6D & 1.4X -or- 7D Mk II?

awair

EOS T7i
Jan 3, 2013
95
8
photo.awair.net
For image quality, which would you prefer/recommend: 6D (FF & low-light capability) with a 1.4X converter or the new 7D2 (at native resolution, without a converter).

I have the 300/4L, 135/2L & 50/1.4 - it is the 50mm performance that I am most interested in (70mm @ 2.0 with converter, versus effective 80mm @ 1.4).

Short story:
I have the 7D and will almost certainly upgrade to the 7D2. I mostly use the 135L lens, although the 300 would be more useful to me on FF than it is at the moment. I find the 7D/300 combo limiting due to the lighting situation, and believe the 7D2 would give a significant improvement for my typical use.

If I buy the 7D2, I will sell the 7D, but I am also considering the 6D "at some stage". What are your thoughts?

Long story:
I used to have numerous items of 35mm kit, including AE-1, AV-1 & various typical and mediocre lenses. My former favourite was the T90 & 85/1.8 prime. I am fairly used to judging my required shot with a prime, rather than a zoom.

Having moved up through various digital models, including early 'point & shoot' to the 20D & 7D, I am now looking for my final camera body. I've rented the 5D3, and would love a 1Dx, but have ruled that out financially.

As for lenses, I thought I wanted the 400/2.8L, but after using it, I know it's too big. The 200/2.0L was also on 'the list', but again is too bulky. My future lens purchases are now probably the 35/1.4L (for FF) or temporarily the new EF-S 24/2.8. The 70-200/2.8 non-IS is also a possibility.

Based on my existing lenses, and possibly the wish list, which combination will give me the best quality images: the 6D with converter, or the 7D2? I've ruled out the 2.0X, the 5D3 and most other zooms/primes. Having two bodies offers an advantage, and I realise there are other considerations (AF being the main one).

Maybe the question should be, which do I buy first: the 6D or the 7D2? I know the 7D is more suited to my typical shoot.

Many thanks.
 

timmy_650

EOS RP
Dec 20, 2012
290
23
So you want to put a 1.4x converter on a 50mm? My vote would be 85mm 1.8 lens. The price difference wouldn't be that much and it would give you the best quality.
With your bodies I would say buy a refurbished 6D from canon for like $1400 (on sale) and keep your 7D.
 

awair

EOS T7i
Jan 3, 2013
95
8
photo.awair.net
Thank you for the reply, I realise that part of the question may seem nonsensical. Probably because I've jumped a couple of steps ahead in my mind.

I'm looking to compare the advantages of having a 1.4X converter to expand my line-up versus a crop-format (1.6) body. At the longer focal lengths, I can reasonably predict the quality based on other reviews, but the 50/1.4 and a 1.4X?

Would you; and if not why not, if you owned both? And how might this result compare with the similar effective focal length of the crop 7D2?
 

RustyTheGeek

EOR R
Apr 27, 2011
1,634
4
54
DFW
rustythegeek.zenfolio.com
I own(ed) all of them except the 7D.

It depends mostly on what you shoot and you don't mention that. Or your budget.

Based on my use of the 7D2, buy the 7D2. It has great high ISO, amazing AF and a few features that no other camera has like Deflicker. It also has a variation of Dual Pixel sensor tech and quiet 10 fps. It will give you more reach with all lenses along with the necessary AF to exploit them.

The 6D is a wonderful camera but the fps is pretty slow. It has the best low light sensor available. It has built-in WiFi which allows Remote Shooting + GPS. And it's Full Frame. It offers more creativity if you prefer wide lenses.

Owning both gives you incredible versatility. But the 7D2 is more versatile by itself as long as you don't need WiFi or extra wide range. (So get an Eye-Fi card and/or CamRanger along with one 10-22 EF-S lens.)

The 7D2 is currently a bit overpriced but it is getting great reviews. Buying the 7D2 now will cost you a high price but that doesn't matter if you need the technology now.
 

AUGS

EOS 80D
Feb 13, 2012
103
11
Sydney, Australia
awair said:
For image quality, which would you prefer/recommend: 6D (FF & low-light capability) with a 1.4X converter or the new 7D2 (at native resolution, without a converter).
I have the 300/4L, 135/2L & 50/1.4 - it is the 50mm performance that I am most interested in (70mm @ 2.0 with converter, versus effective 80mm @ 1.4).
{content removed}
Many thanks.
Just a word of warning, you wont be able to use the 1.4x with the 50/1.4. From Canon website for the 1.4xIII:
Note: This lens is only compatible with fixed focal length L-series lenses 135mm and over, as well as the EF 70-200/2.8L, EF 70-200/2.8L IS, EF 70-200/4L, and EF 100-400/4.5-5.6L.
To get a focal length around 70-80mm you will need to get a new lens for a full frame camera - if that is what you want or need. This may be a factor in your final decision which body to purchase.
 

bluenoser1993

EOS RP
Jul 11, 2012
210
17
I have a 7D as well, but quite a different spectrum of lenses. I had been careful with all lens choices (except a 10-22) to be sure I was lining myself up for my future FF upgrade I was sure I was going to do. Turns out I'm quite satisfied with the DOF I get with the crop and my uses tend to require more reach, fast shutter, and great AF. So coming to realize this I'm very excited about upgrading to a 7DII because it is a perfect match to my uses around water sports given my budget. As someone already mentioned, the 7DII alone is more versatile, and when the 6D eventually gets upgraded, it will be cheaper to buy a 6D body then any L glass and will put a whole new perspective on everything in your kit.

One question about your 135, as I've thought long and hard about that one. Great for tight portrait, but on a 7D/7DII I think it would be the poor man's 200 f2 for sports. What's your primary use for it, and is it the best you could imagine for that.
 

RustyTheGeek

EOR R
Apr 27, 2011
1,634
4
54
DFW
rustythegeek.zenfolio.com
This video showcases some of the reasons that I bought the 7D2 camera. Particularly since I shoot a lot of indoor swimming in terrible flickering light. The video shortcut below starts at the DeFlicker feature but you should watch the whole video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noo-2h-PG7k&feature=youtu.be&t=4m35s
 

MichaelHodges

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 7, 2012
423
0
I would recommend the 6D over any crop camera for all pursuits except for tiny songbirds.

As an owner of numerous Canon crop cameras the last decade, the IQ IMHO lost something with the start of the 7D. The images just look "rough" compared to Canon's FF offerings. I have also experience increased focus inconsistency with the 1.6x high megapixel sensors.

The 300 prime is amazing on FF. Also, IMHO, using a 1.4x on 50 and 85mm primes is a waste of time, just crop. The 1.4 is brilliant on the 300/F4 on FF, though.
 

AlanF

Stay alert, control the camera, save photos
Aug 16, 2012
6,693
5,562
The question is: 6D & 1.4X -or- 7D Mk II? not 6D -or- 7D Mk II? It is not FF vs crop?

The 1.4XTC lowers aperture by a stop and slightly degrades the image. So, the advantage of FF having better iso noise is lost by having to use a 1.4x higher f number. My choice, therefore, would be the 7D II.
 

Rob-downunder

EOS M50
Aug 16, 2014
26
1
There are only 2 reasons I can see for using a lens with a wide aperture. To allow more light in so you can use a faster shutter speed, or to produce a thin depth of field for artistic reasons.
In the first instance, comparing using the 6D with a TC to a crop sensor, the extra ISO performance of the FF sensor would mean that the loss of a stop would be easily offset or indeed surpassed by being able to bump the ISO.
In the second instance, if you want thin depth of fields with wide aperture lenses you will achieve this better on a FF body than on a crop.
In both scenarios if you want to use a wide aperture lens - the 6D wins hands down over a crop sensor body.
If you are wanting to use lenses up to 200mm, then using a TC seems pretty pointless. Where the argument becomes valid is as you extend the focal length beyond 200mm at which point the cost for good glass goes up very sharply, and the reach advantages of crop bodies vs FF with TC becomes debatable. If even more reach is needed then you start looking at crop with TC.
But in the focal lengths you are interested in using (or at least questioning in this post), full frame wins everytime.
Discussion of autofocusing abilities and other features of the cameras are a separate discussion.
Based on the original question - if you like the full frame 85 mm focal length with a wide aperture - go the 6D with the 85 1.8.
 

Otara

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2012
333
104
I have the 7D, 6D and 7D2. I got the 6D with the idea it offered a low cost option to check out FF. Problem is it doesnt really, and comes with other usability issues that ended up getting irritating when I was used to not having them, particularly AF and controls.

With crop and FF bodies, I dont find theres a natural complementing of lenses, and ended up starting to develop 2 systems, which doesnt work well from a cost or trip perspective. As stated above, a 1.4 doesnt really fix this, and in my view the next 5D or the current one makes more sense than buying 2 separate cameras and trying to bodge it with each, eg having both AF and full frame advantages. You will almost certainly end up favouring one over the other like me, and then the other becomes a devaluing desk ornament or at least far less commonly used.

For me the current desk ornament is the 6D, but it is early days. I think Im the tiny bird guy Michael is referring to, and he has a point in that my preferences may be overspecialised, in that most Oz Victorian wildlife tends to be smaller rather than larger.
 

CanonOregon

Having fun with what I have to shoot with now.
Sep 12, 2012
47
4
Oregon
I think the 6d+7d MkII combo only works if you think in two 'mindsets', the 6d for landscapes and the 7d MkII for long reach and wildlife. So pair wide lenses for the 6d and long for the 7d MkII. I have the 7d MkII and currently use a 70d for landscapes- just so I'm not changing lenses all the time in the field but I find too often I set out on a day and wind up being either in 'landscape' mode or 'wildlife (birding) mode' and fail to use the other that much. I don't know that there's a 'lens duplication' problem' if separate the tasks for each body. But I would never consider a body based on using a 1.4x with it on a continuous basis. (You can get the Kenko 300 series extenders to work with just about any Canon lens and their 1.4x is very good, but I wouldn't recommend using a 'short lens' with any extender as someone pointed out, the 85mm 1.8 is a very good lens and used is around $300- so why an extender on a 50mm?)
 

tiger82

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 23, 2012
414
0
MichaelHodges said:
I would recommend the 6D over any crop camera for all pursuits except for tiny songbirds.

As an owner of numerous Canon crop cameras the last decade, the IQ IMHO lost something with the start of the 7D. The images just look "rough" compared to Canon's FF offerings. I have also experience increased focus inconsistency with the 1.6x high megapixel sensors.

The 300 prime is amazing on FF. Also, IMHO, using a 1.4x on 50 and 85mm primes is a waste of time, just crop. The 1.4 is brilliant on the 300/F4 on FF, though.
Wait, you can use 1.4X extenders on the 50mm and 85mm? What's yoursecret?
 

Steve

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2013
351
0
I don't think he's saying that he's using the 85/50mm with a 1.4x but my guess is that you can use it if you put an extension tube in between the lens and extender
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,940
1,056
Personally, I'd chose the 6D. The advantage of the 7D Mark II is for wildlife shooters.

You will need lenses that are 1.6 the focal length of your current lenses. You are missing 85mm, 35mm, and 24mm. If you only shoot longer focal lengths, then you will want a 400mm lens.

I've sold most of my primes now that the new zooms and FF sensors are fast enough to eliminate any advantage from a faster prime. I've kept my 135mmL, but haven't used it in over a year. It needs to go, its just hard to part with.

A 6D with 24-105mmL kit is a good place to start.
 

RustyTheGeek

EOR R
Apr 27, 2011
1,634
4
54
DFW
rustythegeek.zenfolio.com
Mt. Spokane, I agree with you about the 6D (and the lenses) but if sports is the subject being captured, I think the 7D2 has a pretty significant list of important features the 6D lacks. There's more to a camera than simply the sensor IQ and size. I have finally shot an event with the 7D2 and it's pretty amazing to use for sports, esp indoors with funky lighting. I agree that the 6D with 24-105mmL kit is a great place to start if one is shooting a myriad of things EXCEPT sports.
 

tiger82

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 23, 2012
414
0
Steve said:
I don't think he's saying that he's using the 85/50mm with a 1.4x but my guess is that you can use it if you put an extension tube in between the lens and extender
Wouldn't an extension tube prevent focusing at infinity? Non-AF?