Review: Canon EOS R6 by DPReview

cornieleous

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Sure, but the big, beefy horsepower specs and major feature adds are all here:
DPAF II​
1DX3 sensor (i.e. outdated handmedown off-chip 5D3/6D1 sensor tech no more for this price point)​
IBIS​
12 / 20 fps​
Huge buffer​
Eye AF for all sorts of creatures​
Two slots​
Joystick​
Thumbwheel​

Or put another way, put the R6 sensor in the R5 and take away the 8K and nicer 4K features. Would you sell that camera alongside the R6? I'm not sure I would. That sensor is the beating heart of the $3899 value proposition.

There are all sorts of differences between cameras, but the features that get people pulling out their credit cards are largely available on both bodies. The R6 got hooked up. I still contend the R5 is largely asking +$1400 for a better sensor and the expanded video it can bring down.

- A

I see where you are coming from and you do have a point that the R6 was given an honest upgrade with good technology and even edges the R5 in a couple areas- the 6D did much the same to the 5D3 although they held back the autofocus system. The 5D3 was an option when I first went full frame, but the 6D checked most of the boxes I needed at the time and bettered it in a few interestingly similar ways as the R6 does now for the R5. When I was in this same decision before, I got the cheaper body.

I'll concede the resolution and associated capabilities is the headliner feature of the R5, and if it had only 20MP I would be hard pressed to want it as much and definitely not for $1400 more, but might still buy it to get weather sealing and all the rest. As a package, the add on differences are of some real value and like you said it is for each person to decide if they need any of the added features enough to justify the additional monetary pain. Canon are pretty smart at marketing though- they split out features some might find must haves to the higher model, while leaving the lower model still competitive against many other brands.
 
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Mar 4, 2020
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Perfect post - one more thing - it only costs about the same as the 5D4 did when it was introduced. It's a bargain.
It is also about the same cost that the old 5Ds-R is currently selling for, which is similar in MP, but far lacking in many other ways compared to the R5. (fps, autofocus, etc.)
 
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D

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Here is an R5 hands on review. Well, sort of a review of using the camera shooting models.


That was a lovely review. Though a lot of the time I kept thinking about how massive the 85mm f/1.2 looks on the R5 and how much bigger it was on the R. It is like Canon's lens designers where completely out of step with the body designers. Nikon's f/1.8's are all slower and less exciting, but they live up to the smaller mirrorless system.
 
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jd7

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Perfect post - one more thing - it only costs about the same as the 5D4 did when it was introduced. It's a bargain.
In my neck of the woods (Australia), R5 price is more like 1 series price, and R6 price is 5 series price (and 20 MP sensor in R6 does not excite me at all). Coupled with RF lens prices, if I have to go mirrorless any time soon I will have to look hard at Sony (as much as I've long been a Canon fan and as much as I've never like the Sony ergonomics). Still not cheap, but Sony body plus Sigma and Tamron lenses seem to offer much better value for money for my use as an amateur photographer with no interest in video. (Yes, of course I could use EF lenses on a Canon R body, but then I'm not getting benefits of a mirrorless system such as more compact lenses like the RF 70-200/2.8 or Tamron 70-180/2.8.) I have been very happy with Canon and the R system gear generally looks awesome, but I can't get excited once price is factored in.
 
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They have also told blatant lies, and provided "opinions" that bear no semblance to the reality of what they're pontificating about, often based on presumptions about how in their view a thing should work, rather than on how the manual says they do work.

Misunderstood victims they are not.
No they haven’t. I’ve been reading them for many years, and I haven’t seen any lies. What lies are you referring to? And all reviewers do talk about how manufacturers dont get things right, like the bar on the original “R”. It seems almost everyone doesn’t like that, and Canon said it was an experiment. Ergonomics is important. Menus are important too, and often get criticized. Look at comments about Sony menus.
 
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That's simply, demonstrably untrue - DPR has habitually criticised things in Canon cameras that they've given no mind to when they've reviewed other manufacturers' cameras with similar issues.

Specifically, they've reviewed Canon cameras in such a way as to present them at their worst - what they can't do - rather than crediting them for what they do well. So, for example - regardless of what else a given Canon might bring to the table - DPR would always downplay its qualities by making greater play of what (in their opinion) was an issue, whether or not it was a Real World failing.

Most typically, they'd frequently weight their overall opinion of a Canon camera towards the negative, simply because of the good old (and to most people, borderline irrelevant) sensor dynamic range stick-to-beat-Canon-with. A camera might excel in pretty much every regard, but DPR would invariably dismiss those qualities by dwelling on Canon's supposedly inferior sensors.

Time and time again. A complete lack of objective balance, and a focus on what DPR subjectively thought was most important, to the exclusion of whatever the camera did well..

There's nothing "half hearted" about a camera that does everything very well, and Canon cameras invariably do. Bells and whistles rarely make for a better camera, and being impressed by shiny shiny while ignoring solid, worthwhile Real World performance, does not make for a good, fair, objective review.
It seems to be a problem with you, and not them.
 
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davidhfe

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Most seemed oblivious to the possibility that DPR hasn't changed, rather it is Canon that changed. I was an avid Canon users for years. I anxiously waited for the release of the 6D II with tremendous anticipation but was sorely disappointed when it was actually inferior to its predecessor in several respects. I considered the 5D IV, but it was more money than I wanted to spend on a camera especially one that, to me, didn't seem significantly better than the M III that it replaced. I bought a 80D hoping to keep a foot in the Canon water, but there was nothing exciting about that camera. And I don't even want to talk about the Rebel releases. How many variations on a single theme can a company trot through without making any discernible progress forward?

There is no doubt that Canon has upped their game. The 5D3 didn't have the dynamic range of the competition and that really showed at the end of that Camera's life. But the 5D4 moved to on-chip ADC, brought the sensor within a half stop of the competition and that should have been the end of it (Uh, 6D2 aside...)

But DPReview has also changed. Chris and Jordan seem to be much better at reviewing *cameras* rather than *sensors*. In the past, DPR seemed a lot more focused on Rishi's (who--to be fair, is the science editor) articles about ISO invariance and is it possible to lift 5 stops without banding when shooting a horse trotting down a beach with the sun directly behind it.

Anyways, I've been reading DPR for over a decade (edit: omfg I joined in 2003?!) and they've definitely gone through some shifts. Not super fair to lump 20 years of coverage into a single "DPR isn't fair to canon" statement.
 
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cornieleous

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I can't help but chuckle at the number of comments asserting that finally a DPR review is fair to Canon. They're amazed that Chris and Jordan have finally shed DPR's anti-Canon bias and given a Canon product a fair trial. Some of these same comments assert that it won't last and the R5 will get the same old biased treatment.

Most seemed oblivious to the possibility that DPR hasn't changed, rather it is Canon that changed. I was an avid Canon users for years. I anxiously waited for the release of the 6D II with tremendous anticipation but was sorely disappointed when it was actually inferior to its predecessor in several respects. I considered the 5D IV, but it was more money than I wanted to spend on a camera especially one that, to me, didn't seem significantly better than the M III that it replaced. I bought a 80D hoping to keep a foot in the Canon water, but there was nothing exciting about that camera. And I don't even want to talk about the Rebel releases. How many variations on a single theme can a company trot through without making any discernible progress forward?

Thus, to me, Canon has been in a huge rut for years. Rather than biased against Canon, I saw the DPR treatment almost as a form of "tough love". We love you Canon, we know you can do so much better than you're doing, so why aren't you living up to your potential?

Now, Canon seems to have gotten the message, Maybe they were planning this tour-de-force for years--and just weren't ready when they introduced the R but knew they had to release something. It kind of reminds me of the original GodFather movie, where the Corleone family looks like they’re fatally weakened and are just waiting to be wiped out by competing families. Instead, in the penultimate scene, Canon, I mean the Corleones, turn the table and whack all the rivals in a single carefully choreographed, coordinated attack.

This is what the R5/6 offerings represent. Sure, video gets the headlines, but it’s the camera features and capabilities that will dominate the market. Incredible resolution (the A7R IV’s 61MP is of no consequence; I have to check the file size or EXIF data to distinguish R III and R IV images), competitive DR, AF and continuous rate that challenges the best sports cameras, state-of-the-art FF IBIS, and amazing ergonomics in a small package. And no doubt I left out several features including truly excellent video.

Hence, the question isn’t why has DPR suddenly given a fair review of a Canon product. No, the reviews have always fair. Rather, given the different between the R5/6 offerings and recent Canon offerings, the real question is why weren’t they even more critical of Canon’s half-hearted efforts?


Interesting take, maybe there is something to it with some reviewers wanting to encourage Canon.

I view Canon a lot like Toyota. Some of the most, if not the most reliable and tested platforms, but not always the flashiest. Yet they do innovate and then wait for several years selling that set of technology while still commanding the price premium. Each time they innovate it is often class leading or nearly, then they lag behind as the old stalwart but uninteresting.

Where I almost strayed from Canon was when I took up astro. The 6D, as ahead of its time as its sensor was for that market segment, could not keep up and had excessive shadow noise compared to competitors that nothing but excruciating post processing and exposure blending could work around, and even then 3 stops of noise was not going away. I wanted low shadow noise in my night landscapes but it was very hard to get while other brands were offering something that could. Instead of jumping, I looked at the system and what Canon was doing about the issue. They bought their own sensor foundry, they were not following the feature war, they kept producing well tested bodies that didn't have silly problems in the field like some of the most innovative brands. I went about 1.5 years of waiting and the 5D4 came out. I saved all that money changing systems and they answered with a camera near enough to any competitor in real world application as to be irrelevant. The shadow noise was gone, and I now had a much nicer body. Even bought mine refurbished about a year after its release to save more money, but I only upgraded because of a real world limitation I was encountering, not spec sheets. Canon seems to get bashed too often on perception and not real world issues by some reviewers.

I think Canon is a long strategy company and I would wager owning their own sensor foundry is going to preserve them when Sony cuts off Nikon and others from buying their best. Their refusal to race spec sheets doesn't mean they won't game the market like they did with the 8K feature here on R5, but I still see them consistently offering the best system of bodies and lenses, at least for my varied needs.

The one place I agree with others that was plainly not fair to Canon, is the entire review industry did not just point out the real world failings of a few Canon cameras, they continued whipping the dead horse and creating false perceptions about overall capability. There are, right this second, brand loyalists out there all over the interwebs claiming Canon sensors suck, blathering still about the cripple hammer, and other inane and baseless stuff, when Canon have been very competitive with sensors since the 80D, and always competitive in most other features. They have lead in rugged design and reliability along with Nikon for decades.

The dynamic range issue is the one I still hear the most, and it was ridiculous and mostly applies to low ISO anyway. It was a simple buzzword most people could grasp. The real problem was the ADC readout chain on Canon sensors was adding read noise. Canon then reduced read noise like everyone else with on chip ADC and it was clear that their read noise + random noise was as good or better than other brands. At high ISO, several Canon bodies have better DR than competitors as a result of sensor tech improvement.

Anyway, love or hate reviews, they do help us all out like brand competition by motivating innovation. Nice to see Canon get some good reviews for a change if for no other reason than hard work and quality result deserve to be recognized.
 
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Billybob

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That's simply, demonstrably untrue - DPR has habitually criticised things in Canon cameras that they've given no mind to when they've reviewed other manufacturers' cameras with similar issues.

Specifically, they've reviewed Canon cameras in such a way as to present them at their worst - what they can't do - rather than crediting them for what they do well. So, for example - regardless of what else a given Canon might bring to the table - DPR would always downplay its qualities by making greater play of what (in their opinion) was an issue, whether or not it was a Real World failing.

Most typically, they'd frequently weight their overall opinion of a Canon camera towards the negative, simply because of the good old (and to most people, borderline irrelevant) sensor dynamic range stick-to-beat-Canon-with. A camera might excel in pretty much every regard, but DPR would invariably dismiss those qualities by dwelling on Canon's supposedly inferior sensors.

Time and time again. A complete lack of objective balance, and a focus on what DPR subjectively thought was most important, to the exclusion of whatever the camera did well..

There's nothing "half hearted" about a camera that does everything very well, and Canon cameras invariably do. Bells and whistles rarely make for a better camera, and being impressed by shiny shiny while ignoring solid, worthwhile Real World performance, does not make for a good, fair, objective review.
So, what I hear you saying, is because DPR valued characteristics differently from the way you valued them, they were biased and unfair. Is that correct? Since high DR is of little value to you--or less important than other features--then DPR must put the same weight as you do on it. For me, as long as they provide their yardstick and tell me their weights, and they are consistent in applying them , I don't find them unfair. I just may not agree.

Now, don't get me wrong. I do not consider the 5D IV a bad camera nor any of the XXD cameras bad. To be absolutely objective, they were and are all excellent photographic instruments. But none of them pushed the envelop (I am intentionally not considering the 1DX series since that camera is targeted at a tier that I don't frequent); none were best of breed. The 5D IV was an incremental improvement over the III, but the jump to 30MP when Nikon had been offering 36MP and Sony 42MP for awhile was a huge yawn. And 7fps was merely catching up with other cameras like the D750 but trailed the 7D II and D500, which offered 10fps. The IV was a perfectly functional camera at the time of release, and perhaps, a decent upgrade to users of previous 5D cameras, but I got the feeling that several features had been throttled back to prevent potential 1DX buyers from slumming it with a more affordable 5D camera. Basically if I had to characterize the IV in a few words they would be cautious and conservative but highly functional.

This is where the lukewarm and tepid reviews came from. Perhaps it was bias, a bias in favor of cutting-edge, boundary-expanding technology. Canon just was not selling that until now. Personally, I'm happy to see Canon back in the game.
 
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In my neck of the woods (Australia), R5 price is more like 1 series price, and R6 price is 5 series price (and 20 MP sensor in R6 does not excite me at all). Coupled with RF lens prices, if I have to go mirrorless any time soon I will have to look hard at Sony, as much as I've long been a Canon fan. Not cheap, but Sony body plus Sigma and Tamron lenses seem to offer much better value for money for my use as an amateur photographer with no interest in video. (Yes, of course I could use EF lenses on a Canon R body, but then I'm not getting benefits of a mirrorless system such as more compact lenses like the RF 70-200/2.8 or Tamron 70-180/2.8.) I have been very happy with Canon and the R system gear generally looks awesome, but I can't get excited once price is factored in.
Cheap lenses like an RF 70-200 f/4L IS USM are in development. It's obvious which system has the most lenses, especially the smaller and cheaper ones (Sony), but also obvious which system has a stronger foundation with the mount and IBIS, ergonomics with bigger lenses, etc. (Canon)

The EOS R is still a fine camera for stills images and a very solid upgrade over the 6D II for not that much (had both) especially where dual card slots might not be mandatory to have and the video drawbacks don't play a big factor.

Sigma lenses are rumoured to come in RF-mount, we just don't know anything concrete about it yet.

A 2-year-old A7III is going to be more discounted that an R5/R6 that could be on backorder for quite a awhile actually, that's quite obvious.
 
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There are also some RF lenses that do not have IS installed in them. The 28-70 F/2.0 is one of them. I am considering a purchase but I want to know how much the IBIS alone will help to steady it.
They claim 8 stops of IBIS with the 28-70f2, 7 stops with the 50f1.2, there’s a list already from canon, so you don’t need lens IS to get 8 stops, depends on the lens and how fast the lens
 
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ahsanford

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would people move downmarket from a 1DX2 to R5?


Does a 1DX2 have:
  • MF assist through the viewfinder without changing out focusing screens?
  • The ability to use RF lenses?
  • A tilty-flippy?
  • 45 MP?
  • 8K?
  • Eye AF? (Through the VF?)
No.

So... sure. Folks might absolutely move from a 1DX2 to an R5 if they needed one of the above features badly enough.

- A
 
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ahsanford

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There's nothing "half hearted" about a camera that does everything very well, and Canon cameras invariably do. Bells and whistles rarely make for a better camera, and being impressed by shiny shiny while ignoring solid, worthwhile Real World performance, does not make for a good, fair, objective review.


I take your point -- their priorities seem to completely de-prioritize ergonomics, size of supporting ecosystem, overall reliability, the general shooting experience, etc.

But they are not being arbitrary about focusing on sensor quality and horsepower specs. They are not setting what the market wants -- they are listening to what their readers care about, and they make it a point to speak to those things in their reviews.

- A
 
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ahsanford

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But DPReview has also changed. Chris and Jordan seem to be much better at reviewing *cameras* rather than *sensors*. In the past, DPR seemed a lot more focused on Rishi's (who--to be fair, is the science editor) articles about ISO invariance and is it possible to lift 5 stops without banding when shooting a horse trotting down a beach with the sun directly behind it.


This. 100%.

I rejoiced when our favorite Camera Store alums moved over to DPR. Thoughtfulness replaced judgment at DPR that day.

- A
 
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They claim 8 stops of IBIS with the 28-70f2, 7 stops with the 50f1.2, there’s a list already from canon, so you don’t need lens IS to get 8 stops, depends on the lens and how fast the lens
Apparently Canon puts some sensors in at least some of their non IS lenses that aid IBIS in achieving more shake reduction.
 
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zim

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Does a1DX2 have:
  • MF assist through the viewfinder without changing out focusing screens?
  • The ability to use RF lenses?
  • A tilty-flippy?
  • 45 MP?
  • 8K?
  • Eye AF? (Through the VF?)
No.

So... sure. Folks might absolutely move from a 1DX2 to an R5 if they needed one of the above features badly enough.

- A
And if they need a camera to survive a fist fight they might not, nout to do with down market
 
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ahsanford

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They claim 8 stops of IBIS with the 28-70f2, 7 stops with the 50f1.2, there’s a list already from canon, so you don’t need lens IS to get 8 stops, depends on the lens and how fast the lens


I'll wait for testing on that. Chris said (start vid around 8:45) he was reeling in sharp shots at 105mm with the RF 24-105L at 1/4s.

We don't know how strong his holding technique is, how stable his hands are, etc. but assuming a 1/FL would be sharp in his hands (on that 20 MP sensor), 1/4s would represent '4.something' stops of IS, while that 24-105L is one of the lenses rated for 8 stops.

He may have super shaky hands or poor technique* and he was actually getting more IS performance than that estimate above (i.e. without IS he might have needed, say, 1/160 to net sharp 105mm shots). So we won't know what we're really dealing with until we have proper controlled [IS off] / [Lens IS only] / [IBIS only] / [Lens IS + IBIS] hitrate testing on a variety of RF and EF lenses.

*Kinda doubt it, though. He knows gear and everyone seems to get super focused on grip/technique when they are pushing shutter speed to the outer limits like that.

- A
 
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jd7

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Cheap lenses like an RF 70-200 f/4L IS USM are in development. It's obvious which system has the most lenses, especially the smaller and cheaper ones (Sony), but also obvious which system has a stronger foundation with the mount and IBIS, ergonomics with bigger lenses, etc. (Canon)

The EOS R is still a fine camera for stills images and a very solid upgrade over the 6D II for not that much (had both) especially where dual card slots might not be mandatory to have and the video drawbacks don't play a big factor.

Sigma lenses are rumoured to come in RF-mount, we just don't know anything concrete about it yet.

A 2-year-old A7III is going to be more discounted that an R5/R6 that could be on backorder for quite a awhile actually, that's quite obvious.
I agree the R system seems to have a fantastic foundation, but the questions are how much Canon is going to charge for it, and what the competition is offering. Would be great if Sigma and Tamron start offering RF mount lenses, and if Samyang keep releasing lenses like their RF 85mm f/1.4 AF, but we will have to see what happens.

As for an EOS R being a solid upgrade for me over my 6D II, I'm far from convinced about that. Yes it would give me a newer sensor, but I'd get lesser battery life, lower FPS when tracking and, most importantly to me, have to deal with an EVF introducing latency into what I'm seeing (not to mention I spend too much time looking at screens as it is!). Plus the current asking price for an EOS R plus control ring adapter is around A$3000, which is almost 50% more than I paid for my 6D II. And as I alluded to in my earlier post, there is the price of the RF lenses too consider too. All in all, I'm not at all sure I'd be happy if I spent money on an R.
 
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