point on some commercial projects where all the extra hard work required to manage a camera that is not really designed for video just doesn’t make financial sense.
This (non-existent camera) will not be a camera for the mass market. It will be for those who are willing to spend a lot more than the cost of a 5D2 but who have few alternatives. Don’t expect a mass market price.
Regard only has an “s” if used with *as* (“as regards”), the rest of the time, it’s only “regard”.
Which means it should read: “FROM retards”… Lulz.
This sounds like a professional film-makers’ tool. There will be no shortage of lighting rigs on those projects. They are not going to be concerned about not being able to shoot in the dark if they have a megawatt of lighting on set.
So, yeah, the unimpressive ISO limit really is “bad” enough to make this rumour seem all the more plausible.
You didn’t happen to be the one who wrote the rumor I’m sure? :P j/k This reminds me of what CRGuy said about an old rumor: the most credible ones are the short 1- or 2-liners. The very detailed ones are very often from some technically-literate fanboi’s fantasy.
Anyway, why stop with a heatsink. Use an active cooling system, maybe even a peltier system.
And, what, no Jack Pack for HD SDI, GENLOCK or TCI/O connectors? No sale :P. New video-oriented EF lenses should have full manual simultaneous 3-ring control for focus, zoom and iris. Also, DIGIC DV III FTW.
hi…. it works fine with the 5dmk2! besides moiree…
here is ur short. entirely shot on 5d mk2
cheers
http://vimeo.com/12925116
Something as fragile as a pellicle mirror that can be moved up and down… that does not sound very reliable.
the same for me… someone thought about, what could be reasonable and what one wanted to have…
Well…. it would be nice to have a camera like this. But… seems unlikely.
I was a little surprised at the ISO 100-1600 though. If the pixel density is lower then why a more limited ISO range??
Agreed. Anything above 1250 ends up looking like garbage… if you’re picky at all. And pros are picky. 1600 limit sounds fine to me
i’ve posted at many sites for many years about the benefits of a Pellicle mirror when using iiveview in video and stills mode. But I didn’t start this rumor.
This does read like a wish list, but it is a believable wish-list considering how each feature would differentiate the Canon from current competitors. I work in marketing and this type of list is often requested by those creating brochures, etc since they are pivotal benefits that make the product stand out. Perhaps the source of the rumor was referring to the list of features that Canon Marketing wants to explain and point out.
I wouldn’t list this rumored camera as a video camera any more than the folks at Red consider their gear “video” gear. It is clearly focused on Digital Cinema with many fringe benefits to other shooters who want high frame rates and AI servo AF.
I’ve also wondered about that. Perhaps this has to do with the reduced Jellocam effect since CMOS sensors roll at a specific rate, and faster rates make it less sensitive to light? I’m not sure. Just a theory.
my guess on this spec of this unlikely camera
‘low’ ISO caused by pelicle light loss and need to keep heat generation down
S
… just thinking of the Rollei 2000 – a small 35mm camera with exchangeable film backs!
Why not? But would be nice if it is a full frame cam with EF-S compatibility (readout of smaller sensor area) and a higher resolution. Binning of a 20 Megapixel sensor for 2 Megapixels of HD video would enhance the quality dramatically: ca. 3 red pixels plus 3 green pixels plus 3 blue pixels for one movie full color pixel!!!
Hi Mthomas…I´m Alexmotion from cinema5d.
+1 [ cross your fingers]
Bye
Looks more like admin’s wishlist to get traffic.
This have-it-all camera will be a dream for movie makers but will not be available until 2014. Given canon’s track record of offering only what-is-necessary, while introducing a game changer, we will see a pretty basic stuff, just good enough to compete with RED and not a threat to SONY. Yes the camera cartel a.k.a canon, sony, pana still are in control of broadcast and movie markets
Specs looks like the new Nikon EVIL!
looks insane. I can see doubt and promise at the same time.. however consider where the world was at with technology 5 years ago… and then 10 years ago.. high priced or not, this seems entirely possible. i’d even believe it if they said the camera could float and not need a tripod or dolly… well, thats a stretch… but if it happens, i guess i wouldnt be THAT shocked.
Who cares video sucks