The Canon EOS R1 is coming, here are a few things to expect

[entoman]

Canon has had APS-C MILCs since 2012. Sony and Fuji have had them as long or longer. Only Nikon ‘now has them’.

Very true, but I was specifically referring to an RF mount camera…

The ‘mid-range’ and ‘high-end’ APS-C MILC market is most likely nearly identical to the ‘mid-range’ and ‘high-end’ APS-C DSLR market’ Canon knows that market very, very well. What ever happened to the 7DIII, anyway?

Canon attempted to redress the loss of the 7DMkii by simultaneously launching the M6 Mkii and 90D, but neither were “pro-grade” and few would be brave enough to take them into hostile weather or subject them to the kind of abuse that a 7DMkii would shrug off.

What many wildlife and sports photographers want, is an APS-C RF mount ungripped body that is as tough as an R3 or 1DXii, has at least 20fps, twin card slots, state-of-art AF, and around 28-32MP (noting that an R5 image cropped to APS-C is only 17MP).

 

[blackcoffee17]

One thing to expect: a $7000 price tag

 

[AEWest]

Tradeoff FPS vs MPX:
- Max MPX & 16 bit color depth is more a R5S/R5II thing than a R1 thing. 30.3 MPX with all the specs of the R3 Sensor will do the job (so, no 8k vid).
- Max FPS is crucial by holding full AF performance, 14 bit color depth and uncompressed RAW. Min the 30 PPS provided by R3. By far more relevance are 50 FPS than 50 MPX

Alternative: Will the time be ready providing a Sensor with two modes:
- FPS-mode: 20 MPX, 50 FPS, 14bit uncompressed RAW
- MPX-mode: 80 MPX, 10 FPS, 16bit uncompressed RAW

Canon should introduce the very high MP and 16 bit feature in a 1 series camera. Why put these in a $4K camera when you can put it in a $6K camera?

 

[Bob Howland]

Canon should introduce the very high MP and 16 bit feature in a 1 series camera. Why put these in a $4K camera when you can put it in a $6K camera?

Canon already tried that with the 1Ds series, which stopped selling "enough" when the 5D2 was introduced. Nikon tried it with the D3X. There was no D3Xs refresh or D4X replacement. The next high MP Nikon was the D800, in a cheaper body. Customer demand does have something to do with all this.

 

[rontele7]

Do Sony or Nikon have an 800mm lens costing under $1K? Do they have a native MILC 800mm lens at any price?

Gee I wonder why?

 

[stevelee]

This post saying nothing meaninful.

Reminds me of pages that say “This page is intentionally blank.”

 

[stevelee]

I will wait for the more automated R2D2 model.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon attempted to redress the loss of the 7DMkii by simultaneously launching the M6 Mkii and 90D, but neither were “pro-grade” and few would be brave enough to take them into hostile weather or subject them to the kind of abuse that a 7DMkii would shrug off.

What many wildlife and sports photographers want, is an APS-C RF mount ungripped body that is as tough as an R3 or 1DXii, has at least 20fps, twin card slots, state-of-art AF, and around 28-32MP (noting that an R5 image cropped to APS-C is only 17MP).

Canon could have ‘redressed the loss of the 7DII’ by simply releasing a 7DIII. They chose not to do so. What does that suggest to you concerning Canon’s viewpoint about ‘what many wildlife and sports photographers want’ and, more importantly from Canon’s perspective, how many wildlife and sports photographers would buy such a camera?

Internet forums aren’t reality. Canon can read forums (they have one of their own, in fact), but they also have data on what people actually buy. Yet they didn’t release a 7DIII. So either Canon is stupid, or the desires expressed on Internet forums don’t represent actual sales. I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

 

[entoman]

Canon could have ‘redressed the loss of the 7DII’ by simply releasing a 7DIII. They chose not to do so. What does that suggest to you concerning Canon’s viewpoint about ‘what many wildlife and sports photographers want’ and, more importantly from Canon’s perspective, how many wildlife and sports photographers would buy such a camera?

Internet forums aren’t reality. Canon can read forums (they have one of their own, in fact), but they also have data on what people actually buy. Yet they didn’t release a 7DIII. So either Canon is stupid, or the desires expressed on Internet forums don’t represent actual sales. I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

I’m often initially mystified why camera manufacturers behave in a particular way, but time usually reveals good reasoning on their part.

Many people screamed for a replacement for the Nikon D300, many people (not quite as many...) screamed for a replacement for the Sony a700, and many screamed for a replacement for the Canon 7DMkii. Our cries went unheard, because each of those manufacturers had decided that instead of an iterative upgrade, they needed to develop an entirely new range of full frame products. But having done so, if the demand is there, they then turn some attention to launching APS versions, for those who want more reach per mm, and various other advantages of APS.

 

[mpmark]

As much as the possibility of an R1 in a year makes me second guess my R3 pre-order, the reality is that everything I need is going to be covered by my R5's 45 megapixels and the R3's 30 FPS.

I think it's far more likely that my next camera body after the R3 will be the R5 Mark II, and whatever that brings with it. I know we probably won't see that for a few years, but after the R3 my biggest priority will be RF glass. I'd rather spend $9000 in a year or two on a new RF 300mm f/2.8 or RF 200-500mm F/4.

That said, I think Canon is really going to bring the big guns on the R1, so I could be pleasantly surprised. It's hard to honestly even imagine what else I could want from a camera that the R5 or R3 doesn't already do.

Honest question, when does it all stop? That what you have gives you the pictures you want? Is there ever satisfaction?

 

[Bob Howland]

Honest question, when does it all stop? That what you have gives you the pictures you want? Is there ever satisfaction?

I'm still shooting with the 5D3 and 7D that I bought in 2012. I will admit to buying a 5DS on the day that Canon dropped the price by 65% but that was mostly so I could stop twitching. The temptation was just too much.

 

[entoman]

What does that suggest to you concerning Canon’s viewpoint about ‘what many wildlife and sports photographers want’ and, more importantly from Canon’s perspective, how many wildlife and sports photographers would buy such a camera?

The starting point for such an estimate would be the number of 7D and 7DMkii units sold. Both were very popular cameras. Then they’d factor in that there is a great deal of demand for a modernised i.e. high-performance RF mount version, and that would give them an indication of how high the demand actually is.

Canon of course do not rely on internet forums alone as a guide to what people are asking for - they are certainly in touch with reviewers such as those on dpreview etc, who pick up on the internet feedback, but they also get feedback via their own surveys and direct feedback from professionals.

Manufacturers can’t survive indefinitely by producing iterative upgrades, especially as it became increasingly obvious in DSLR days, that it took a jump of 2 or 3 iterations for photographers to gain any really significant improvements. Canon etc know that in order to significantly boost sales, they need to periodically make more radical changes, hence mirrorless cameras, and new mounts to sell new lenses.

Canon knows best. And I think that Canon knows that a high performance APS pro-grade body will be a very profitable addition to their range. Time will tell.

 

[InchMetric]

To me, the Z9 is close enough to the R5 to give no regret for switch to Canon.
I’d wish in an R5 in an R3 housing, plus a few updates. Which sounds a lot like the hypothetical R1.

 

[Talys]

I hope R1 will have triple card slots for three different card types and also maybe a mini-DVD slot, so no one would feel left out. Why follow Sony and Nikon with that nonsense with dual slots of the same type? What are they, insane?

This is to appeal to the legions who have lost data to a faulty CFE card ::eyeroll::

I want my camera to have 6 slots and support for RAID 0, 1 and 0/1 arrays of CFE cards please. And to be able to hot swap any card and have the data replaced from the redundant set.

 

[GoldWing]

If true, then what I've suspected for awhile is probably true as well.

The 1 series is transitioning from a tool for photojournalists and sports photographers to a aspirational body for enthusiasts. Makes sense, since the photojournalism/sports market is dying and enthusiasts are now driving camera company earnings. Canon has to follow the money.

Of course there will be a handful of top tier users that may still buy the R1 for professional use, but for the bulk of people shooting sports or news for a living, a more modest R3 makes sense.

The R1 will not differ from any other camera when a professional makes a business decision.

Nor will an Enthusiast differ in what changes their motivations.

The difference with a camera like the R1 is the potential for a greater number of photographers across multiple genres to see it as an optimal tool.

This is why the Z9 is receiving such accolades.

"If" the R1 does indeed double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII it could become one of the best selling cameras in history.

What will be required is what Canon has proven they can do already.

We are getting into blurred lines as photographers have typecast and pigieon

Don't see the R1 coming so soon as it would destroy everything else in their line with every bell and whistle tech of today can do. R5S will come late next year at a higher price point just slightly with higher MP, deeper buffer, and better video features as way improved cooling. At the same time the R5 will get a lower price point also. It may lead the way into a R3S later 2023, slightly higher price point with slightly better specs. R1 will come in the 2024 Games. Tech that will end up in this camera is not ready to hit production but Canon has their patents and testers out now R&Ding them now.

If Canon waits until 2024.... Nikon will take away a sizable chunk of business. The Z9 was just the first shot across Canon's bow. Nikon will have even higher resolution camera than the Z9 by then to beat Canon's R1 to the market. Canon played "hold back" and it has caught up with them. They release the 1DXMKIII, then R5 with no incremental increase in resolution from the 1DXMKII to the 1DXMKIII..... Then a 20 something MP R3??? Canon deserves to have some of their market share lost to Nikon for what they did!

 

[john1970]

With regards, to the need for a APS-C camera in a professional grade body, would not a high MP body in APS-C mode meet that demand ? If Canon designs the R1 as a high MP body with on-demand pixel binning one could in theory have three cameras in one:

1) A high MP full frame body (e.g. 80 MP)
2) A low MP full frame body (e.g. 20 MP)
3) APS-C crop of option 1 which is ~30 MP

That sounds like a jack-of-all-trades camera to me especially if it fits into a R3 sized body at ~1 kg weight. I personally, would rather buy one body that does all three of the above scenarios for $7K than three separate bodies.

 

[Cyborx]

One thing to expect: a $7000 price tag

9000 makes more sense if you look at Canon’s heavily overpriced showreel so far.

 

[Cyborx]

LOL

Makes sense to me!

 

[Ozarker]

Us larger handed folx have no issues. I understand if your mileage may vary

Don't they make extenders for the guys with short, uh, fingers??

 

[StevenA]

You can technically claim anything you want until the client asks for a demo reel or a sample of your work. That will quickly humble most people regardless of how many tens of thousands of gear they have. But some people do buy camera gear as a form of conspicuous consumption among their fellow peers, and obviously it isn't a direct reflection of their skill levels either. Even then, I think everyone has their own valid reasons. Some people like to collect cameras and never planned to pursue a trade in this field and simply like having the "best" for bragging rights, etc.

The real darker side to this is people using their gear to mislead people for their actual motivations. Me and a few peers ran photo and lighting workshops many years ago and a lot of people would show up with the newest and most expensive gear. Naturally we would assume they were at some level in the trade, but it was evident after peeking at some rear screens that a particular few had more perverse motivations. Their high end taste in camera gear somehow lent credence to their lack of talent and darker intent.

I think a better statement would be that "camera advances haven't removed the requirement for talent, but has given more headroom for those with talent to do more or better than what they were using previously."

A professional photographer is given a film camera and a novice is given an R5. Both are told to shoot at an NFL football game and present their photos in a blind test. A third individual is asked to choose the photos they think were taken by the professional. Which photos do you suppose have the best chance of being chosen?