7D2 - at the end of the day, the best combined reach/action/speed camera

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Sure the low ISO DR is weak for this day and age (although banding is fixed which is very nice) and the video quality.... but just focus on the what the 7D series is most about and what matter most of all for it- a small body with speed, AF, reach and the 7D2, assuming the AF works as well as assumed, seems to hit out of the park and would certainly appear to be the best such option in existence. As far as speed AF it appears to be all out, close for metering (although lacking spot linked to AF point for some reason), and 10fps is very good speed and the UI is quick and great. Grand slam at it's core.

(the worrisome things about it are more worrisome for other lines, it still leaves (some good number of) us fearing the 5D4 may once again have a non-Exmor-level sensor and crippled video quality and usability)

 

[nvsravank]

I agree. I was so ready to buy it and then i come to know that even though the 1DX AF system came in, the exposure system did not!

So focus point based spot exposure

That is my one and only gripe about an otherwise excellent camera for my purposes.
I will just wait for the price to stabilize post holiday season and buy it in time for my photography season next year

 

[Deleted member 91053]

From what I have read the 7D2 is nearly there.
Not in the reach department - even the very best APSC sensors offer very little reach advantage and bring along a number of disadvantages such as ISO performance etc, etc.
Canon could have mitigated this by dropping the MP count about 6mp from the 7D - but instead they increased it by 2mp! As I wildlife photographer I don't see too much use for a 7D2 in less than perfect light - but, to be fair, I will give one a go.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I agree. I was so ready to buy it and then i come to know that even though the 1DX AF system came in, the exposure system did not!

So focus point based spot exposure

Yeah, and that's pure marketeering on Canon's part. Although there may have been technical reasons for the 5DIII not having AF point-linked spot metering, there's no reason the 7DII can't have it...other than Canon reserving that feature for the 1-series bodies.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

From what I have read the 7D2 is nearly there.
Not in the reach department - even the very best APSC sensors offer very little reach advantage and bring along a number of disadvantages such as ISO performance etc, etc.
Canon could have mitigated this by dropping the MP count about 6mp from the 7D - but instead they increased it by 2mp! As I wildlife photographer I don't see too much use for a 7D2 in less than perfect light - but, to be fair, I will give one a go.

Hmm I have to disagree. After I sold my 7D and 5D2 to get a 5D3 I did miss the 7D reach at times. So I'm not sayng that as a 7D owner trying to defend it. I simply got more detail on birds when I used the 7D a majority of, although not all, the time.

If they cut 6MP off it and made it 12MP the high iso performance would probably only improve by maybe 1/4 stop, being generous, at print view. Does it matter if the 100% view noise is worse? 100% view is not a fair comparison.

If it were only 12MP the reach advantage over the 5D3 would be a lot less and at that point, other than for the fps (of course 10fps vs 6fps is a big difference granted), why not get the 5D3? But what about a used 1D3 or 1D4 at that point? OK, I guess those are bulky.

But I don't see the point in giving up the reach just to, maybe, maybe, get 1/4 stop better SNR. And don't forget the tighter the 'grain' the less objectionable it looks and the more room you have to apply advanced NR techniques (as opposed to the simple filtering of high frequency noise from less MP).

You gain reach when the noise is not a problem and only get a tiny bit more noise, tiny bit, when the noise is a problem.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I agree. I was so ready to buy it and then i come to know that even though the 1DX AF system came in, the exposure system did not!

So focus point based spot exposure

Yeah, and that's pure marketeering on Canon's part. Although there may have been technical reasons for the 5DIII not having AF point-linked spot metering, there's no reason the 7DII can't have it...other than Canon reserving that feature for the 1-series bodies.

And considering that they did puny on video and didn't up the sensor, it seems pretty curious that they still felt they had to hold back just a little on the metering. I really wish Canon would just fire their entire executive board and product planners and marketing feature planners. They could be so much more. They used to be. They have so much tech.

And I mean for an action cam, that is precisely when metering per AF point really helps, you simply have no time to manually adjust in some cases and then without the exmor sensor if it does underxpose some stuff you have less freedom to fix it. It just makes no sense.

They did finally fix AutoISO, but whoever in marketing/exec level thought to dribble that over 10 years....

Anwyay it should still be a good wildlife/action cam.

 

[wickidwombat]

(the worrisome things about it are more worrisome for other lines, it still leaves (some good number of) us fearing the 5D4 may once again have a non-Exmor-level sensor and crippled video quality and usability)

I Agree the cripple strategy of canon is really annoying. This is the thing i wish they would change in their business
if they didn't cripple the 5Dmk3 I highly doubt it would consume 1Dx sales but they still seem to pursue this line of thinking :

 

[MichaelHodges]

As I wildlife photographer I don't see too much use for a 7D2 in less than perfect light

That's the problem with describing the newer crop cameras as "wildlife" cameras. The newer, high MP Canon crop sensors only work well in the best of light.

Reach doesn't matter much if fur and feather detail is obliterated by noise. I think we're at the point now that unless you shoot tiny birds, FF is the way to go for all applications.

 

[Sabaki]

Guys, I gotta stoooooooopid question.

So I'm very near sighted and adjusting the diopter on my 500D gave me a good but not perfect image.

Would the diopter on the 7Dii be superior, or are all DSLR diopters standard?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Guys, I gotta stoooooooopid question.

So I'm very near sighted and adjusting the diopter on my 500D gave me a good but not perfect image.

Would the diopter on the 7Dii be superior, or are all DSLR diopters standard?

They are all the same, but you can purchase a additional diopter correction if you need it. B&H carries them.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Diopters/ci/4661/N/4232860696

 

[Sabaki]

Guys, I gotta stoooooooopid question.

So I'm very near sighted and adjusting the diopter on my 500D gave me a good but not perfect image.

Would the diopter on the 7Dii be superior, or are all DSLR diopters standard?

They are all the same, but you can purchase a additional diopter correction if you need it. B&H carries them.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Diopters/ci/4661/N/4232860696.

Thanks Mt Spokane! Now to figure out which - value my eyesight is

 

[Famateur]

I agree. I was so ready to buy it and then i come to know that even though the 1DX AF system came in, the exposure system did not!

So focus point based spot exposure

Yeah, and that's pure marketeering on Canon's part. Although there may have been technical reasons for the 5DIII not having AF point-linked spot metering, there's no reason the 7DII can't have it...other than Canon reserving that feature for the 1-series bodies.

I really wish Canon would just fire their entire executive board and product planners and marketing feature planners. They could be so much more. They used to be. They have so much tech.

I want the best tech as soon as possible, too, but I suspect the board is considering more than just arbitrarily holding back tech. There's a global economic sag and the point-and-shoot market (i.e. Canon's bread and butter) is all but vanishing. This is a time where companies often choose a conservative approach to ensure long-term viability. I'd rather technology be metered out in a more steady fashion and know the company will likely still be strong ten or twenty years from now. If you release everything you have now, what do you do that's "new" when your engineers are developing technology that isn't production-ready?

It's funny how rarely we hear people complain about Sandisk "crippling" their memory cards for speed and capacity. Knew a guy who worked for Sandisk. The stuff he could tell me about was drool-worthy, and the stuff that was non-disclosable was "light years" ahead of that. Still, Sandisk wisely meters out releases at a fairly predictable pace, maximizing return on development investment and keeping pace with (or just ahead of) the competition. It's just how technology markets work.

All that said, I have my wish list, too.

I'd like a 70D body with a 6D sensor for the 6D price...

 

[Deleted member 91053]

From what I have read the 7D2 is nearly there.
Not in the reach department - even the very best APSC sensors offer very little reach advantage and bring along a number of disadvantages such as ISO performance etc, etc.
Canon could have mitigated this by dropping the MP count about 6mp from the 7D - but instead they increased it by 2mp! As I wildlife photographer I don't see too much use for a 7D2 in less than perfect light - but, to be fair, I will give one a go.

Hmm I have to disagree. After I sold my 7D and 5D2 to get a 5D3 I did miss the 7D reach at times. So I'm not sayng that as a 7D owner trying to defend it. I simply got more detail on birds when I used the 7D a majority of, although not all, the time.

If they cut 6MP off it and made it 12MP the high iso performance would probably only improve by maybe 1/4 stop, being generous, at print view. Does it matter if the 100% view noise is worse? 100% view is not a fair comparison.

If it were only 12MP the reach advantage over the 5D3 would be a lot less and at that point, other than for the fps (of course 10fps vs 6fps is a big difference granted), why not get the 5D3? But what about a used 1D3 or 1D4 at that point? OK, I guess those are bulky.

But I don't see the point in giving up the reach just to, maybe, maybe, get 1/4 stop better SNR. And don't forget the tighter the 'grain' the less objectionable it looks and the more room you have to apply advanced NR techniques (as opposed to the simple filtering of high frequency noise from less MP).

You gain reach when the noise is not a problem and only get a tiny bit more noise, tiny bit, when the noise is a problem.

I have been through the Apsc/Apsh FF cycle and have yet to experience any significant loss of reach - in fact when I changed from the 1D4 to the 1DX I appear to have the same or even greater reach.
I am not too much up on the technical side but if Canon were to produce a 12MP Apsc sensor with the same tech as the 7D2 sensor then I would expect a significant improvement in ISO performance.
As to the "tiny bit more noise, tiny bit" I find the current 7D to be barely adequate under South Wales lighting conditions much of the time (hopefully the Mk2 is better) and at my normal working ISOs it is too soft as well as noisy. Admittedly I am using an 800mm lens so higher shutter speeds are required but my FF 1DX achieves this with ease and gives clean files - I have yet to use NR software with this camera. I just feel that it would be nice for Apsc shooters to have some of the advantages that the larger sensors can give, hopefully without the expense!

 

[Deleted member 91053]

As I wildlife photographer I don't see too much use for a 7D2 in less than perfect light

That's the problem with describing the newer crop cameras as "wildlife" cameras. The newer, high MP Canon crop sensors only work well in the best of light.

Reach doesn't matter much if fur and feather detail is obliterated by noise. I think we're at the point now that unless you shoot tiny birds, FF is the way to go for all applications.

+1
Though I should say that I generally photograph small birds (Kingfishers etc) and I am loving the results from my 1DX - significantly better than my 1D4 was and it also (in my opinion) gives a touch more reach despite the lower pixel density.