Is a Canon EOS R100 coming next year? A budget EOS R APS-C camera [CR1]

[unfocused]

It's always legal....if they don't catch you.

Not funny. Just stupid.

 

[David - Sydney]

The M6 Mark II might not be officially "discontinued" by Canon Global, but production could be limited or suspended due to supply chain issues. That might explain why @David - Sydney said it was listed on the Australian website but nobody has stock, or why two national subsidiaries chose to discontinue it.

This isn't just Canon. Sony announced last November that they were halting production on a few cameras due to the global semiconductor shortage, and about a month later they did discontinue a couple of those and halted a few others. See here and here.

Under normal circumstances, Canon might sell a lot more M's than R's, but when sales of everything is limited by how many can be built, it makes sense to shift the available parts to the higher margin R's.

It isn't just the case that no one has stock locally. If that were the case then the retailers would show out of stock but still list the item.
I just checked 5 larger authourised local retailers and a grey market retailer and none even have the M6ii listed at all on their websites.
Canon Australia's website normally has links to each retailer for that item when you click on "Buy" but none appears in the list indicating that they don't exist for sale anywhere
This could be an anomaly but it sure looks like discontinuation to me

 

[David - Sydney]

Yes, not every camera is discontinued already. But I think it is quite obvious that not every line of camera once existed (or even still existing) will have a successor in the future. For ex. 90D and 7D was melted to R7. M5 and M6 was melted to M6 II. M50 and M200 (probably) will melt to an assuming R100. That doesn't necessarily mean all these cameras aren't produced anymore. It's just not sure if they will have an (direct) successor or not ...

What I was trying to indicate:
Time changes everything, even camera lines! In an increasingly shrinking market the camera lines will also shrink! When you have a smaller line-up of cameras (with uncertain future) it is not wise to separate them even further by supporting different mounts.

I would contend that the 7Dii melted down to 90D/M6ii given they had the obviously high pixels-on-duck reach that most 7D users wanted.

The 1D series has split and then re-united in the past. The R3 is a unique line never seen before within their digital sensor history.
Canon has just expanded their line-up of cameras and lens variants with APS-c/RF-S.
Let's now forget that besides DLSR/MILC they still sell:
- fixed lens compacts (Ixus/Powershot)
- video and cinema and adding recently the R5c as a new hybrid
- security/remote cameras
- niche products like Zoemini/Inspic and Powershot Zoom. I just read that the Zoom can take stills at 10fps!
=> Canon seem to be comfortable about having multiple product lines and varying them markedly over time

Wisdom is Canon's strategy and our knowledge of their history.

 

[AlanF]

Not funny. Just stupid.

“In Jersey, anything's legal as long as you don't get caught”
Bob Dylan in Tweeter and the Monkeyman, The Traveling Wilburys

 

[Czardoom]

It isn't just the case that no one has stock locally. If that were the case then the retailers would show out of stock but still list the item.
I just checked 5 larger authourised local retailers and a grey market retailer and none even have the M6ii listed at all on their websites.
Canon Australia's website normally has links to each retailer for that item when you click on "Buy" but none appears in the list indicating that they don't exist for sale anywhere
This could be an anomaly but it sure looks like discontinuation to me

I don't think it should surprise anyone if the M6 II is in fact discontinued. The supply shortages might have hastened its discontinuation, but if it is discontinued, the most likely explanation is low sales. Perhaps it sold well upon its release, but it has now been out a while and sales may have dwindled to very low numbers. I have no idea of actual numbers, so this is all pure conjecture, but I think the M6 II was always sort of an experiment. It does not fit the usual M profile of being a low priced, small size (using small lenses), easy to use, consumer level camera. Its high MP count, higher FPS, and more sophisticated AF system puts it in a bird/wildlife/action camera category. And, in my opinion, it is not a camera that is built for that market at all. Its tiny, so completely unbalanced with larger EF telephoto lenses (and there are no telephoto M lenses suitable for birds/wildlife). It has no built in EVF, a spec I think most birders, wildlife and sports shooters would prefer. And, perhaps most interestingly, it has essentially the same specs as the 90D, which I believe was released at the same time. Was Canon putting out these two cameras simultaneously to compete against each other to see which form factor users preferred? Perhaps the result was that the camera did not fit the target market at all and sales were considerably lower than anticipated. All speculation, but as a owner of a 6D II for a brief time, I found that for what it seemed best suited for (birds/wildlife/action) it was a very bad fit due to small size, no EVF and a terrible ergonomic fit with large telephoto lenses. If most consumers looking for a tiny, inexpensive ILC camera are looking at the various M offerings, why would they choose the more expensive 6D II rather then the M50 or M50 II?

 

[GoldWing]

How about a sports camera that can take a splash of sea spray. These worthless toys are an insult.

 

[unfocused]

How about a sports camera that can take a splash of sea spray. These worthless toys are an insult.

That's what GoPros are for.

 

[Czardoom]

How about a sports camera that can take a splash of sea spray. These worthless toys are an insult.

Not an insult to the 98% of photographers who are smart enough to keep their cameras out of the water. You want a sports camera with pro level weather sealing, get a pro camera like the R3. Oh, I forgot, you have to have 50 MP or more despite the fact the majority of sports photographers are far happier with the 24 MPs that offer a much faster work flow.

It's only a worthless toy to an incompetent photographer.

 

[dickgrafixstop]

If it doesn't have a viewfinder, it's DOA.

 

[David - Sydney]

That's what GoPros are for.

Yeah, the seal on a gopro9 was supposed to handle 10m snorkeling but it failed and corroded the battery/sd card. Thankfully they replaced it but normally water ingress is not covered.
I will always use a housing for it now irrespective of depth.

 

[lote82]

I would contend that the 7Dii melted down to 90D/M6ii given they had the obviously high pixels-on-duck reach that most 7D users wanted.

The 1D series has split and then re-united in the past. The R3 is a unique line never seen before within their digital sensor history.
Canon has just expanded their line-up of cameras and lens variants with APS-c/RF-S.
Let's now forget that besides DLSR/MILC they still sell:
- fixed lens compacts (Ixus/Powershot)
- video and cinema and adding recently the R5c as a new hybrid
- security/remote cameras
- niche products like Zoemini/Inspic and Powershot Zoom. I just read that the Zoom can take stills at 10fps!
=> Canon seem to be comfortable about having multiple product lines and varying them markedly over time

Wisdom is Canon's strategy and our knowledge of their history.

Yes, even revivals are possible! But even something like the R3 is rather supporting my opinion about the future of Canon mounts.

There is an R3.
There is (and will be) no M3 II.
There is (and will be) no EOS 3 II.

M is dead and EF/EF-S is dead.
When I say "dead" it doesn't mean that M and EF/EF-S products won't be produced and sold anymore. Or to say in Canon words: They will be sold "as long as there is demand".

When I say "dead" I mean there won't be any new(!) products anymore.

We can talk about if there will come something like R100 or not. Or if the assumed R100 will have an EVF or not.

Instead we could talk about M and EF/EF-S rumors. But then we would have NOTHING to talk about!

 

[Bahrd]

Definitely not legal. Stresses threatened wildlife and is annoying and inconsiderate of other park goers.

♫♫
Understandable, understandable
Yes, it's perfectly understandable
Comprehensible, comprehensible
Not a bit reprehensible, it's so defensible!
♫♫

On a more serious note: you will probably never convince all those catch-me-if-you-can guys and gals.
(Btw, did you like that Spielberg's movie?

Why does everybody believe that having multiple mounts is a problem?

I believe it is not a mount itself. It is also a software behind. The M series derived its operating system from the PowerShots line.
It means that protocols, device drivers, focusing algorithms etc. - once developed - have to be ported to two systems and maintained there.

 

[bf]

♫♫
Understandable, understandable
Yes, it's perfectly understandable
Comprehensible, comprehensible
Not a bit reprehensible, it's so defensible!
♫♫

On a more serious note: you will probably never convince all those catch-me-if-you-can guys and gals.
(Btw, did you like that Spielberg's movie?

I believe it is not a mount itself. It is also a software behind. The M series derived its operating system from the PowerShots line.
It means that protocols, device drivers, focusing algorithms etc. - once developed - have to be ported to two systems and maintained there.

I believe the FW switched from eos (original M) to powershot and then returned to EOS again in later generations. They kept supporting EF lenses through the generations. The difference was mainly user interface and I think minimal effort is required there. They have already built and evolved the FW for more than a decade.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

I believe it is not a mount itself. It is also a software behind. The M series derived its operating system from the PowerShots line.
It means that protocols, device drivers, focusing algorithms etc. - once developed - have to be ported to two systems and maintained there.

I would think it makes more sense for the M to be a fork of the EF EOS rather than PowerShot, if only to support interchangeable lenses. But I’ve never used a PowerShot so I don’t know how its menus and whatnot compare to the M and EF EOS. For all I know, they might all be branches of the same baseline. That would be the most efficient way to do it.

 

[Phenix205]

There are quite a few Canon camera “fortune tellers” on this forum and I’m very curious how many Canon cameras have they actually used. I have used, bought, and rent Canon cameras since 1980’s when I was in middle school. I still own three film cameras (including the almighty EOS 1v), six Powershots, 20D, 5DIII, 5DsR, the original M, and have rented generations of the 1D models, R5, and R6 for my kids’ sports events and trips to Alaska, Africa and Iceland. Yet I still decided to buy an M6II in late 2021 which is perfect for my needs for a light, compact, high resolution camera that has the fantastic touch and drag AF feature with 14fps mechanical shutter busting rate.

I truly appreciate the wide product line Canon offers to meet various consumer needs. That is why they are the market leader. Instead of cursing the equipment, comparing specs on paper and watching hundreds of hours of YouTube equipment review videos, the time may be better used in studying compositions and lighting and post processing and taking photos - using whatever you have now.

 

[koenkooi]

I believe the FW switched from eos (original M) to powershot and then returned to EOS again in later generations. They kept supporting EF lenses through the generations. The difference was mainly user interface and I think minimal effort is required there. They have already built and evolved the FW for more than a decade.

The way I understood it: The firmware for the original M was based on the EOS firmware and for subsequent models the Powershot department was put in charge of developing it further. This was done to keep the Powershot people busy after their original market was eaten by smartphones.

If you look at the M50 firmware, that was, in hindsight, very clearly a trial run for the EOS R firmware. I don't think there is any difference between firmware for the rumoured R100 and a new M model, they will both lean heavily towards Scenes.

 

[Bahrd]

@bf, @koenkooi & @mdcmdcmdc - it could indeed be the case (in all versions of the EOS SDK I have been using, the EOS M models used to lack a remote control feature and only recently the newest models M200/M50II/M6II have become fully supported).

PS
Does this unification effort mean that EOS M can have a brighter and future future?

 

[SnowMiku]

There are quite a few Canon camera “fortune tellers” on this forum and I’m very curious how many Canon cameras have they actually used. I have used, bought, and rent Canon cameras since 1980’s when I was in middle school. I still own three film cameras (including the almighty EOS 1v), six Powershots, 20D, 5DIII, 5DsR, the original M, and have rented generations of the 1D models, R5, and R6 for my kids’ sports events and trips to Alaska, Africa and Iceland. Yet I still decided to buy an M6II in late 2021 which is perfect for my needs for a light, compact, high resolution camera that has the fantastic touch and drag AF feature with 14fps mechanical shutter busting rate.

I truly appreciate the wide product line Canon offers to meet various consumer needs. That is why they are the market leader. Instead of cursing the equipment, comparing specs on paper and watching hundreds of hours of YouTube equipment review videos, the time may be better used in studying compositions and lighting and post processing and taking photos - using whatever you have now.

My Canon cameras from oldest to newest is the SX100IS, SX40, SX710, 700D, M5, 90D. These days I mainly use the 90D and M5 but all the others still work.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

My Canon cameras from oldest to newest is the SX100IS, SX40, SX710, 700D, M5, 90D. These days I mainly use the 90D and M5 but all the others still work.

My first SLR of any kind was a Canon AV-1 I bought (used) in 1982 when I was in high school. My first EOS was a 100 (international version of the Elan - I was living in Scotland at the time) I bought in 1992. Had a lot of fun and learned a lot traveling with the 100!

After that came 20D, Rebel T2i, 70D, 7D, 7D Mark II, and M5.

No PowerShots, but I’m hoping to add an R7 to the list before the end of the month!

 

[koenkooi]

@bf, @koenkooi & @mdcmdcmdc - it could indeed be the case (in all versions of the EOS SDK I have been using, the EOS M models used to lack a remote control feature and only recently the newest models M200/M50II/M6II have become fully supported).

PS
Does this unification effort mean that EOS M can have a brighter and future future?

It means that a lot of existing software pieces can get reused, which means less engineering time would be needed. Only Canon knows if they want to spend time and money on developing M further.