A Canon RF 300-600mm f/4-5.6L IS USM on the Horizon
- By stillviking
- Lenses
- 174 Replies
Non-sense: 1200mm is a "special" lens that sells close to zero. 400mm is a normal tele focal length.
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The argument that digital correction compensates for sensor coverage fails to account for data loss. When a lens like my 2009 TS-E 17mm f/4L or 2008 EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM is adapted to the R1 or R5 Mark II the sensor records the native image circle. If a lens requires extreme digital stretching to fix vignetting or barrel distortion it effectively discards peripheral pixels. This lowers the actual resolved detail compared to a native RF design. For revenue-generating work this "software stretch" reduces the quality of large-scale prints.
The EOS R1 and R5 Mark II utilize advanced "In-Camera Upscaling" and Neural Network Processing. These tools work best with high-frequency data provided by modern RF glass. Older designs like the predecessors of the 2007 EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM and 2011 EF 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye were built for film or early digital sensors. Their glass coatings and internal baffles often cause "sensor flare" or internal reflections when used on the high-gloss surfaces of modern CMOS sensors.
The Zeiss Otus series are close to perfect ‘optically corrected’ lenses.Why don't they just slap an autofocus motor on and charge $1000 more? The people who will buy this lens probably would still spend the extra money. Or they could make 2 versions (one with and one without AF).
Full-frame Canon 3rd party RF autofocus lenses? They would need a damned good lawyer!Why don't they just slap an autofocus motor on and charge $1000 more? The people who will buy this lens probably would still spend the extra money. Or they could make 2 versions (one with and one without AF).
But then it would not be available for RF...Why don't they just slap an autofocus motor on and charge $1000 more? The people who will buy this lens probably would still spend the extra money. Or they could make 2 versions (one with and one without AF).
Well, that can be, but can I attach that 'impressive' new Sigma lens to my Canon camera? Maybe with superglueIt's certainly a very niche lens without a doubt. The Sigma 35mm that was just announced in my mind is far more impressive.
Hello AlanF, long time no hear! Thank you for your input on lens design.Whereas I agree with much of which you write, I am not sure about this. The flange diameters of EF and RF are the same and so the rear elements of both have the same limits on size. Also, the further away the rear element from the sensor, the "straighter the light rays" so the longer flange distance EF should not be a disadvantage in that aspect. (This is different from designing uwa lenses.)
Whereas I agree with much of which you write, I am not sure about this. The flange diameters of EF and RF are the same and so the rear elements of both have the same limits on size. Also, the further away the rear element from the sensor, the "straighter the light rays" so the longer flange distance EF should not be a disadvantage in that aspect. (This is different from designing uwa lenses.)RF lenses are designed for the short flange distance of the RF mount. This allows for larger rear elements that hit the sensor with straighter light rays. This reduces purple fringing and corner softness.
OK, that semi-rant aside — to return to the topic of this thread, digital correction being here to stay, I have a few more thoughts:
First, I think that what the VCM line represents is a good thing. I very much enjoyed the classic Canon EF prime line-up of the 20mm, 28mm, 50mm, 85mm, 100mm, and 100mm macro EF gold-ring USM series. I now very much enjoy the L series upgrade for the equivalent prime line (but I kept the 20mm -- the rest went to my kiddo). With the addition of the 14mm VCM and the hybrid-shooting qualities of the set I do feel these are spiritual successors for that gold-ring line, but with an L-leaning bump in quality thanks to the passage of technology and time (in the same spirit anti-lock brakes were passed on to the consumer from airplanes and F1 cars). For the modern lens investor, the VCM line should bring decades of joy.
The fact that the image circle does not encompass the full sensor and digital correction is needed to make the full resolution image as promised by Canon in terms of the camera sensor is an implementation detail. You can like it (as some do) or not (as I am prone), but it is functional and the results seem overall good -- as least as good as a corrected image from a gold-ring prime, if not better. I think it's fine for Canon to pursue this strategy. Especially since it doesn't seem like Canon's software is making up anything that a standard stretch and lighten achieves elsewhere.
But I have been thinking about the lack of sensor coverage in another way. Canon promises a resolution based on a sensor when it sells a camera: 45mp for the R5 line, and 20-32mp for the R6 line depending on when you buy-in (I ignore the exact dot count here but do assume I am focused on the exact amount in the brochure). Here's the rub: if Canon were to move its total consumer accessible lens line to less than sensor coverage then I bet (and it's a very educated bet) that a class-action lawsuit could be brought to bear with the claim that Canon makes a false promise with its camera line as the advertised resolution of the camera is not being provided to the consumer. It likely wouldn't matter if the extreme lenses did provide coverage, because — and I speculate — likely most people buying an R6 camera are not buying $5k+ lenses. In other words, the economically-aligned lens options would not satisfy the marketing claim. It would probably come down to whether or not Canon could argue that the software transformation engine provided a de facto equivalent to the marketing claim, but were that true then there would be no need to advertise a megapixel count for the camera because AI can remarkably resize any photo to astounding outcome (indeed, a feature of the R1 and yet it still claims a megapixel count). So, I agree that software transformations are fair game for being a part of lens design, but I think that in the case of compensating for unused pixels the camera manufacturers producing lenses do need to be somewhat cautious. Third party lens makers would not be subject to the same issue as they aren't also selling a camera with declared capabilities to go with their lenses.
Put another way, Canon promises on the box and in the brochure that if you buy a 32mp R6 III it will take pictures using its 32mp sensor; Canon is not promising that it will take 31 or 30 or 29 mp pictures that get transformed into 32mp pictures using some software and a specific lens. But the VCM line with its smaller coverage and the software engine being applied is exactly that second scenario. If that approach were to become prolific then at some point someone will notice and make an expensive complaint.
While I was catching up on the latest birding lens for international travel I also looked at what Nikon Z & Sony FE mount has to offer.Nikon took another very smart path with their light f/6.3 diffraction optics (= PF) supertele primes. The Z600mm f/6.3 is ultra compact and light (my wife has one, as I posted here earlier, superb for light birding gear), and the Z800mm f/6.3 is also only about 2.5 kg with hood. Looks like both lenses fancy a growing popularity amongst wildlife/bird photographers. I think, economically it makes no sense for Nikon to add a Z500mm f/4.0 to the Z600mm f/4.0, same with Canon.
I guess for Canon it would make more sense to revive the EF 400mm f/4.0 DO in an even lighter, more compact and optically improved RF version, but I am not sure that they sold enough copies of the EF II version to do that. It is hard to find one of these DO II lenses on the used market, what could have two reasons: (1) only a few copies sold, (2) users love them so they still keep it.
Nikon took another very smart path with their light f/6.3 diffraction optics (= PF) supertele primes. The Z600mm f/6.3 is ultra compact and light (my wife has one, as I posted here earlier, superb for light birding gear), and the Z800mm f/6.3 is also only about 2.5 kg with hood. Looks like both lenses fancy a growing popularity amongst wildlife/bird photographers. I think, economically it makes no sense for Nikon to add a Z500mm f/4.0 to the Z600mm f/4.0, same with Canon.I think Canon's waiting for the Sony & Nikon's 500mm f/4 before releasing their RF 500mm at 2.45-2.55kg. This shaves 20-23% of the 3.19kg 2011 EF 500mm f/4L IS II USM.
By comparison 2.52kg's the weight of a 2008 EF 200mm f/2L IS USM. For that lens I expect the much rumored EF 200mm f/1.8L IS USM to weigh 2.2-2.3kg
As much as I sing praises for in-camera DLO's ability to correct optical aberrations sadly it cannot fix hardware limitations. Modern sensors like the 45MP R5 Mark II and the high-density 32.5MP R7 reveal softness in older EF glass. The EOS R1 uses a high-speed bus that EF lenses cannot fully saturate. Native RF lenses provide 12-pin communication for faster data transfer and more precise AF tracking than the 8-pin EF system.DLO has basically reinvigorated my entire EF lens stable. I have yet to see the need by means of final image quality or mechanical function to upgrade to RF. I do enjoy playing with RF lenses as my friends bring them by, but my EF stable has been quite fit for purpose for what I enjoy photographing when combined with the R cameras. My EF stable covers the focal range from 20mm through 600mm in primes and zooms.
In fact, I'm starting to doubt that many of the RF lenses truly have a quality or mechanical difference that justifies the multi-thousand dollar price hikes vs their EF peers. Yes, some clearly outperform their predecessors — but not the majority. I feel that many RF lenses are living off of hype from the cream of the crop and the fact that EF is starting to fade frm the shelves. Not that I blame Canon for making a buck, but I think many (but not all) photographers would better off buying cheaper yet more reasonable priced glass than RF glass, especially with the inventory clearing deals popping up.
To be clear, I'm not saying the RF glass is bad — it's great on its own merit. I'm saying mm for mm most of it is not worth a premium for the performance difference, for my experience, when mm equivalent EF glass is on the shelf.
Just last year in Canada the EF 50mm f/1.2 and 24mm EF 1.4 II when on sale for ~ 50% off, new with warranty, placing them in the $1,500 +/- range. They are more than adequate for all of my family and friends, whether they print or post. And I'm willing to bet that most photographers aren't so extreme in their needs that the size or focus speed differences are justified in job-accomplishing terms. At the Olympics? Sure! The new 14mm lens for astro? Yup! Photos of children at graduation, gymnastics, hikes, picnics, family reunions, or travel? Not a chance. Any need for RF in those moments for the typical well heeled person would be gear-head need (and yes, I can fall into that category too) or lack of EF glass availability due to time.
I say this as a guy who can afford the newer stuff. But most of my family and friends cannot, and I'd rather see the cost-benefit balance of Canon's EF lenses return to the fold. If smaller is what Canon needs to do to put good glass in the hands of family and friends going forward, well so be it. But history and competition shows this is more a modern Canon choice, and one self-imposed, than anything else.
Thank you! It was an all day event!"...seven different species!" - good catch and good photos!