Canon to announce EOS-1D X equivalent EOS R system camera in 2021?

That’s also not direct evidence to contradict the anecdotal claim that Canon and Nikon shooters are switching to Sony in large numbers.

1. Sony’s marketshare has dramatically increased over the past five years.
2. Nikon’s marketshare has decreased dramatically over the same period.
3. Canon’s marketshare has also decreased and fluctuated over the same period.

What timer period? Early 1900s?

Aside from an article last autumn stating Canon took almost 25% of full frame mirrorless away from Sony, other stories tend to throw water on the "dramatically" vocabulary.

https://petapixel.com/2019/07/08/ca...in-2018-but-camera-market-continues-to-bleed/

There is fluctuation in markets the past couple years, but I am not seeing much drama yet in what's been happening. It seems that moderate changes may be what's occurred.

I suppose 22% gain in Japan from full frame mirrorless could be considered "dramatically". Although, a big change isn't a surprise with Canon and Nikon releasing full frame mirrorless. But 1/5 isn't pocket change.

https://www.canonrumors.com/full-fr...-canon-already-has-22-of-the-market-in-japan/
 
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I have an R and like it a lot. That said I’ve already sold my 5DIV and 1DX and will pickup the next Canon mirrorless body out if its a 5D style or 1DX.
A few samples shot with my R.
 

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Do you care to play the game of Canon losing 7% marketshare between 2014 to 2017 while Sony and Fuji increased? This the most relevant period when Sony was releasing the cameras that Nikon AND Canon shooters have supposedly been switching for, with 2018 being the time of speculation and release of Canon and Nikon's own FF mirrorless cameras.

Also Canon hasn’t regained the share they lost to Sony. You can use one year of data to support your claim if you want, but it’s intellectually dishonest and too narrow of context in the argument.

You’ve claimed to admit when you’re wrong when faced with facts. You’ve been singing the marketshare argument to shut down Sony fanboys in every thread without using contextual or factual data.

I’m curious what your response will be as you couldn’t do basic math the last time you were wrong about the length of the 28-70. Seems like you can’t see that 36% is less than 43%. Seems facts only matter if it fits your narrative on here.

P.S. You're welcome to your own opinion Neuro but not your own facts, as they often seem to not be in your favor. The irony doesn't escape me here. Even more embarrassing is the smug attitude you have toward those you disagree with.
I referred above, as I nearly always do, to the relative market shares for interchangeable lens cameras (“ILC market share”). Canon has maintained a ~49% share of the ILC market for the past few years, up from ~48% a few years ago, up from ~44% a decade ago. Canon’s ILC market share is relatively simple to estimate, since Canon publishes their unit sales data with their financials and CIPA publishes production and shipment data for the ILC market as a whole (I use ‘estimate’ because units sold are not identical to units produced/shipped, but they are likely to be approximately equivalent).

You are referring to and citing articles discussing digital camera market share, i.e. ILCs and compact cameras (aka point-and-shoot) combined. Given the nature of our discussions on this forum in general and my points in particular, considering the P&S market (which is essentially losing out to smartphones) is not logical. More importantly, I explicitly (and repeatedly) stated above, “ILC market share,” rendering your statements based on total digital camera market share tangential and useless as counterarguments. Ironic that you accuse me of intellectual dishonestly when it is, in fact, you being intellectually dishonest.

I’m sorry that you either don’t comprehend the terminology relevant to the discussion or are simply unable to read properly, but either way that’s really your problem, not mine.
 
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Photo Hack

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Apr 8, 2019
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I referred above, as I nearly always do, to the relative market shares for interchangeable lens cameras (“ILC market share”). Canon has maintained a ~49% share of the ILC market for the past few years, up from ~48% a few years ago, up from ~44% a decade ago. Canon’s ILC market share is relatively simple to estimate, since Canon publishes their unit sales data with their financials and CIPA publishes production and shipment data for the ILC market as a whole (I use ‘estimate’ because units sold are not identical to units produced/shipped, but they are likely to be approximately equivalent).

You are referring to and citing articles discussing digital camera market share, i.e. ILCs and compact cameras (aka point-and-shoot) combined. Given the nature of our discussions on this forum in general and my points in particular, considering the P&S market (which is essentially losing out to smartphones) is not logical. More importantly, I explicitly (and repeatedly) stated above, “ILC market share,” rendering your statements based on total digital camera market share tangential and useless as counterarguments. Ironic that you accuse me of intellectual dishonestly when it is, in fact, you being intellectually dishonest.

I’m sorry that you either don’t comprehend the terminology relevant to the discussion or are simply unable to read properly, but either way that’s really your problem, not mine.
Your use of ILC market share vs my references of total market share doesn't contradict the claim that Canon users are buying Sony cameras, whether it's switching systems completely or shooting both (my original rebuttal to your comment). That is the basic claim made by a lot of people is it not? That Canon hasn't come out with a full frame mirrorless answer to Sony's offerings over the past 3-5 years?

Canon can increase about 1% in ILC market share in the relevant time period of discussion....good for them. This doesn't prove that Canon users are not switching whether partially or fully. The increase of Sony's market share in ILC and Total is the most relevant evidence here, especially in the context of a total market share loss of 7% and now 4% or so in the past 5 years for Canon. The other relevant evidence is Nikon market share going into the toilet relative to where they were. Has anyone considered Nikon shooters also switch to Canon giving a zero net gain for Canon shooters buying Sony cameras?

I think it's interesting that since the release of the R, Canon has reversed their downward trend and slowed Sony's upward trend.

In the end, ALL of this discussion of market share doesn't give concrete answers on the movement of photographers from one brand to another. It simply says that Sony is increasingly selling more total and ILC cameras and Canon & Nikon are selling less total and Canon nearly the same ILC cameras they have over the past 5 years.

Anecdotal and observable evidence by many photography groups and individuals seem to suggest that Canon and Nikon shooters are buying Sonys, whether they're switching completely or shooting two systems (adapting Canon glass as well). I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude this is a real trend that is happening when ILC & total market share also corroborates this trend.

Canon is selling less total units, Sony is selling more total units, Nikon is bleeding bad. Canon's ILC sales are stagnant, Nikons are dropping, Sony is increasing.
 
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Your use of ILC market share vs my references of total market share doesn't contradict the claim that Canon users are buying Sony cameras, whether it's switching systems completely or shooting both (my original rebuttal to your comment). That is the basic claim made by a lot of people is it not?
I never claimed that Canon users aren’t buying Sony MILCs. I’m sure some are, and some are switching to Nikon. I’m sure Sony users are switching to Canon and Nikon, and Nikon users are switching to Sony and Canon. Canon, Nikon and Sony users are switching to Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji, and vice versa. I bet someone even bought a Leica ILC.

My point was and remains that Canon has not lost ILC market share in recent years. Therefore, anyone claiming that ‘Canon users are switching to Sony in droves’, that ‘Canon is hemorrhaging users to other brands’, or any of the multitude of similar claims made on this forum, is wrong.

Of course people are welcome to share their personal observations. But people don’t generally simply do that. Case in point, the post to which I replied stated they see a lot of users switching from Canon and Nikon to Sony in the context of a claim that Canon is ‘way behind’ and is ‘holding onto DSLRs’, implying a connection. The thing is, Canon remains way ahead in sales, and they make the EOS M line which is the best-selling MILC line globally. So his/her post was three piles of bullish!t at once. But subsequent posts made it clear he/she was a troll, so really not worth wasting more time on.

As for the rest of your post, again I note the irony, this time in your repeated references to ‘context’. You are touting Sony’s recent gain of market share. The context for that is that Sony had ~13-14% ILC market share when they stopped DSLRs, and switched to MILCs a decade ago, and up until about two years ago they held steady at ~14% market share. Then they gained ~3% share over the next year before losing ~0.5% last year. You’re touting a gain from 14% to 17% for Sony while Canon maintains nearly 50% of the ILC market. Context.
 
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SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
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I doubt very much you will see five full frame mirrorless cameras from Canon -- RP, R, High Resolution R, R "X" and your "two card R."

Canon Rumors Guy seems pretty confident about the high resolution and "X" R bodies, but has not indicated that the Canon you are seeking is likely to materialize. I'm also not sure Canon agrees about the importance of a second card slot. They could follow a shortened release schedule and come out with an R II sometime in late 2021 or early 2022.
Noted. But 5D is substantial more weather proofed than R and built to a higher standards. Canon understand wedding / events folks requirements to well to ignore this.
Single card slot issue can be addressed. Weather proofing to 5D level is a must though.
 
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CvH

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Last Friday in November. Well, someone could get really good camera deals on Sunday or Cyber Monday which would be both in December but most of the good deals should be already be gone.

Thank you! So most online stores will be on specials on Black Friday? I gathered that includes other stuff such as tripod heads?
 
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abnagfab

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Sep 6, 2019
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Do you wear glasses when using the camera? Does the diopter work just as well with evf as it does with ovf?
I have glasses, and the R EVF works perfectly, diopter is fine. Even better, the EVF can show shot previews and everything the back screen shows, so I never have to take my glasses off to see what’s going on - I just keep glued to the EVF. Can even playback the photos in the EVF, set menu items, anything!

The R is better than the 5D4 in almost every way. I tried to go back on my last trip, and it highlighted how much more I enjoy shooting with the R.

Dual slots not an issue for me personally, would love faster frame rate, IBIS seems neat but not critical, higher rez would be awesome.
 
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CvH

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Looks like it does just fine.
Those complaining are just trying to find an excuse for lack of talent and skill. So they blame the camera. You have shown that with skill and talent it is the photographer not the camera. Thank you for the great examples and perhaps those with complaints will work on skill set rather than blame the camera for their failures.

I gathered all the pros just get the RP and will be fine as they are all have plenty of skills and experience?? And if they couldn’t nailed the shots then that’s failure on their part.
 
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vjlex

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Upgrade a $3.5k camera to a $1.5k camera? Sorry I am not buying it :) Not in the same league.
While I agree with you in sentiment, it is definitely in the same league, and better in many respects. That being said, I upgrade bodies only once every 4 years or so. The R is not enough of an upgrade to justify the next 4 years nor replacing my 5D4.
 
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Ozarker

Love, joy, and peace to all of good will.
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*sigh* I truly do not understand all the hate the R gets in nearly every single thread. It seems, though, that it is mostly from people who've never tried one. So, in my opinion, their comments don't matter one bit. Watch all the YouTube click bait reviews you want. Go out of your way to act like you know what you are talking about and feed off each other's rancid ignorance. Is the R meant to be a sports/wildlife speed demon? No. Then again, neither is the 5D Mark IV. For what I do, the R is near perfect and a real steal at it's current price.
 

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I gathered all the pros just get the RP and will be fine as they are all have plenty of skills and experience?? And if they couldn’t nailed the shots then that’s failure on their part.

Or to put it another way, if you aren't a highly skilled or experienced photographer then all the Sony bells and whistles are well worth having to help to compensate for that !
 
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Well firstly the Eos R doesn't have IBIS

Secondly it has a slow and low resolution viewfinder

And when Tony Northrup compared the eye tracking to the A7R3 he said it was
"Slow but smooth"
"Significantly lower hit rate"
"Much worse than the Sony"

My own experience of Canon EVFs with the M5 put me off for a long time to come - I thought it was dreadful compared to an OVF.

Right now I have a 5D4 and I don't personally want to spend a very significant sum of money for an Eos R when I see reviews telling me it is way inferior to Sony

As I said - I love my 5D and I will wait until Canon have brought out something which represents a significant advantage - but slow innacurate eye AF and a poor EVF with no IBIS doesn't cut it for me im sorry to say
First off, where did I quote “IBIS”?

Second of all, if you use Tony as a reliable source I’m out. Time and time again he’s just so off the mark it’s just sad.

When I have about 97 shots out of 100 in any given setting dead on sharp on the eyes no matter subject, light or situation how can that be significantly worse than anything? Sony’s are not always 100% hit, I’ve seen that a lot of times. I also see that people have a VERY different idea what critically sharp is, I’m the picky one.

All of these claims from Tony and others that don’t like the R is seriously fake news, or as likely, they haven’t used them enough to figure out how to get the optimal result. One example is DPReview that always leave a camera at default and then complain. Useless.

If the R doesn’t meet your needs or of someone doesn’t like it, fine, I have no problem with that. But when they lie to make that point I have a problem with that.
 
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I am also an ageing wildlife enthusiast, but took the plunge at the start of the year to sell my 1Dx for an R. My primary reason was that I was finding the 1Dx with the 300 2.8 + convertor too heavy to lug around / handhold but also the video on the mk1 was very basic. I also kept my 7D11 as my second camera. As many have said before me it's a steep learning curve, but I have very little regrets at all with this move. It's not a sports action camera ánd was never promoted as such, mainly because of the EVF refresh rate but also as the FPS is not great. These days I tend to have my 100-400 on the 7D11 and the 300 2.8 fixed to the R.

Luckily I am right eye dominant and I find using the back screen for AF positioning far better than the limited AF points on the 7D11 and since firmware 1.2 I find myself using the tracking option (without eye AF) a great option as long as the background is not cluttered / messy and am really hoping 1.4 will enhance this further. To me I just love the IQ of the R over the 7D11 and over 90% of the time reach for the R first.

I simply can't afford to switch systems on a whim although my dream would be that Canon releases a 7R type camera (R and 7D11 hybrid) and an RF 200-600 prosumer type lens (a la Sony). But if that happens it will certainly be the 7D11 that goes first....
 
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I just got to see the EOS R with the latest firmware 1.4? at a Canon experience store, its quite an an improvement. AF points move far more smoothly and screen refresh with burst shooting much better too. Said end of the month for download release.

Also got to have a go for an hour with the 90D and M6 II, very interesting and confirmed Ive pretty much converted to mirrorless - Im too used to its control set now. The screen refresh, AF and shooting speed is very nice on the M6, and the 30 raw burst option was fascinating. The 90D felt slow by comparison and the VF blackout was quite noticeable. Was a nicer fit in the hands though.

I feel pretty confident about Canons direction with mirrorless.
 
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