EOS Magazine interviews Mike Burnhill of Canon Europe

amorse · Apr 11, 2019

Very interesting - I wonder if the "pro" model will come in two variants with the same ergonomics and size - a high-speed action/sports camera and a high resolution model. Maybe these will end up being two sides of the same coin.

josephandrews222 · Apr 11, 2019

This:

AA: Which brings us onto APS-C with the R system…
MB: Yes, the system could support it, but again it’s not a priority because we have the M, and what we need to fill out is the lens range for the EOS R full-frame.

melgross · Apr 11, 2019

Well, no matter what his answers are, we can assume that both will be coming. We’re still in the 1D upgrade path though. So will Canon want that, and a pro grade R series for the Olympics? That could be confusing, even assuming that it could be ready by then.

docsmith · Apr 11, 2019

This seems to be mounting evidence. They have high level glass, they talk about rounding out the RF lens lineup, it only makes sense a higher end body is coming. The next 12 months, before the 2020 Olympics, really does make sense.

Now, will it overlap with a 1Dx III? I think no. If the rumors are to be believed, people trying to freeze moments and wanting high frame rates will be offered the 1Dx III. Then, I can see Canon making some great marketing claims of "using 70 MP to capture the finest details of the 2020 Olympics." Two niches, two cameras.

Honestly, as I think about it, what a two camera combination. Shoot wildlife with a 1Dx III and a big white supertile and then have the high resolution R?? with a 70-200 or 24-70 on your side for landscape or context pictures where you can zoom or crop with great detail.. Drool.

navastronia · Apr 11, 2019

docsmith said:
This seems to be mounting evidence. They have high level glass, they talk about rounding out the RF lens lineup, it only makes sense a higher end body is coming. The next 12 months, before the 2020 Olympics, really does make sense.

Now, will it overlap with a 1Dx III? I think no. If the rumors are to be believed, people trying to freeze moments and wanting high frame rates will be offered the 1Dx III. Then, I can see Canon making some great marketing claims of "using 70 MP to capture the finest details of the 2020 Olympics." Two niches, two cameras.

Honestly, as I think about it, what a two camera combination. Shoot wildlife with a 1Dx III and a big white supertile and then have the high resolution R?? with a 70-200 or 24-70 on your side for landscape or context pictures where you can zoom or crop with great detail.. Drool.

I think the real “million dollar question” is what anyone means by “pro body,” and whether that could even refer to the kind of camera you describe. Does a high-rez R count? Many would say that it does not. Does a 5Div successor count? I happen to think so.

EverydayPhotographer · Apr 11, 2019

MB: Yes, the system could support it, but again it’s not a priority because we have the M, and what we need to fill out is the lens range for the EOS R full-frame.

Yeah, as an M user, I can say “thanks for that kick in the teeth! Maybe fill out the M lens line if you really give a crap about it as a viable product...

neuroanatomist · Apr 11, 2019

EverydayPhotographer said:
Yeah, as an M user, I can say “thanks for that kick in the teeth! Maybe fill out the M lens line if you really give a crap about it as a viable product...

What, in your opinion, is lacking from the EF-M lineup?

KristinnKr · Apr 11, 2019

neuroanatomist said:
What, in your opinion, is lacking from the EF-M lineup?

In my opinion the most obvious need is a fast-ish standard zoom. Something like the Fuji 18-55mm f2.8-4. That lens also shows that it is almost definitely possible with the Canon M standard lens diameter (it is 63mm vs 61mm for Canon M lenses). Another one I'd look for if I were to buy into Canon M as a system is an internally focusing prime. Both the 22mm and the 32mm are telescoping. This obviously make the lenses quite slow to focus, and focusing speed is a very important factor for me personally, but it also makes them fragile, as any impact to the front of the lens is stressing the focusing motor, possibly throwing it out of alignment or even breaking it.

There are plenty of other lenses that you could ask for, but some might not be possible to do with a 61mm lens diameter. A fast or fast-ish 16mm prime. A short telephoto zoom with fast-ish aperture (like a 40-150mm f2.8). A portrait prime. But for me the top two priorities are a fast-ish standard zoom and an internally focusing normal/wide-ish prime.

melgross · Apr 12, 2019

navastronia said:
I think the real “million dollar question” is what anyone means by “pro body,” and whether that could even refer to the kind of camera you describe. Does a high-rez R count? Many would say that it does not. Does a 5Div successor count? I happen to think so.

Well, Canon intended the 5D series for prosumer users, but it became adopted by pro users as well.

What’s a “real” pro body? One with extensive weather and dust sealing. It also used to be described as being able to be used as a hammer in emergencies. But that last is too harsh for sensor driven bodies. Let’s say, a camera that can withstand hard handling with knocks and drops.

By those standards, only the 1D is a pro model. Same thing for nikon and the D5

navastronia · Apr 12, 2019

melgross said:
Well, Canon intended the 5D series for prosumer users, but it became adopted by pro users as well.

What’s a “real” pro body? One with extensive weather and dust sealing. It also used to be described as being able to be used as a hammer in emergencies. But that last is too harsh for sensor driven bodies. Let’s say, a camera that can withstand hard handling with knocks and drops.

By those standards, only the 1D is a pro model. Same thing for nikon and the D5

I'm aware that's the traditional definition of a pro body (rough and tumble), but pinning down exactly what that means today is wily, especially for the reasons you state (sensor cameras are more fragile). Plus, I warrant many more people who consider themselves professionals shoot with 5D bodies than with 1D bodies due to equivalent image quality and significantly lower cost. The 5Div and the 1Dxii are both rain resistant. They both have magnesium chassis. The line between prosumer and professional is pretty blurry where I'm standing, save for regarding FPS.

If the interviewer wanted to know if a 1D series R body was coming in time for the Olympics, I could do with less ambiguity (i.e., simply ask "are we getting a 1D-equivalent/style R body?" instead of asking if it was pro).

koenkooi · Apr 12, 2019

neuroanatomist said:
What, in your opinion, is lacking from the EF-M lineup?

With the 22 f/2 and 32 f/1.4 I'm starting to miss a fast 50mm. The EF 50 + adapter works, but feels bulky. And for really wishfull thinking: some form of MP-E 65mm, with strong, diffused ring LEDs and IS. A 40mm version that goes from infinity to 2x would be very well suited for the things I want to photograph. The EF-M 28mm showed what is possible.

Here's a clip of a mason bee shot with the EF-M 28mm. The crop factor for 4k really helps for macro, the non-DPAF AF on the other hand....

CampanellaFoto · Apr 12, 2019

I really hope that Canon pulls out a 1D X equivalent before the Olympics. I have tough time believing it since the Mark III is rumored, but if I’m going to stick with Canon I would rather make this mirrorless transition quickly while I can still get okay money for my lenses. Otherwise I will have to seriously consider Sony who I am sure will replace the A9 before the Olympics. I’m sure a lot of press and sports shooters are thinking the same thing.

Sony is courting sports photographers really hard too. I recently attended a Sony event with photographers from all over Europe where we got to try all their pro gear and meet with the engineers and give them feedback. There wasn’t a single photographer there who did not leave incredibly impressed with what Sony has available and is doing.

navastronia · Apr 12, 2019

koenkooi said:
With the 22 f/2 and 32 f/1.4 I'm starting to miss a fast 50mm. The EF 50 + adapter works, but feels bulky. And for really wishfull thinking: some form of MP-E 65mm, with strong, diffused ring LEDs and IS. A 40mm version that goes from infinity to 2x would be very well suited for the things I want to photograph. The EF-M 28mm showed what is possible.

Here's a clip of a mason bee shot with the EF-M 28mm. The crop factor for 4k really helps for macro, the non-DPAF AF on the other hand....

I’m stunned the footage looks so good. Bravo to you, and bravo Canon! Mason bees are also a personal favorite of mine: pollinators that are non-aggressive, since they have no hive to defend.

koenkooi · Apr 12, 2019

navastronia said:
I’m stunned the footage looks so good. Bravo to you, and bravo Canon! Mason bees are also a personal favorite of mine: pollinators that are non-aggressive, since they have no hive to defend.

Thanks! It took a few tries, the 28mm allowed me to brace my hand against both the lens and the wood, the lens IS helped a lot, it did have some more stabilizing done in post. Compare it to a day earlier, MP-E65 on an RP where I couldn't brace the lens, had double the working distance and no IS. And no builtin lights, those help a bit to light the shadow side of the bee.
For still pictures nothing beats the MP-E + Mt24-EX + diffusers from Ian McConnachie.

EverydayPhotographer · Apr 15, 2019

neuroanatomist said:
What, in your opinion, is lacking from the EF-M lineup?

The list goes on and on! From the get-go, Canon hasn't treated the M series lens line like a serious product. To date, there have been more M series bodies released than native lenses. Maybe I am misreading the M market - it certainly can do no wrong in Japan. I'm sure it is wishful thinking to hope for zoom lens options above kit-level quality. Yes, they're impressive optically. But they're slow as hell across the line. I would rather have the lens carrying some of the load in lower light situations than rely on faster ISOs and the problems that that introduces. Or maybe a native telephoto lens that goes beyond 200mm. The idea that, with an adapter, you can leverage the EF lens lineup is nice. But if you've ever tried to wrangle an M body around with a 100-400L on it, you know how awkward that can get. And truly - I bought my M50 for its size, and found out that it really didn't offer too many disadvantages over my old 70D on day to day shooting. But if I still have to drag around a big bag of lenses, what advantage am I really gaining from the small body?

The biggest glaring problem here is that the R series really reveals what Canon could be doing with the Ms if they wanted. Like most of their recent lens offerings, the RF lenses are impressive optically. But they've adapted to the size advantages of the mirrorless platform to make lenses that are smaller, or faster, or both. And they're continuing to develop it with the idea that people want native lenses. They've even developed a fairly robust - and sometimes surprisingly impressive - EF-S lens lineup for their APS-C DSLRs. Somehow, they didn't get the picture that people want lenses with the M platform, and that's a little bit baffling.

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