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Mt Spokane Photography · Nov 5, 2014

Chosenbydestiny said:
Supposedly some say ISO 16,000 is usable on the 7D2, I've tried 70D and don't think it can go anywhere near that for usable files. I guess we'll see when more people actually have the 7D2 that use it for real world and rely less on reviews.

Welcome to the real world of Implied Performance.

I thought my car should go 200 MPH, the speedometer goes that far

Canon typically rates sensors for in-camera jpeg images with lots of NR. For most people, who print or view them on their smart phone, they look great.

Just like a D800, if you start viewing at 100%, you see noise and lost detail.

I had predicted that the sensor performance might reach ISO 1100 or even 1200 as rated by DXO. I was a little high, but its in that ballpark. That's actually pretty good for a APS-C sensor, and even ISO 1600 images can have lots of detail without too much noise. My old 7D could do ISO 800 before things broke up quickly. Part of the consideration is to see the slope of the noise curve. If its gradual, than pushing the ISO up will not degrade images as quickly. That's one thing I like about my 5D MK III, I can push the ISO way up without the image being totally hosed.

Mt Spokane Photography · Nov 5, 2014

jrista said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:

Patents for doing the per pixel exposure averaging have been around for many years. They refer to a patent from 2000, for example.

The novel thing about this patent is that it calculates blur due to the likely possibility of motion at the long exposure, and try to compensate for it. Sensors have progressed to the point where they can be better controlled at many FPS, so its a step towards actually being able to make something practical.

I'd still be skeptical about it being a practical thing to manufacturer, even if it can be done in a lab.

Click to expand...

+1. Totally agree...not a new concept, many sensors out there today already do HDR in a single frame with either multiple exposures or other various tricks. This particular patent seems to trade spatial resolution for higher dynamic range.

Personally, I thought that Aptina's multi-bucket pixel concept was a better means of gathering more light than is normally possible for each and every pixel. Aptina's papers describe the use of multi-bucket to compensate for motion blur, but the additional charge buckets could also be used to flush charge from the pixel to subsequent buckets for longer, higher DR exposures, without the loss in spatial resolution.

I missed that one. I think that there are lots of possible ways to increase DR, usually they bring a downside with them. That does not mean that they are bad, but it may limit a product to being best for certain uses rather than trying to cover everything.

sanj · Nov 5, 2014

hahahaha

Mt Spokane Photography · Nov 5, 2014

You vary the exit angle of the lens assembly to make a larger image circle and can move the lens further away from the focal plane. However, Canon EF lenses all focus a exact distance from the flange of the lens to the sensor. You will see lenses inset varying amounts as part of the compromise of distance / exit angle. Look into the rear of your lenses, the distance to the glass often varies. And, on some designs, that rear element is part of a focus group, and it moves at the same time different elements are moving to compensate and adjust things like exit angle.

Optical lens design is the stuff of PHD's and many years of experience. There is no formula to design a lens, its trial and error. Obviously, you can start with a existing design and tweak it, but in the end, its still ray tracing. This used to be done on paper, tracing light rays as they travel thru a lens, then making a adjustment, and tracing again, maybe thousands of times.

Now computers do this, but since the variables are almost infinite, discovering a new optical formula that is better than existing ones, and does not cost a fortune to make is extremely difficult. That's why Canon and others patent a optical design or formula when they discover one that shows promise.

I'm not a optical designer, but have subcontracted lens design for my project to another company, and watched the process over the two years it took to complete. They did the ray tracing manually on paper, because it was a relatively simple lens. The Chief designer had a PHD, but had to consult with other experts frequently to get the job done. The final product managed to exceed requirements, which amazed everyone involved, since industry experts told us that what we wanted couldn't be done. It was also very expensive, there were many dozens of the lenses in each of our products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_lens_design

fish_shooter · Nov 5, 2014

Don Haines said:
westr70 said:

Okay, that was worth reading. ;D

I just want to know where "off planet" is?

Click to expand...

Perhaps Vulcan, Alberta.....
http://www.townofvulcan.ca/

Live long and prosper!

Northbird · Nov 5, 2014

NancyP said:
Feisol CT3372 or 3472 (three or four sections, respectively), no-center-column "systematic" equivalent. You can get the center columns as accessories, as well as video bowls, etc. The 3472 is 4.5 pounds with retractable steel long spikes (4.0 pounds without the spikes), and the largest section diameter is 1.5 inches, maximum height without column is 68" (taller than I am, I never use it fully extended). It's bulky, with a very broad spider, but it will handle just about anything - it is a burly piece of kit. I would suggest this one for the larger Big Whites, rather than the smaller (2.1 pounds, leg diameter 1.1", 59" tall) and much more portable CT3342 or 3442. I have both the 3472 and 3442, the 3472 is used for telephoto work, the 3442 is used for landscapes and for macros.

+1 on Feisol. I've had the CT3372 for over a year and am very happy with it. It's used with a 600 F4 MKII routinely. Good value for dollar, reliable, quality.

Sportsgal501 · Nov 5, 2014

sanj said:
I have no way of knowing but there are lots of rebates and free bees being offered so I doubt about it selling that well.

I'm seeing a lot of that also, they're not sold out.
Getting just the body might be a task but stores seem plentiful with the kit version.

Quasimodo · Nov 5, 2014

Waiting for Godot... The new 100-400L

This just in from Cameraegg: http://www.cameraegg.org/ef-100-400mm-f4-5-5-6l-is-ii-usm-lens-to-be-announced-in-several-days/

K-amps · Nov 5, 2014

jrista said:
pedro said:

Thank you jrista for this detailled explanation! Will we ever come as close to such a great high ISO IQ as Sony demonstrates it, at the same or a similar price tag by Canon? I kinda doubt that, I guess they will ask another premium for that same thing... Sometimes I am pondering about purchasing a Sony A7s for the lowlight pics and keep with the 5D3 for the rest...

Click to expand...

I don't know what to expect from Canon. A lot of people seem to be intrigued by small improvements here and there. The 7D II brings some big improvements to the AF system, which is wonderful...and I hope the iTR technology filters down to the rest of Canon's pro line (including the 6D). Beyond AF systems, though...Canon really likes to trickle out improvements, as slowly as possible, and at as high a cost as possible.

I certainly hope that come 2015, they will be releasing something fundamentally impressive with a layered sensor and low read noise, for a reasonable cost. What I expect is that Canon will release something that impresses a lot of people with a layered sensor, and high read noise. So long as Canon keeps using their off-die ADC units, I don't think we will see any improvement on the read noise front, and I think if Canon does that, it will diminish the benefits of having a layered sensor (i.e. they will have much of the same problems that Foveon has...which again boils down to high noise in the red channel and high read noise.)

I hope you are not holding your breath on that.

I would venture to guess, you might have taken a look at metabones and an A7 to complement your Canon lenses ....truth be told; I have as well, but there are painful compromises to be made.

Canon uses a Sony sensor in the GX7 but insists on using old tech in the Full frame sensors for now... If the last 2-3 higher end Canon body releases are any indicators, there will be definite improvements in high ISO performance, but DR is not something the Canon Geriatric board is considering as a priority (at least in their public statements).

I quote from the DPReview interview of Mr Maeda after the release of the 7Dii: Where he skirts the issue of DR in Canon sensors whether because he considers it un-important, or some other reason... I get the impression, DR is not something Canon top brass is looking to improve upon as a priority, they feel there are other components to a good image it seems...

'DPR: One thing we know from our own testing is that Canon DSLR sensors can’t quite compete with some modern sensors from Sony in terms of dynamic range. How important to you is developing sensor technology?

Mr Maeda: We are very focused on getting the best image quality. I’m not sure what measurements you’re looking at but when it comes to dynamic range for example we consider image quality as a whole, from low to high ISO sensitivities and on balance we consider our sensors to be the best.

My ideal camera is one that can take a picture in any environment from complete darkness to the brightest sunshine.'

Seems he is still concerned about hi-ISO performance ala 5dii, 1Dx, 5diii, 6d etc than other parameters like Base ISO noise, or DR in general. With those professed priorities (like overall IQ in general): I am not holding my breath on them delivering anything ground breaking in the DR area... While I enjoy using my 5diii, I would not mind getting a 5d IV or 1dxs when it ships, if it competes well with Sony sensors... I love my Canon lenses. I would love them even more if Canon stuck the 810 sensor in a 5D type body.

jaayres20 · Nov 4, 2014

wtlloyd said:
"SARCASM" (def) - a swift bird that often flies over ones head.

vlim said:

If it had a sony sensor you wouldn't need 16,000 ISO. You could just keep all your shots at 100 and then fix everything in post. I can't believe that anyone would even buy a Canon camera anymore.

Click to expand...

It's even worse to post some comments on a website dedicated to Canon gear and don't use Canon gear, i really don't understand 8)

Click to expand...

Yes just to be clear I was being VERY sarcastic with my original post!

ecka · Nov 4, 2014

sdsr said:
For the reasons given by others already, I would go with the 6D too; superb image quality and you will likely appreciate the high ISO performance. What's more, all your lenses will suddenly provide a much much wider angle of view, providing significantly different ways of looking at the world - it's rather like replacing everything at once. And since you already have 17-40 and 70-200, you might want to consider selling both your 7D and your 24-70 (much of whose angle of view on your 7D will be covered by your 70-200 on the 6D) and buying a decent prime or two to fill in the gap and/or allow you to play around with even shallower focus (if that's of any interest to you) - a fast 50mm, or an 85mm portrait lens, say. Or you may decide that the gap doesn't need filling....

+1

treytexag · Nov 4, 2014

Best Buy Stocking 7D Mkii's right now

I picked one up at my local Best Buy. I checked online just now (November 4th, 1:38 pm CTZ), and a number of local Best Buys here in Houston show availability for immediate pickup.

So if you want one today, check your local Best Buy. If they have it, buy it online and motor over to pick it up . . .

;D

Trey in Houston

jepabst · Nov 4, 2014

dickgrafixstop said:
whoever's holding it

+1

Canon_Shooter · Nov 4, 2014

trick is wanting the clouds to stand out and nor be darkened by brush stroke and the "in camera" look i produce.

but its a 25a by the Kodak 'scale' or naming convention.

RustyTheGeek · Nov 4, 2014

See if you can catch any rainbows shooting out of the seams of the camera on the video! LOL! ;D

(Everyone really seems to LOVE this camera so far, so I figured there must be subliminal rainbow energy or something in there seeping out.)

Cinto · Nov 4, 2014

http://homepage.eircom.net/~edwardtim/photo/canonFAQ.html#3Q5c
Has a list of lenses with flare-cut diaphragms. Some current lenses on there are the 17-40L, 135L and the 180L macro.

FEBS · Nov 4, 2014

I will never sell my 200-400 lens for a Tamron or Sigma 150-600. The Sport version of Sigma seems to give good results. The big difference with the Canon 200-400 is that you need to switch in the extender to get a 280-560. That just seems to give you incorrect exposed photos. I never experienced that during switching in or out. I can understand that this problem is one of the drives to sell this lens. I would contact your dealer for that and try to find out what's going wrong, as I see many here on this forum who have no problem at all with this point.
Weight is not a big difference compared to the 200-400.
Max. aperture is really important for wildlife. I did find out a few weeks ago, that even after 16:00 the iso of the combo 1dx-200-400 dead go up immediately to 6400 and higher. With Sigma/Tamron you do directly start with f5, while the Canon keeps the f4 until 400mm.
Concerning hiring instead of owing such a lens, its quite clear. Look at the rental rates if you need to rent them 2 or 3 weeks a year. Then most economical is buying. See this lens as an investment. The value of the lens will not drop that quick. All the money you pay for renting that lens is really lost.

NancyP · Nov 4, 2014

Adobe boards are abuzz with questions about when ACR 8.7RC (the term for their beta of the next Adobe Camera Raw engine underlying Lr and Ps) will have 7D2 support, and I think that someone said that ACR 8.7 final version is due at the end of December, so I would expect that would be the first 7D2 support available.

Yiannis A - Greece · Nov 4, 2014

Hello dear friends,
this is my first ever post in this forum and besides wishing all my best to you and your beloved i'd like to ask for your kind tolerance and understanding in case i make some mistakes or presenting my opinion in not a very understandable manner from time to time, due to written speech mishandling and differences in culture and way of thinking.

The reason i start this topic is a video i just watched on youtube (awaiting my pre-ordered 7d MkII) where a "white alternative kinda Bob Marley guy" called Jared Polin, whose reviews i watch from time to time, uses his newly acquired 7D MkII for some initial high ISO testing during a night concert. The quality of the stills and video looks phenomenal (at least for an APS-C sensor camera) and i think our high expectations about the original 7D's successor will be fulfilled to the core (at least mine who don't care about 4K, mirrorless and other marketing crap like that).
This is the link to the video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPuaIMd09BM

Once again, thanks for the space, time and freedom of speech you provide me, wishing luck, health, wealth and happiness to you and your beloved.

Yours faithfully
Yiannis.

baervan · Nov 4, 2014

It seems too much to say that it bests the mkIII in terms of stills but the video is astonishing, leaves every Canon in the dust.

They should come out with more freaking leanses though and not the uber expensive Zeiss with stupid electronic focus ring.

MichaelTheMaven · Nov 4, 2014

Just thought I would throw this out there, I actually bought my Canon 7Dii last Wednesday and had it here in Hawaii by Saturday. My buddy also got one from them and it arrived on Friday. They are legit and have both with and without kit lenses. I usually by nearly all my gear from B&H but sometimes if there is a hot camera out there, they seem to be able to get them out there before everyone else backlogged with pre-orders.

Call them up, tell them Michael sent you- they will ship it out same day of your order whenever they can.

BTW- I am not compensated in any way for this referral, I just know how sucky it can be waiting:

http://www.profeel.com/index.php/canon-eos-7d-mark-ii-dslr-camera-body-usa-warrabty-9128b002-new.html

M

Eldar · Nov 4, 2014

neuroanatomist said:
@ Eldar – you might want to test your UWA lenses, if you find the slip-on caps annoying (I do, my only Slim filters are CPL, bought before they released the XS-Pro CPLs, which are thinner than the Slim).

I tested the 16-35/2.8L II, which can take even a standard F-Pro filter with no additional vignetting.

Thanks John, Interesting. As you say, the (always-fall-off) slip-on caps are quite annoying.

ecka · Nov 3, 2014

Valvebounce said:
Hi ecka.
OK My bad, it would appear I did miss most of the point if you only consider pixels, but don't the superior 1DX processing and circuitry raise its capabilities in total above that of the 5DIII, 6D? Coming back to a camera being a system not just the sensor, note comparing to Canon, not Nikon or Sony.

Cheers, Graham.

ecka said:

Valvebounce said:

Hi ecka.
Not sure what this is suppose to mean, if I understand at all it means that the 1DX is third to a 6D and 5D III. REALLY????? Is that in some parallel universe or here on earth? Or did I just miss the point?

Cheers, Graham.

ecka said:

5D3>6D>1DX>1D4>7D2>7D

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Are we both talking about the "Real-World Resolving-Power"?
Yes, 1DX has less pixels than 6D and 5D3, despite that it is a better overall tool. The "Real-World" part makes it difficult to compare different formats and technologies.

NancyP said:

Actually, 12" x 20" > 11" x 14" > 8" x 10" > 5" x 7" > 4" x 5" > new MF 50 MP CMOS sensors >> all FF and APS-C cameras. :

Click to expand...

Sure
...MF>D810>A7R>DP2M>A7>5D3>6D>1DX>1D4>7D2>7D>M4/3...

Click to expand...

I'm talking about the amount of information these cameras are able to capture. In reality, 20mp bayer sensor produces 20mp images, but it cannot capture all 20mp of actual data, which would represent reality (lens projection) 100% accurately. Huge part of the resolution is just made up (false color, noise, moire, AA filter, DR deficiency, color calibration). IMHO, the efficiency could be 20% to 50%, depending on camera capabilities and lighting.

gadgeteer · Nov 3, 2014

I used to own the Sony A55 & A77. I have to say that I really do love the EVF. It's a feature I still really miss. I love having the 'idiot proof' exposure view. So if I forget to change my ISO when I step out of the church then I can see instantly I'm WAY off. And vice versa.

I also loved being able to see the shot I took inside the viewfinder which helped immensely on sunny days and also people stay stood still when you have your camera to your eye. Once you move it away, people start moving around. So for group shots an EVF is a great help.

That said if I was a sports shooter I wouldn't be so happy with it. The lag was noticeable.

But the NX-1 does look like a very compelling camera. Samsung could be on to something here.

mrzero · Nov 3, 2014

I did 2 weeks in Madagascar with a t1i, 20mm/2.8, and 100mm/2.8 macro. The 100mm L did not exist yet and I was too broke and hell-bent on moving to full-frame, or I would have gone for the 17-55 instead of the 20mm prime. I also threw the 18-55mm in my bag as a last-minute back-up, but almost never used it. With that in mind, here are my thoughts:

You should bring a standard zoom. You will want to take pics of everything you see, at least at first, because the cities, countryside, and people are all very striking, dramatic, and photogenic. For me, I made do with the 20mm (32mm equivalent), but the zoom would have been better.

You should bring a second body. The lens changes did make me nervous, and we traveled during the dry season. It is quite dusty, everything came back with dust on it. I felt like Pigpen on the flight home. If you travel during the rainy season, I think you'll face moisture and dust.

I wouldn't worry tremendously about the zoom length. If you put the 70-300 on a crop body, I think you'd be thrilled. You could swap out for the 100mm if it is truly dark and get 160mm 2.8 with IS, and that would probably do quite well. We did not do jungle- or wildlife-type excursions, we mostly went to little zoos or parks where the animals were mostly tame. The 100mm served well for that, although the flexibility of a zoom would have been better. I did not really need the close focusing of a macro, I was not a big flower guy, and I had no intentions of hunting for bugs. I chose it for the quality and the 2.8.

If I were to go back today, I would have my 24-70 on the 6D almost full-time, swapped out only for the ultrawide, and then have the 70-300 or the 100mm on my cropped backup. I would not worry about low-light much, unless you have some night excursions already planned. When we went, dinners were long (to allow the kitchen time to procure the food you had ordered), and then straight back to the room for showers and bed. Because you will be TIRED. This country is extremely tiring, everything is hard work, even a car ride. Also, the mosquitoes (malaria) and just overall safety/security are concerns at night, so you probably won't be doing a lot of nighttime shooting.

Overall, though, pack as light as possible. I carried all my gear with me in a very nondescript black belt bag (not a photo bag) so as to avoid attention. When I wasn't wearing it, my gear bag was locked in a suitcase. If you wear a backpack, it will end up in the back of your van and frequently getting carried by "helpful" folks looking for a tip. I'd go for a shoulder or waist pack that you can keep with you in a cramped moving vehicle.

Note -- we were never in any real danger, but we traveled half our time with two missionaries who had lived in the country for years and spoke the language. We stuck out like sore thumbs (four tall white people), and a tour group probably sticks out even worse.

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