There is an APS-C RF mount camera coming [CR3]

[justaCanonuser]

EF-S is Doomed!

Yes, maybe we will see RF-S lenses in future? Maybe with exchangeable M mount adapters as part of the lens? Not sure about the flange distances if such two crop systems would co-exist.

 

[beastofexmoor]

But! (maybe I have missed other comments asking this already here): what will happen to the M mount then?

I do not see this affecting the M-mount.
Especially, if they are not planning to make RF-S lenses.

If anything this concrete bit of news (or rumor at least) would indicate that Canon has no near-term plans to replace the M system with a similar compact, consumer oriented APS-C system, which is what the "M is doomed" crowd has always assumed would happen sooner rather than later. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that Canon will continue to make significant improvements to the M system in the form of new lenses and significant upgrades to bodies, but if they do so they'll be ceding the compact, consumer priced market completely to Fuji and Sony which would be pretty astonishing given their decades long history of being the market leader in this general area.

 

[AccipiterQ]

. The 7DII crowd makes no sense to me. If you are going to spend 10 or 20 grand on glass, why not get a body (R5 or R5s) that can fully utilize it, not to mention giving you a much bigger field of view when using for what this crowd is planning?. Canon does listen to customers, so we have to assume that segment was large enough and loud enough to justify making them their very own trinket.

Because the use-case for an R6 or R5 is completely different from the 7Dii (or R7)? Even cropped the R5 is only giving you 17MP. Nature/sports photographers need speed & reach. The R6/R5 have speed, but not the reach, when you're cropping down. If the R7 ends up being 32MP or whatever....that's a homerun. I'd buy one the day it drops, or mug someone that got one before they sold out.

 

[Philrp]

For those who don't understand. For the same money you can get:

1- A rebel type camera with a full frame sensor
2- A 1Dx type camera with a crop sensor.

I will always pick #2, as it offers more versatility and fun for the same money.

 

[navastronia]

RP is definitely an enthusiast camera, at least by Canon terms, and transparently marketed to compete with early A7s - released at a low spec to decelerate quickly and come down to a price that competes with Sony's entry level mirrorless. And I don't think anyone is missing using EF-S glass. It's not great. And if your argument is to lose the full frame, and lose the RF Glass... I revert to my original point - why would you buy an APS-C RF mount camera?

EF-S glass is fine if you 1) buy lenses that are objectively great, like the Sigma 18-35/1.8, and 2) aren't worried about "moving up to" full frame. As someone who did ditch APS-C entirely, it was a little bit of a bother to have to sell my EF-S glass. Birders who like APS-C for its reach, etc, won't be in the same position I was.

 

[David - Sydney]

Looking at technical quality alone, you probably have a point.
But cameras are also about the tool. And I don't think 5DSR are optimal for every kind of photography.
(and of course, there's the price too)

The pricing for the 5DSR has really reduced now especially second hand. Besides speed/fps and high ISO performance, it is looking to be a strong set of features and has weather sealing.

 

[degos]

but if I was a birder who liked to travel, a crop R5 with the RF 100 - 500mm would give me a 2-piece setup that gets to 800mm effective and fits in a backpack

No, it gives you 100-500 with the ability to throw away 28MP if you choose 'crop'. That setting gives absolutely no focal length magic. It saves card space.

APS-C can have denser sensors because the smaller CMOS wafer size means that the proportion of sensors lost to manufacturing defects is more tolerable.

 

[David - Sydney]

If pixel surface area and (cropped) sensor surface area are equal, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever how big the sensor is outside the cropped area. If you see objective IQ differences, they're caused by differences in sensor tech/generation, AA filter strength, or processing.

A cropped area from a big sensor could also be sharper and with less vignetting as the lenses are only "focused" on the centre.

 

[dwarven]

For those who don't understand. For the same money you can get:

1- A rebel type camera with a full frame sensor
2- A 1Dx type camera with a crop sensor.

I will always pick #2, as it offers more versatility and fun for the same money.

Yeah, I'm not sure where this "full-frame is strictly better" crowd came from, but they sure are annoying, and wrong.

 

[David - Sydney]

Using a crop camera for tele shooting vs using a FF camera with the same center resolution delivers the same results, of course - with one exception: speed, just based on processing less sensor data - if a crop mode is not already implemented on the sensor level. It is like driving into a crowed city to buy a bottle of beer with a compact car vs a huge SUV: with the smaller car you find faster a fitting parking lot, so you are earlier back at home to drink that bottle

If price is not an issue then the R5's speed is more than sufficient for most shooters. 5DSR is a different story of course.

 

[David - Sydney]

The RP isn't much bigger than the M5, a little wider perhaps. So conceivably, Canon could make both an R7 and an M7 using the same sensor, the same image processing hardware, different but related firmware and different lens mounts. Does that sound completely insane?

Hard to imagine that ergonomic balance of a small RF mount (say RP size body) with big whites without a gimbal would be good for long periods of time

 

[nchoh]

Without lenses?

With the camera market the way it is, I can see Canon being careful in announcing any lenses for the APSC R camera. But I am sure that there will be at least a cheap 18-55.

 

[Fletchahh]

For those who don't understand. For the same money you can get:

1- A rebel type camera with a full frame sensor
2- A 1Dx type camera with a crop sensor.

I will always pick #2, as it offers more versatility and fun for the same money.

EF-S glass is fine if you 1) buy lenses that are objectively great, like the Sigma 18-35/1.8, and 2) aren't worried about "moving up to" full frame. As someone who did ditch APS-C entirely, it was a little bit of a bother to have to sell my EF-S glass. Birders who like APS-C for its reach, etc, won't be in the same position I was.

You two summed up the reasons why (along with doing bird photography), I'm very excited about this camera I will be most likely preordering it. Here's hoping that Sigma will come up with some high end crop sensor RF lenses in the same vein as the 18-35mm f/1.8

 

[David - Sydney]

The 7D series were unicorns. No wonder the birders etc loved them but where would it fit into the RF marketing strategy now?
Weather sealed (similar to 5D), faster speed than 5D, AF from 1D series and cheap. Single card slot and high ISO noise were the differentiators.

Recycling the M6ii's sensor makes the most sense to me. 14fps/30mp fits exactly into the specs that birders are asking for. Maybe Digic X for DPAFII processing. The other option is recycling the 1DXii's sensor and mechanical shutter. Would it still be too expensive for these components cf R&D for a new sensor?

With weather sealing, either option becomes better than the R6 assuming that the AF is the same and hence sold at a higher price.

To expect speed/AF/weather sealed and a new 30mp sensor and priced cheaper than R6 is likely to be disappointed.

This is all besides the small size ergonomics for a RP sized body with big whites

 

[twoheadedboy]

No, it gives you 100-500 with the ability to throw away 28MP if you choose 'crop'. That setting gives absolutely no focal length magic. It saves card space.

APS-C can have denser sensors because the smaller CMOS wafer size means that the proportion of sensors lost to manufacturing defects is more tolerable.

You missed the entire first part of my comment, which talks about not having to bust out the photo editor/etc. The photo quality pixel-to-pixel in daylight/ISO's is essentially identical. It's not a "free" (of caveats) extension, but extenders aren't caveat-free either, and lenses which hit those focal lengths aren't free-as-in-currency. The argument about crop sensor focal length equivalents being an invalid comparison is a scientific explanation and is not relevant to photography.

 

[EOS 4 Life]

Yeah, I'm not sure where this "full-frame is strictly better" crowd came from, but they sure are annoying, and wrong.

Large Format or GTFO

 

[masterpix]

Continue reading...

Question, what an APS-C sensor will do betten than than the FF R5? unless it is a 35-40MP and extra fast shooting speed (over 20FPS). I can crop 32.5MP from the FF R5 and get simialr results to the 90D. while the R5 gives 20 FPS? They need this model to be far more advnaced than the R5 to make people shift to it.

 

[dwarven]

To expect speed/AF/weather sealed and a new 30mp sensor and priced cheaper than R6 is likely to be disappointed.

Nah. I doubt it will be more than $2k. I'd expect it to compete with the Fuji X-T3, which has all the bells and whistles you've mentioned for $1500. For another ~$300 they could bump the sensor resolution and add IBIS so it would slot above the X-T3.

 

[privatebydesign]

Question, what an APS-C sensor will do betten than than the FF R5? unless it is a 35-40MP and extra fast shooting speed (over 20FPS). I can crop 32.5MP from the FF R5 and get simialr results to the 90D. while the R5 gives 20 FPS? They need this model to be far more advnaced than the R5 to make people shift to it.

1: Less rolling shutter.
2: Higher video specs especially higher frame rates.
3: Faster flash sync speed.
4: Cost less.
5: Better magnification and framing in the viewfinder and back screen.

 

[slclick]

Large Format or GTFO

rooms converted to camera obscura or GTFO (of the room that is, you're blocking my emulsion painted wallpaper.)