Canon will announce a new Cinema EOS camera ahead of NAB [CR3]

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
1,925
548
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
Red has real problems. They get completely owned on the top end by ARRI and they are fighting off both Canon and Black Magic on the bottom end. When you ask why Red it is pretty hard to come up with an answer. For the first year ever I am looking forward to NAB more than any of the camera shows.
I am seeing less and less reason for Red in their current state. It's precisely as you said. ARRI still owns the top end (and you can't even BUY them outright unless you are a MAJOR hollywood production house and even then they are leased more often) and then Canon and BM at the other end eating their lunch. Red can't get away with charging $2500 for a 1TB RegMag much longer and honestly surprised they have this long.
 

bgoyette

EOS 80D
Feb 6, 2015
100
46
But, if it doesn't have internal raw or is not full-frame, how is it above the C200, which has internal raw 4k up to 60fps?
It's interesting when you sit on forums where people are discussing the C500II and the FX9 daily, how many of them aren't interested in the 5.9k image at all, but what they want is the 4k oversampled. This provides a cleaner image, and makes the camera "tier 1" as it's a "true" 4k image --Which both the C500II and the FX9 do, and the C200 doesn't. (the c500 adds the 5.9k 60p raw output, which is really a big thing, but I'm not hearing a lot of excitement from the riffraff about it). Many of them also do not want Raw, they want a high quality compressed codec (something Canon has only put in it's upper level cameras (c300,500,700), but Sony has enabled in the FS7 and FX9, because that's a standard deliverable in the "owner-operator" market. If canon is interested in that chunk of the market, they have to compete directly with Sony.
 
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Arod820

Camera Operator
Sep 19, 2018
34
19
Miami
It's interesting when you sit on forums where people are discussing the C500II and the FX9 daily, how many of them aren't interested in the 5.9k image at all, but what they want is the 4k oversampled. This provides a cleaner image, and makes the camera "tier 1" as it's a "true" 4k image --Which both the C500II and the FX9 do, and the C200 doesn't. (the c500 adds the 5.9k 60p raw output, which is really a big thing, but I'm not hearing a lot of excitement from the riffraff about it). Many of them also do not want Raw, they want a high quality compressed codec (something Canon has only put in it's upper level cameras (c300,500,700), but Sony has enabled in the FS7 and FX9, because that's a standard deliverable in the "owner-operator" market. If canon is interested in that chunk of the market, they have to compete directly with Sony.
For some reason Canon seems to not be aware of Sony’s existence. Sony has been beating Canon to the punch on almost everything (except color science) but CNon refuses to compete directly with anyone.
 

Arod820

Camera Operator
Sep 19, 2018
34
19
Miami
What is wrong with the EF mount? Also you can use PL mount lenses on Canon cameras natively. Also you forget that Canon has a large line-up of EF Cinema lenses that are incredible.
Sony is very limited with just E lenses which are limited in range and options where EF lenses have a huge variety and add PL lenses it is mind boggling what options are available to you.
There’s nothing wrong with the EF line, but RF is the future and it’s more capable. You can use adapters (EF with drop in filters) for almost any lens. The RF bodies come with free adapters already. The only reason I can think of for continuing the C line with EF is Canon’s cinema lens line.
 

bgoyette

EOS 80D
Feb 6, 2015
100
46
For some reason Canon seems to not be aware of Sony’s existence. Sony has been beating Canon to the punch on almost everything (except color science) but CNon refuses to compete directly with anyone.
I don't think thats true in any way. Canon has technologies that lead the industry and Sony has technologies that lead the industry. Canon has always been a patient, plodding competitor, and their market share in most segments of the business generally proves that out. Their roll-out of the R system has been particularly interesting as they are building interest by releasing truly remarkable glass first...making the eventual "killer" body a must-have once they get it ready. Canon will dominate in the mirrorless sector sooner than later. Video is a different story, as it's been Sony's to lose for a very long time. But it's hard not to see the C200 as a very interesting first shot, followed by the very attractive all rounder C500II, as an even stronger volley, in the direction of Sony, Red and others...Canon's professional video division has always been a small player, but they seem to be interested now in making up for lost time. Time will tell.
 

SonarSonic

C100 MK II
Feb 18, 2020
1
0
As a dedicated C100 mk ii user of 4 years, I would really welcome a C100 mk iii. Although don't think they can really upgrade it without undermining the C200.
Although if they could made a C100 comparable camera with an even smaller form factor I would really welcome that as a single shooter, but in likelihood it'll be the C300 mk iii.
 
Feb 18, 2020
4
2
I really hope this will be a RF mount camera, or an interchangeable lens mount camera design that would allow for RF, EF and PL. It would require a body overhaul so they can get the RF mount close enough to the sensor. I think that's the way to go onwards. Canon has made clear their future is RF. It would be a shame to not be able to use the wonderful RF lenses on their next cinema camera. A lot of us are/will be switching to the RF ecosystem, especially with the release of the R5.

I would also love (and need!) to see more compressed raw options. The ~3:1 ratio we have right now creates too much data.
Then hopefully we'll get updated sensor tech in there that rivals more closely with what ARRI and RED are doing in terms of dynamic range, i.e. *true* ~14.5 stops of DR
 
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rontele7

I'm New Here
Nov 8, 2017
10
14
Earth
I personally think an RF mount C300 would be a big hit, preferably S35.

I work in documentary and unscripted TV, so for my world, FF is viewed as a bit of hindrance due to lack of available FF cine-zooms that don't weigh 10lbs or that don't cost $30k+. At the other end of the spectrum you have stills lenses, which are fine for certain cases, but there's really not much in the middle.

Anyway, I also think the RF mount would be a great move for Canon, because you can easily adapt EF & PL lenses to it. Best of all worlds.

And of course, the RF lenses released so far look truly fantastic, and better than their Sony equivalents, so that's a big plus too if you want to have a really simple camera package. That new RF 24-105 would be a killer documentary lens, especially paired with the ultra portable RF 70-200 for interviews and sports work.

When you consider that the R5 will have some great video features, then having an R5 as your B-cam for gimals, etc., and an RF C300 as your A-cam, that would really put Canon back in favor for a lot of shooters. At least that is what I think!
 
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RunAndGun

EOS RP
Dec 16, 2011
349
40
I am seeing less and less reason for Red in their current state. It's precisely as you said. ARRI still owns the top end (and you can't even BUY them outright unless you are a MAJOR hollywood production house and even then they are leased more often) and then Canon and BM at the other end eating their lunch. Red can't get away with charging $2500 for a 1TB RegMag much longer and honestly surprised they have this long.

Incorrect. The only camera you can't buy is the 65, everything else is available for sale, such as the Amira, Mini, Mini LF and every other version and variant of Alexa. And don't say only production and rental houses buy them. I know lots of individuals with Amira's and Alexa's.
 

mariosk1gr

EOS M50
Jan 4, 2019
30
10
As of me I wish for a new c100/c200 rf mount camera. My c100 mark ii is already 5 years old. It’s time for a refresh and that would be amazing timing for RF mount as an entry level cinema camera. Hope never dies...
 

Arod820

Camera Operator
Sep 19, 2018
34
19
Miami
Incorrect. The only camera you can't buy is the 65, everything else is available for sale, such as the Amira, Mini, Mini LF and every other version and variant of Alexa. And don't say only production and rental houses buy them. I know lots of individuals with Amira's and Alexa's.
You can get a used Amira on eBay these days for less than a C500ii, kinda makes you think!
 

Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
523
473
118
Williamsport, PA
There’s nothing wrong with the EF line, but RF is the future and it’s more capable. You can use adapters (EF with drop in filters) for almost any lens. The RF bodies come with free adapters already. The only reason I can think of for continuing the C line with EF is Canon’s cinema lens line.
You are right about the RF mount.
I just was saying the EF mount is well established in the Cinema cameras and the cinema lenses. Is there any advantage to the RF seeing as the cinema already have built in ND etc I believe.
But if they want to change, I have no heartburn over that either.
 

Kjsheldo

I'm New Here
Dec 9, 2019
19
17
As of me I wish for a new c100/c200 rf mount camera. My c100 mark ii is already 5 years old. It’s time for a refresh and that would be amazing timing for RF mount as an entry level cinema camera. Hope never dies...
hoping that’s where they go. The C100 would be a great first RF camera. Small, compact with 10-bit 4k up to 60fps. Doesn’t need raw, just a great, solid small doc camera.
 
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Kjsheldo

I'm New Here
Dec 9, 2019
19
17
Yes. Should be an RF mount base but with full interchangeable mounts to EF or PL. Easy to add on more length to a bolted on adapter. RED has been doing it for years on their cameras.

Come on, Canon. I want an RF Mount cinema camera to use those lenses on nowwww.
 
Feb 18, 2020
4
2
Anyway, I also think the RF mount would be a great move for Canon, because you can easily adapt EF & PL lenses to it. Best of all worlds.

And of course, the RF lenses released so far look truly fantastic, and better than their Sony equivalents, so that's a big plus too if you want to have a really simple camera package. That new RF 24-105 would be a killer documentary lens, especially paired with the ultra portable RF 70-200 for interviews and sports work.

When you consider that the R5 will have some great video features, then having an R5 as your B-cam for gimals, etc., and an RF C300 as your A-cam, that would really put Canon back in favor for a lot of shooters. At least that is what I think!
Looks like we posted at about the same time. :) You're definitely not alone, a lot of us want a RF mount video/film camera from Canon.
I'm also very curious about what the R5 will be able to do video wise and if indeed it could be used as a B cam. (hoping for some flavor of raw) That's why a RF cine camera is a no brainer, especially if you want it to work hand in hand with a mirrorless B cam. Same native lenses, same cards, same color, AF, etc.
 
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Feb 18, 2020
4
2
I work in documentary and unscripted TV, so for my world, FF is viewed as a bit of hindrance due to lack of available FF cine-zooms that don't weigh 10lbs or that don't cost $30k+. At the other end of the spectrum you have stills lenses, which are fine for certain cases, but there's really not much in the middle.
Oh and I think a 6K FF sensor would be the perfect choice because you can then go 4K S35 by using a crop of the sensor, use your S35 lenses etc. But then you'd have FF capabilities if you need it for FF image characteristics, greater resolution for better downsampling, or to give you crop options in post, or stabilization headroom. So really there are no downsides to FF cause it's more flexible. Only downside is probably higher price ;)
 
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Kjsheldo

I'm New Here
Dec 9, 2019
19
17
Looks like we posted at about the same time. :) You're definitely not alone, a lot of us want a RF mount video/film camera from Canon.
I'm also very curious about what the R5 will be able to do video wise and if indeed it could be used as a B cam. (hoping for some flavor of raw) That's why a RF cine camera is a no brainer, especially if you want it to work hand in hand with a mirrorless B cam. Same native lenses, same cards, same color, AF, etc.
EXACTLY. One mount, one set of lenses, same color, similar or same IQ, same codec, etc. Seems like nobody gets this, but all of those things are HUGE on a video project. Annoying when the EOS R doesn't have DCI 4K, which should be easy enough.

Give me some consistency across the models and I'll buy one cinema camera and one mirrorless camera. Or I just won't buy either and buy somewhere else. That's not cannibalizing yourself.
 
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