Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[brad-man]

How many shots have you missed that you didn't even see while you were chimping instead of watching?

Memory cards are cheap.

He did say "after a day's shoot."

 

[Kit.]

I am chemical engineer, so I can understand technical stuff when clarified to me.
You can dive into details if necessary.
I understand your comments on 8k30 and 4K30.
Now I do not undersand why in 4K above 30fps you get a crop factor?

If the sensor bandwidth is barely enough to scan the whole 8k area of the sensor at 30 fps (which seems highly likely, alhough maybe Canon will surprise us), then you need to reduce the amount of pixels scanned at higher fps to stay below the bandwidth limit.

 

[brad-man]

Question the accuracy of Canon’s own press release images? On the contrary, I’m fairly sure that they’re accurate. Short BF distance also has its disadvantages.

I do question them. If they are accurate, then the converters won't be compatible with any lenses other than long telephotos which haven't even had development announcements yet. That strikes me as being silly and unlikely...

 

[scyrene]

No. Don't forget that with the new RF mount capabilities, Canon has
started to put the big heavy glass to the back of the lens, resulting in
overall better balance and smaller filter threads.

Although they have demonstrated with the mark III supertelephoto lenses that putting elements further back for weight saving/better balance (in telephoto designs at least) is possible in EF mount, too. I'm not sure RF has much advantage in longer lenses.

 

[scyrene]

Yes, very nice. Location, location, location. Video quality is every bit as good as 1080p when seen on my 5K 27” iMac at a distance of ~6-8 feet.

You sit 6-8 feet away from your computer?

 

[joestopper]

Actually they COULD make affordable f/1.4 135mm by using High Refractive Index Acrylic lenses with a sputtered and/or thin film vapour deposition sapphire coating on the front and rear parts of the element --- In fact, a company like SIGMA could EASILY ADAPT their ENTIRE Art Series:

14 mm f/1.4
16 mm f/1.4
20 mm f/1.4
24 mm f/1.4
28 mm f/1.4
30 mm f/1.4
35 mm f/1.4
40 mm f/1.4
50 mm f/1.4
85 mm f/1.4
105 mm f/1.4
135 mm f/1.8

and the

150-600mm F/5-6.3 Sports Zoom

over to Acrylic with a Sapphire coating and the Speeds would go up to f1.2 or even f/1.0 for the primes and the sports zoom would be f/2.8-f4.0 !!!

Sigma could do it and make the lenses for CHEAPER than the current Art Series lenses!

Even though I have access to high-end corporate video/still lenses and camera inventory, I would PERSONALLY buy those sapphire-coated high-refractive-index Acrylic Sigma Art Series lenses in an instant! Change over from Glass elements to Acrylic elements and those new lenses would be REALLY FAST !!!!

--

Acrylic lenses have a lower refraction index than glass. Would make them bigger than glass elements.
Why do you get the idea that acrylic lenses would be cheaper? The number and kind of process steps is what costs money, not the material itself.

 

[scyrene]

Love to hear from some owners of the IRIX 150. Dustin seems to rave about it. I have zero need for AF in a macro lens so there is that going for it. He says it's IQ bests the 100L. Plus it comes with an AS foot!

I'd imagine that AF was more important in longer macro lenses, as they're more likely to be used for moving subjects (like insects).

 

[Go Wild]

I interpret it to mean, one answer to 'why do we need 8K?' is 'you can downsample it into crisper 4K' (just a people have said they do with 4K to HD). It's nothing to do with what the camera is outputting. I think people are trying to second guess Canon's words too much.

It´s the Hype.....We waited so much for this one, now we are anxious....At least I am!! I have payed more attention to Canon release and yes, they do State they will deliver 8k video recording. This is my dream camera!

That's true that a lot of cinema camera users will prefer the form factor and extra features of those type of cameras. But there will also be a large number of people like yourself who may no longer see the point of owning a seperate cinema camera and stills camera when they can just combune the two.

I think it would be safe to say that if Canon did 8k Raw internally in this form factor the camera would be totally revolutionary! But like you, I'm thinking the MJPEG may be all we get... wouldn't the 1dxiii do 5.5k h265 if it could? I think heat might be the reason 5.5k is raw only?

Aaahhh so many unknowns!

We have to wait a bit longer to dissipate doubts.... I don´t care if only 8k is mjpeg if all the other formats are H.265! Well....let´s wait to see! Damn, July is sooo far away!

 

[scyrene]

So, there won't be an R6?

Why do you think that?

And any guess on the price range of R5?

Plenty of guesses in the thread above - but they are just that, guesses.

 

[HarryFilm]

Acrylic lenses have a lower refraction index than glass. Would make them bigger than glass elements.
Why do you get the idea that acrylic lenses would be cheaper? The number and kind of process steps is what costs money, not the material itself.

Technically, you are very correct in that Acrylic has a refractive index of 1.4917 while Soda-lime glass is 1.523 .... BUT .... since Acrylic can be fairly easily CNC MACHINED you can get those fancy symmetric and asymmetric compound convex and concave curves that help with light gathering that helps you get a FASTER lens. The thin film deposition Sapphire coating is for protective anti-scratch purposes only.

At some point year ago, I actually asked an optics engineer as to why more photo/video lenses aren't made of Acrylic (RI=1.4917) or Polycarbonate (1.5848) and I was told that scratches are the number one problem that is simply not easily fixable without special coatings. Plus the rate of expansion/contraction is an issue and "Glass-like Creep" over time may be an issue AND there is susceptibility to breakdown caused by UV light .....BUT.... she also said that custom formulations and coatings ARE starting to allow more use in video/stills imaging systems within harsh environments.

Acrylic/Polycarbonate lenses ARE cheaper to make because of CNC Machinability and easily-automated polishing!

For visible light, there is research into using doped Cubic Zirconia (IR = 2.173), Silicon Carbide (IR = 2.65) and Titanium Dioxide (IR = 2.614) to make ultra fast imaging lenses that have micro-machined (i.e. nanoscale) "Waveguiding and Light-shaping" structures (i.e. Nanopillars) to allow the creation of lenses that look opaque and/or milky to the human eye BUT allow optical wavelengths to pass through in a highly structured manner out to specific photosites of a nearby or surface-bonded CMOS sensor.

This type of lens is more for satellite imaging since photo/video enthusiasts LIKELY will find the look and feel of these types of lenses to be UNATTRACTIVE and unacceptable for their "hobby" or work even though they would be SUPER-FAST lenses!

In terms of MASS PRODUCTION LENSES that are TOUGH, heat resistant, glass-creep-resistant, a CLEAR RUBY or SAPPHIRE (IR = 1.77) aka Al2O3, would ALSO work as ultra-high end FAST lens material but it looks like we are YEARS away from production of large BULK BLOCKS of such material on a cost effective basis.

So as a final answer, Polycarbonate is BEST for making the fastest lightweight plastic lenses (i.e. faster than Glass) BUT Acrylic is easier to machine and polish! They just need to get the anti-scratch coatings right!

---

 

[David_E]

You sit 6-8 feet away from your computer?

Not when working! That’s the appropriate distance for watching an HD video.

 

[Michael Clark]

He did say "after a day's shoot."

He also said in another comment, "Not necessarily. I will delete images during a lull while in the field whatever the fullness of the memory card. "

 

[joestopper]

Technically, you are very correct in that Acrylic has a refractive index of 1.4917 while Soda-lime glass is 1.523 .... BUT .... since Acrylic can be fairly easily CNC MACHINED you can get those fancy symmetric and asymmetric compound convex and concave curves that help with light gathering that helps you get a FASTER lens. The thin film deposition Sapphire coating is for protective anti-scratch purposes only.

At some point year ago, I actually asked an optics engineer as to why more photo/video lenses aren't made of Acrylic (RI=1.4917) or Polycarbonate (1.5848) and I was told that scratches are the number one problem that is simply not easily fixable without special coatings. Plus the rate of expansion/contraction is an issue and "Glass-like Creep" over time may be an issue AND there is susceptibility to breakdown caused by UV light .....BUT.... she also said that custom formulations and coatings ARE starting to allow more use in video/stills imaging systems within harsh environments.

Acrylic/Polycarbonate lenses ARE cheaper to make because of CNC Machinability and easily-automated polishing!

For visible light, there is research into using doped Cubic Zirconia (IR = 2.173), Silicon Carbide (IR = 2.65) and Titanium Dioxide (IR = 2.614) to make ultra fast imaging lenses that have micro-machined (i.e. nanoscale) "Waveguiding and Light-shaping" structures (i.e. Nanopillars) to allow the creation of lenses that look opaque and/or milky to the human eye BUT allow optical wavelengths to pass through in a highly structured manner out to specific photosites of a nearby or surface-bonded CMOS sensor.

This type of lens is more for satellite imaging since photo/video enthusiasts LIKELY will find the look and feel of these types of lenses to be UNATTRACTIVE and unacceptable for their "hobby" or work even though they would be SUPER-FAST lenses!

In terms of MASS PRODUCTION LENSES that are TOUGH, heat resistant, glass-creep-resistant, a CLEAR RUBY or SAPPHIRE (IR = 1.77) aka Al2O3, would ALSO work as ultra-high end FAST lens material but it looks like we are YEARS away from production of large BULK BLOCKS of such material on a cost effective basis.

So as a final answer, Polycarbonate is BEST for making the fastest lightweight plastic lenses (i.e. faster than Glass) BUT Acrylic is easier to machine and polish! They just need to get the anti-scratch coatings right!

---

You seem to be deep into materials.
I understand that CNC machining is possible as opposed to glass. But, of course, CNC machining is coarse i.e. in mico meter but not in nano meter which still requires polishing. Not sure how it behaves at differing temperatures though i.e. contraction/expansion ...

 

[Michael Clark]

The 135L doesn't sell well because:

• It's 24 years old and what was once famously sharp is no longer
• It does not have IS
• It's only a stop faster than a 70-200 2.8
• Canon's 70-200 2.8s are pretty damn legendary

Only the last bullet point may be true on RF. If they made one -- I'm no champion of wanting this, I'm just saying -- it would either have IS, be faster than f/2 or both.

Just consider an exotic tele prime that Canon might offer. Mitakon pulled off a limited run 135 f/1.4 for Sony, Nikon still makes the 105 f/1.4 for F mount, and Canon's 200 f/2L IS (and f/1.8L before it) is pretty damn sweet even if it does cost a mint:

View attachment 188687​

I think there's *a* prime lens in a 100-200 range there in RF's future. Why not the 135?

- A

The EF 135mm f/2 L isn't just about how sharp it is or isn't. It's also about how good the out of focus areas look. There's still no other 135mm lens on the market that has as smooth OOF areas as the 135L.

Lenses today are sacrificed at the altar of the Gods of The Flat Test Chart, because that's all most anyone looks at when comparing lenses. The flat field correction needed to get the edges of a chart as sharp as possible while the lens is at best focus for the center of the chart also make the out of focus areas less pleasing.

I've been shooting with an EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II since 2010. It's a great tool for a lot of things, and I've probably taken more frames with it than any other lens I've ever owned, if for no other reason than sports and action shoots tend to be high-numbers-of-frames affairs. But if I know I can get away with only 135mm instead of needing more of the zoom's range, I always reach for the 135L.

Every.Single.Time.

 

[Michael Clark]

And who exactly do you think I added the stuff in the parentheses for?

The alternative to writing these images "slowly" is not writing them "quickly", but not writing them at all.

Or writing them quickly to another card...

 

[Michael Clark]

Nearly perfect design in my opinion Only thing I would have wished for: the power-on-off-switch on the top left is pretty much a waste of space. They could have put a classic mode dial there. And the power-switch could be at the shutter , which is the best place to put it, like Nikon and Panasonic do. ALso the screen looks a bit small (the actualy screen, not the blat matte in this image. Its seen in the 360° video that its smaller then the whole area).

Other than that, its perfect I am happy to see a dedicated rating button, something very importang in my opinion. Also so silly touch bar just an awesome button layout =)

I do not want a power switch anywhere near the shutter button. I've fixed them (or not been able to fix without tearing the body down, which I do not do for cameras not owned by me) way too many times for friends who have Nikons and the power switch gets a bit of debris down inside it.

 

[padam]

I think it would be safe to say that if Canon did 8k Raw internally in this form factor the camera would be totally revolutionary! But like you, I'm thinking the MJPEG may be all we get... wouldn't the 1dxiii do 5.5k h265 if it could? I think heat might be the reason 5.5k is raw only?

We can forget the MJPEG, Canon did in 2016 with the 5D Mark IV, which was the last camera to come with it, only the 1DC and 1DX Mark II had it besides that (and having a Digic 6 or older Digic 5+ processor)
It is either H.264 or H.265 it will very likely have the same Digic X processor, so it should have similarities codec-wise as well.

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

We can forget the MJPEG, Canon did in 2016 with the 5D Mark IV, which was the last camera to come with it, only the 1DC and 1DX Mark II had it besides that (and having a Digic 6 or older Digic 5+ processor)
It is either H.264 or H.265 it will very likely have the same Digic X processor, so it should have similarities codec-wise as well.

Good point, I hope you're right. Also have fingers crossed that the 8k is at least 10bit

 

[Michael Clark]

$800 or so and you and your lost love could be reunited. Canon refurbs sell out quickly, but they are out there occasionally.

Also, now that mirrorless unlocks the MF assist door, the Sigma 135 f/1.8 Art is supposed to split atoms if you don't mind 3rd party.

- A

I had been watching the Canon refurb store for over a year waiting on an EF 135mmf/2 L to show up. There might have been a time or two when I was away from the computer for a few minutes and by the time I saw the notification less than an hour after being listed "in stock" it/they were already gone. I finally broke down and grabbed an also relatively rare at the time refurbed EF 100mm f/2. A few months later a 135L showed up in stock and I snatched it up. The 100/2 hasn't been used since other than to do AFMA with bodies bought since then. I really ought to sell it.

 

[diegopisante]

I was really wishing the R5 was coming with personal buttons for ISO, drive, flash....that is what I miss a lot coming from 5D series. It's a pain go into M-fn button on an event and find what you need.