Canon EOS R usability issues

[mirage]

The R has 18 modes - 10 for stills and 8 for video including 3 custom modes for each.

another example how the video stuff compromises the design of stills cameras. guess what, i don't use or want any of the 8 video modes. And i don't want them (literally) being shoved into my face with every single camera, only because a minority of customers wants "hybrid" cameras.[/QUOTE]

 

[Viggo]

Mirage: you still have to push the unlock button and then turn the dial and if you’re choosing a C-mode from Tv that’s it far from one click.

And the powerbutton is there because around the shutter button it’s crowded with all the things you use more than the power button. At the same time the power button has to be easy to reach and out of the way.

 

[Viggo]

another example how the video stuff compromises the design of stills cameras. guess what, i don't use or want any of the 8 video modes. And i don't want them (literally) being shoved into my face with every single camera, only because a minority of customers wants "hybrid" cameras.

EXACTLY, that is my point. Only they haven’t done it all the way through with the R. They have dropped the Mode Dial to not have 18 modes there, as it was already cumbersome with DSLR’s. The option they should include is the ability to uncheck those modes you never use, like with the AF-modes in the R and AF and drive modes and shooting modes in the 1-series. That was my whole point....

 

[mirage]

Nikon and others demonstrate for decades that power switch around shutter works without any problem. in any camera from "entry level" to "pro".

But i did not even ask for such a move by Canon. They could have just kept the familiar design with Mode dial plus power switch underneath.

although it is not quite as good as a power switch top right around shutter button so you can flick camera on with right thumb (one hand) already while lifting it to your eye - in one swift move.

 

[mirage]

EXACTLY, that is my point. Only they haven’t done it all the way through with the R. They have dropped the Mode Dial to not have 18 modes there, as it was already cumbersome with DSLR’s. The option they should include is the ability to uncheck those modes you never use, like with the AF-modes in the R and AF and drive modes and shooting modes in the 1-series. That was my whole point....

aha! i am with you on that one. indeed a possible customization advantage over any "analogue/hard dial".

let's see whether it will be part of the upcoming firmware update for EOS R.

 

[Viggo]

aha! i am with you on that one. indeed a possible customization advantage over any "analogue/hard dial".

let's see whether it will be part of the upcoming firmware update for EOS R.

I have sent them the suggestion at least. It shouldn’t be that hard since they’ve already included it with AF modes

The reason the power switch isn’t below like on many of the others is there is no room because the R smaller. And they have it in the same spot as many other Canon cameras, they just don’t have the mode dial on top of it.

 

[mirage]

re slider thingie: i find it surprising that Canon was not able to implement it well. they were first with touchscreens and those were always "best in class". i would have expected them to get that slider "really right". but then, Apple also was not able to get it right on their macbook pro. (not sure if they dropped it altogether meanwhile or is it still there on most recent model?).

 

[mirage]

optimal implementation. as seen on a current, very compact, mirrorfree Canon EOS camera.

lack of C1-C3 and the stupid red "record video button" are the only issues here.

 

[killswitch]

I had the chance to play with EOS R a bit. My intention was to go through the typical usage/workflow to see how well it coincides my current style. I currently use 5D3 and used 60D to 5D4 to D7000 to D810. I love many features about the R, but some of the points the person in the video as well as others mentioned here is correct in their assertion. Can we get used to the new layout? Sure. But I felt Canon nailed their layout with their FF over the years and is the sole reason I chose to use Canon bodies over Nikon. It just works. So some of the choices for button placement and removal seemed a little strange. Why break something that already works.

I have a medium sized hands, the grip on EOS R is fantastic, I compared it side by side with Nikon Z (okay, grip wise), and A7III (sucks grip wisel). That being said, I felt a lot of placements could be tweaked for better usability. I mentioned in another thread, the mode dial on top is ok, but I felt I had to loosen the grip a tad in order for my thumb to reach it when I am previewing images on the back of the screen looking down. If you used their DSLRs there wheels on back and top work so well without even compromising the grip, I cannot understand why not use what already works.

The AF ON felt squeezed so much into the corner that you have to move your thumb closer to the edge instead of having your thumb at natural position which would rest closer to where the M-Fn bar is. I tried assingning the touch screen AF on the top right corner so I can use my thumb to select points. There is no way you can reach the left corner of the AF area with your thumb while you are looking through the EVF without letting go of the grip. Also the nose gets in the way a bit. Now I shoot in extreme temperatures from time to time, I cannot see its usability if I have my gloves on. The joystick is a MUST! I dunno, I will probably buy R or the next one as it has more pluses than minuses. I feel it will take a generation or two before Canon nails down the UX for their mirrorless. But it is a good first attempt.

 

[dak723]

... The joystick is a MUST! ...

So many folks criticize the R because Canon "removed" or "replaced" the joystick. Funny, since the R is basically the mirrorless version of the 6D - and the 6D doesn't have a joystick. The R has the touch and drag - the 6D does not. In other words, the R has a much better and faster way to choose your AF point compared to Canon's most similar FF DSLR.

 

[killswitch]

So many folks criticize the R because Canon "removed" or "replaced" the joystick. Funny, since the R is basically the mirrorless version of the 6D - and the 6D doesn't have a joystick. The R has the touch and drag - the 6D does not. In other words, the R has a much better and faster way to choose your AF point compared to Canon's most similar FF DSLR.

I mentioned above, I tried the AF using touch while shooting, your thumb does not reach the left quarter of the AF zone when you set the position to the top right corner of the touch screen. Using Relative mode you have to swipe several times to reach the left quarter of the AF points, with Absolute mode you render the left part completely unreachable unless you have big phalanges OR if you prefer to let go of the grip order to stretch and reach those points. Both "6D" and "60D" do not have as many points and do not cover as large a "real-estate" as the R does so I do not know what your point is. No one said touch screen is not a bad solution, it works but it needs to be more thought out. I suggest you play with the AF system in various condition while "actually shooting" to see how well the UX aspect is. It is good but it feels rushed. I feel it is something a major software upgrade can easily fix. I said above, it has more pluses than minuses and will probably nail it in a generation or two like Sony did.

Also, like most people and the person in the video stated - everyone has different ways to do the same thing so redundancy (5D joystick + d pad to select AF for example), and now touch makes the camera just more versatile. So, saying you don't need a joystick or the touchscreen or the d-pad is absurd. What works for you doesnt mean it works for others and vice versa. My two cents.

 

[dak723]

I mentioned above, I tried the AF using touch while shooting, your thumb does not reach the left quarter of the AF zone when you set the position to the top right corner of the touch screen. Using Relative mode you have to swipe several times to reach the left quarter of the AF points, with Absolute mode you render the left part completely unreachable unless you have big phalanges OR if you prefer to let go of the grip order to stretch and reach those points. Both "6D" and "60D" do not have as many points and do not cover as large a "real-estate" as the R does so I do not know what your point is. No one said touch screen is not a bad solution, it works but it needs to be more thought out. I suggest you play with the AF system in various condition while "actually shooting" to see how well the UX aspect is. It is good but it feels rushed. I feel it is something a major software upgrade can easily fix. I said above, it has more pluses than minuses and will probably nail it in a generation or two like Sony did.

Also, like most people and the person in the video stated - everyone has different ways to do the same thing so redundancy (5D joystick + d pad to select AF for example), and now touch makes the camera just more versatile. So, saying you don't need a joystick or the touchscreen or the d-pad is absurd. What works for you doesnt mean it works for others and vice versa. My two cents.

Sorry that you did not understand my point. My point was in response to people (not necessarily you) who complain that the R has "removed" or "replaced" the joystick. Since the R is essentially the 6D series in mirrorless, I pointed out that - at that level in the Canon lineup - there is no joystick.

If you are not used to the touch and drag - yes, I can see it may take some getting used to. Indeed, you may have to swipe several times. And yes, you may have to loosen or change your grip to reach the far points. I don't consider either of these things a problem, but yes, you are correct in saying what works for me may not work for others.

 

[Viggo]

Swipe several times? I haven’t needed to at all. Hmmm..

 

[killswitch]

Sorry that you did not understand my point. My point was in response to people (not necessarily you) who complain that the R has "removed" or "replaced" the joystick. Since the R is essentially the 6D series in mirrorless, I pointed out that - at that level in the Canon lineup - there is no joystick.

If you are not used to the touch and drag - yes, I can see it may take some getting used to. Indeed, you may have to swipe several times. And yes, you may have to loosen or change your grip to reach the far points. I don't consider either of these things a problem, but yes, you are correct in saying what works for me may not work for others.

Ok, my apologies. Ya, it is essentialy mirrorless version of 6D or 6.5D if you will. I loved the touchscreen for AF selection don’t get me wrong. I am hoping through software patch they will add the option to configure swipe speed sensitivity for users just like a computer mouse we all have our own settings for mouse trackball movement speed. I feel the R is overall a great first mirrorless and would buy as it has some really good stuff in it. Eye-Af I am hoping they will fix the lag issue with some software and firmware patch. Some really good bundles are showing up already. Come Black Friday it should get interesting as far as R is concerned.

 

[Tremotino]

It's nice of you to make it easy to recognize that you have no idea what you're talking about. Until you've spent time shooting with the camera (as I have, as I own it and traveled with it to New Orleans last week) these spec-sheet criticisms of yours are meaningless.

The mode dial thing you mentioned is a non-issue. It takes a fraction of a second to change the mode. Other quality cameras require a button plus a dial rotation. This is an invalid criticism. You can switch into custom modes very quickly.

The touch bar works fine once you understand how to set it up and use it. I use mine to control ISO and it's a cakewalk.

What the heck are you talking about with the on/off? It's a switch. It works well. There's no "precious real estate" wasted. My god what a stupid critique.

I'm left-eye dominant and the touch-and-drag works great.

You just don't know what you're talking about. How can you critique based on stuff you've read online? You're a joke.

I tested the eos R one day long.

You are absolutely right! It took me half an hour to fully understand how to customise and setup the camera for my personal use.
In my opinion it's a step forward in terms of usability and camera control, give that you are open to new technologies and systems.
E.g. The relative or absolute touch AF is so much faster and accurate than the joystick imho.

In my practical test, the eos R won the race over the other mirror less ff. Actually the sony 7r was the worst. (Quite funny, when the sony guy gave my a hand grip for my 3. And 4.:finger )

 

[mihazero]

Incredibly stupid criticisms. Almost everything he complains about in terms of buttons is fixable by customization. He didn't read the manual, that much is clear. The drive and focus modes can be set to toggle with button presses reachable with one finger. That's how mine is set up now.

I actually agree with Mirage on some points. Its multi step process to get simple thing to change. EOS R is touchscreen centric camera which does not relate to Pro users that need quick change of options as situations dictate and changes happen before You.

I did test EOS R about a week or so ago and while its nice in hand and lenses are amazing usability wise 80D is sooo much better. I could do entire event with rapid changes around me and be able to adapt to it with almost no time wasted on changing options. Now I know 80D is apsc and its button layout is simplified compared to 5D range, but still its more then enough to be able to change most of the things without ever lifting eye from eyecup and do so in split second. EOS R on other hand has some functionality that is wooow, but also some other that make that WOW feature almost unusable at fast paced events. If You shoot landscape EOS R is fine. In that instance You have more then enough time to look at screen and just tap on options you want.

Me personaly would wait for 1Dx form factor or 5D formfactor where everything is in button form. I am sure that pro photographers who use 1Dx care all that much if their camera is big if it does all that they need. In same way i dont care if next EOS R Pro body is as big as 5D or 1Dx if it gives me features i need.

 

[mihazero]

The R has 18 modes - 10 for stills and 8 for video including 3 custom modes for each.

So those complaining that the R should have the same mode dial as the FF DSLRs obviously haven't used the camera and have no idea what they are complaining about. If you really think an old style mode dial with 18 settings would be easier to use, please raise your hand!

It doesn't take a genius to understand that for anyone used to a different button layout, the R will be different. So it takes a while to get used to what is new. That doesn't automatically mean that what is new is worse. In many cases, once you get used to it, it is better.

I rented the R for 4 days. That was planty of time to reallt appreciate the ease of use of the new mode button, and as some have mentioned, the easy use of the button without taking your eye off the EVF. I customized the function bar to act as two seperate buttons - I did find the sliding aspect to not work well. But two butons (one for each end of the bar) works very well. Being used to "touch and drag" AF point selection from my M5, I now find this spec to be a must have.

This camera is really easy to use. Sorry to disappoint all the Canon bashers.

This is not PRO-centric camera. Modes or no modes ... its designed around touch screen as main settings input and those other 3 buttons on camera can do same thing with even more clicks scrolls etc etc. Thats wasted time.

At race track with cars going really really fast .. make changes on 5D or 1Dx is simple 1 button away. EOS R is just not made for that. I know it can do races, so can rebel apsc camera, just neither will do really good at it.

So from my testing and playing with it, I can only conclude its camera for people that are into more slower paced shooting style. Time doesnt matter as much.

 

[Larsskv]

This is not PRO-centric camera. Modes or no modes ... its designed around touch screen as main settings input and those other 3 buttons on camera can do same thing with even more clicks scrolls etc etc. Thats wasted time.

At race track with cars going really really fast .. make changes on 5D or 1Dx is simple 1 button away. EOS R is just not made for that. I know it can do races, so can rebel apsc camera, just neither will do really good at it.

So from my testing and playing with it, I can only conclude its camera for people that are into more slower paced shooting style. Time doesnt matter as much.

Owning the 1DXII, the 5DIV and EOS R, I wonder which changes you cannot do with the EOS R, with a turn of a dial or with a click of a button, that you can do with a 5D or 1DX?

If you include the adapter with a control ring on it, the EOS R has three dials, compared to two on the 1DXII and 5DIV. I have programmed the EOS Rs buttons so that I access the functionalities that I need with the press of a button or turn of a dial.

Therefore, please elaborate, which operational changes is it that you cannot do with the EOS R, with a turn of a dial or with a click of a button?

 

[mihazero]

Owning the 1DXII, the 5DIV and EOS R, I wonder which changes you cannot do with the EOS R, with a turn of a dial or with a click of a button, that you can do with a 5D or 1DX?

If you include the adapter with a control ring on it, the EOS R has three dials, compared to two on the 1DXII and 5DIV. I have programmed the EOS Rs buttons so that I access the functionalities that I need with the press of a button or turn of a dial.

Therefore, please elaborate, which operational changes is it that you cannot do with the EOS R, with a turn of a dial or with a click of a button?

WB change, Spot Metering, Drive, AF MODE (Single/SERVO), ISO (yes you will most likely put that on that ring on lens) .... i cant be bothered ... list is tooo long and putting few option on M.FN button then scroll then press Set then scroll again then press set again ... not quick. And way to change mode ... OMG ... that thing is ridiculous. Also what you want to say is ... "I can customize bla bla bla" where problem is ... i have to make my brain relearn that my options on top of 5D are now on button that is on complitely different place, also, i can do so for only few options because ... well have soo less buttons to do that with. There is a reason ADOBE never changed shortcuts for options in all versions of programs ... speed and muscle memory of users.

And i stand by my 80D versatility comparison. I would do much better with 80D speed wise then EOS R with all customizations combined at some fast paced event with lights that change every few seconds.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

This is not PRO-centric camera. Modes or no modes ... its designed around touch screen as main settings input and those other 3 buttons on camera can do same thing with even more clicks scrolls etc etc. Thats wasted time.

At race track with cars going really really fast .. make changes on 5D or 1Dx is simple 1 button away. EOS R is just not made for that. I know it can do races, so can rebel apsc camera, just neither will do really good at it.

So from my testing and playing with it, I can only conclude its camera for people that are into more slower paced shooting style. Time doesnt matter as much.

Absolutely, its not marketed or intended to be a 5D or 1D replacement, yet I see people complaining about lack of features only found on those cameras.

Yet, wedding photographers seem mostly happy with it, the one main drawback being the lack of AF assist on the flash unit. I see it as a alternative for someone who wants 6D II features with a few upgrades and does not want to pay the $4,000 that the 5D replacement model will cost. I bought mine to replace my SL2, and, for now, at least, am keeping my 5D MK IV, they can share batteries, lenses (I have no RF lenses), and since the sensors are basically the same, post processing is similar as well.

Although pro sports photographers somehow managed to capture some pretty good photos with those huge press cameras and 4 X 5 sheet film, it took lots of experience to gain the skill needed to use the tool. Its nice to not have to be able to just gun 100 photos of a event and sort thru them, but, as you say, sports can be done.