Flash for M5

troy19

Life w/o photography ? Possible, but pointless !
Dec 19, 2011
69
0
Hi,

I ordered an M5 and need a small and lightweight speedlite. Owning a 600rt I guess this como would be way missbalanced. So my idea was to use the 600 off shoe, pointing to the wall or ceiling and to trigger it with a small on shoe flash like 270exii but that has no master function and no radio connection, right?

So the only option is 430ex iii rt ?

The data:
270ex ii is 155g + 2 batteries
430ex iii rt is 295g + 4 batteries

Another possibility is to get a Speedlite Transmitter ST–E3–RT, but that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits.

Any other options? Or wait for Canon to make a 270ex iii rt ?
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,268
180
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
The 90EX has an integrated master function too which works with more or less modern cameras (40D works, 600D works, 5D classic does not) because the menu for the master functions is integrated into the camera operating system.

If this functionality isn't omitted for M5 (via a flash menu in the camera) you can use it for the purpose you intended.

By the way: this is the only reason I kept the 90EX speedlite (I bought in a bundle with EOS M) which is really tiny:
ca. 44,2 x 52 x 65 mm & ca. 50 g (w/o battery which is 2 x AAA)

Best - Michael

EDIT: Read your post again: If you rely on radio connection: 90EX isn't the right solution, it has only optical communication
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,470
708
Canon makes the 90 EX for the M series cameras, you can pick one up for a low price. I bought one to use on my Canon G1X.

One interesting thing is that it will act as a Master to control other Canon flashes by optical pre-flashes. I've used it to control my 580 EX II just to verify that it will trigger it. A white box is $64 right now on Amazon, I think I paid $45 two years ago. It definitely has some limitations, so read reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Canon-Speedlite-90EX-Flash-Camera/dp/B00GFWBOFC/ref=sr_1_3?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1479026529&sr=1-3&keywords=canon+flash+90ex
 

troy19

Life w/o photography ? Possible, but pointless !
Dec 19, 2011
69
0
Thanks mb66energy and Mt Spokane Photography for pointing me to the 90ex. Have to look closer into that option ...

Had a quick look into 90ex manual: optical communication is possible in +/- 40° horizontal and +/- 30° vertical. My setting for shooting events include one or more 600RT fixed in the room while I am shooting here and there, so the 600RT's could be everywhere, in front, behind, above. I have no experience, but I guess optical communication would fail under these conditions. So radio communications would be the way to go ?

Another question: why not use the internal flash to trigger the external flash(es). I guess internal flashes can communicate in optical way only? Or do you know of an EOS whose internal flash is able to send radio signals to e.g. 600exRT's ?
 

mb66energy

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 18, 2011
1,268
180
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
troy19 said:
Thanks mb66energy and Mt Spokane Photography for pointing me to the 90ex. Have to look closer into that option ...

Had a quick look into 90ex manual: optical communication is possible in +/- 40° horizontal and +/- 30° vertical. My setting for shooting events include one or more 600RT fixed in the room while I am shooting here and there, so the 600RT's could be everywhere, in front, behind, above. I have no experience, but I guess optical communication would fail under these conditions. So radio communications would be the way to go ?

Another question: why not use the internal flash to trigger the external flash(es). I guess internal flashes can communicate in optical way only? Or do you know of an EOS whose internal flash is able to send radio signals to e.g. 600exRT's ?
RED:
radio triggering is much more reliable because you do not need a direct line of sight (hopefully this is the right term). Reflected light may also work but you are in the need of reflective surfaces (white walls). Maybe a diffusor on the flash might help to increase the spatial angle but reduce the range to transmit the signals.

BLUE:
Just checked my 600D (most up to date DSLR I have):
Camera menu 1 -> Flash Control -> Built-In flash func setting -> Built-In Flash -> EaszWireless or CustWireless
then you get the freedom to set flash groups etc.
I am shure your 70D has at least the same capability and hope for the M5 that it has it too - I am very interested to use that camera!
 

troy19

Life w/o photography ? Possible, but pointless !
Dec 19, 2011
69
0
mb66energy said:
I am shure your 70D has at least the same capability and hope for the M5 that it has it too - I am very interested to use that camera!
Checked the manual of the 70d: the internal flash has optical communication only.

In the manual of the M5 I couldn't find any mention of radio communication, so I guess the flash function are about the same as 70d.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
No Canon camera body can directly trigger flashes by radio. Based on your usage, radio triggering is best. Seems like the 430EX III-RT would be your best bet.
 

bholliman

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 6, 2012
1,473
0
USA
www.flickr.com
neuroanatomist said:
Seems like the 430EX III-RT would be your best bet.
+1 I use a 430EXIII-RT as a radio master for one or more off camera 600EX-RT's and the set up works great, on my DSLR's or my M1, I expect to will b ed fine on my preordered M5.
 

troy19

Life w/o photography ? Possible, but pointless !
Dec 19, 2011
69
0
bholliman said:
neuroanatomist said:
Seems like the 430EX III-RT would be your best bet.
+1 I use a 430EXIII-RT as a radio master for one or more off camera 600EX-RT's and the set up works great, on my DSLR's or my M1, I expect to will b ed fine on my preordered M5.
Thanks. One more question: How about handling when 430ex iii RT attached to the EOS M1. Is that combo balanced? If you are ok with it, the M5 handling should be better because of the better ergonomics ...
 

Alex_M

EOS RP
Oct 16, 2015
345
2
Troy,
May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you? the following photo was taken with 600RT off camera slave controlled by an on camera wireless radio transmitter, AV priority and ETTL in a hurry...


troy19 said:
Hi,

I ordered an M5 and need a small and lightweight speedlite. Owning a 600rt I guess this como would be way missbalanced. So my idea was to use the 600 off shoe, pointing to the wall or ceiling and to trigger it with a small on shoe flash like 270exii but that has no master function and no radio connection, right?

So the only option is 430ex iii rt ?

The data:
270ex ii is 155g + 2 batteries
430ex iii rt is 295g + 4 batteries

Another possibility is to get a Speedlite Transmitter ST–E3–RT, but that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits.

Any other options? Or wait for Canon to make a 270ex iii rt ?
 

Attachments

troy19

Life w/o photography ? Possible, but pointless !
Dec 19, 2011
69
0
Alex_M said:
Troy,
May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you?
Your example photo may be taken under controlled conditions in a studio or at home where lights can be positioned where they have to be. Thinking of a location, event, wedding, and so on, I have one or more flashes to light up the room itself and want one little portrait flash to carry with me where ever I go. I hope having explained right, otherwise sorry as english is not my native language :)
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
troy19 said:
Alex_M said:
Troy,
May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you?
Your example photo may be taken under controlled conditions in a studio or at home where lights can be positioned where they have to be. Thinking of a location, event, wedding, and so on, I have one or more flashes to light up the room itself and want one little portrait flash to carry with me where ever I go. I hope having explained right, otherwise sorry as english is not my native language :)
Makes perfect sense. I sometimes use a 600EX on-camera as a master, instead of the ST-E3, for that reason. Of course, balance isn't an issue on my 1D X. For me, the 270EX II or ST-E3 (same size) is the largest I'd want on my M2, if using native M lenses.
 

troy19

Life w/o photography ? Possible, but pointless !
Dec 19, 2011
69
0
neuroanatomist said:
troy19 said:
Alex_M said:
Troy,
May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you?
Your example photo may be taken under controlled conditions in a studio or at home where lights can be positioned where they have to be. Thinking of a location, event, wedding, and so on, I have one or more flashes to light up the room itself and want one little portrait flash to carry with me where ever I go. I hope having explained right, otherwise sorry as english is not my native language :)
Makes perfect sense. I sometimes use a 600EX on-camera as a master, instead of the ST-E3, for that reason. Of course, balance isn't an issue on my 1D X. For me, the 270EX II or ST-E3 (same size) is the largest I'd want on my M2, if using native M lenses.
Weight is a very welcome side effect for me downsizing from 70d to M5. 70d + battery grip + 600ex is ok for a short time, but not for hours and hours.

So you're right, I don't want to put an 600ex on top of the M5.

Idea: ST-E3 on-camera and an 270ex ii Velcro-taped to the ST-E3. Function: ST-E3 triggers the room-600ex's by radio and the 600ex's trigger the 270ex ii. Mad, but possible? At first I wanted to use an 90ex instaed of the 270ex ii, but the 90ex doesn't have a slave function.

Wait, can optical and radio communications been mixed? No idea.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
troy19 said:
Weight is a very welcome side effect for me downsizing from 70d to M5. 70d + battery grip + 600ex is ok for a short time, but not for hours and hours.
I find the 1D X + heavy lens (or lighter lens and flash) ok to hold for a few hours, but that's mostly because using the E1 hand strap takes most of the weight off my fingers. Actually, my hand would probably hurt more after the same amount of time holding my M2, which is not nearly as ergonomic, IMO.


troy19 said:
Idea: ST-E3 on-camera and an 270ex ii Velcro-taped to the ST-E3. Function: ST-E3 triggers the room-600ex's by radio and the 600ex's trigger the 270ex ii. Mad, but possible? At first I wanted to use an 90ex instaed of the 270ex ii, but the 90ex doesn't have a slave function.

Wait, can optical and radio communications been mixed? No idea.
No, a master with both capabilities can be set to radio control or optical control, but not both at once. You can incorporate a non-RT flash into a Canon RT system with the Yongnuo YN-E3RX receiver, if you're willing to accept the risk of Yongnuo.

If you wanted a 270EX on-camera (that's what I use on my M2 when I need a flash, I passed on the 90EX because it can't be pointed up for bounce), rather than taping it on, your best bet would be a 3rd party radio trigger system (e.g. Phottix) that has pass-through E-TTL, you'd mount the transmitter to the camera, the 270 on top of the transmitter, and receivers under each slave flash (which is what lots of us did before Canon's RT system made life easier). Alternatively, put the Yongnuo YN-E3RX under it and attach it to the left side of the M5 with a Custom Brackets CB-Mini.

But honestly, those options are probably not worth the hassle – I think the 430EX III-RT is the way to go.
 

troy19

Life w/o photography ? Possible, but pointless !
Dec 19, 2011
69
0
neuroanatomist said:
No, a master with both capabilities can be set to radio control or optical control, but not both at once. You can incorporate a non-RT flash into a Canon RT system with the Yongnuo YN-E3RX receiver, if you're willing to accept the risk of Yongnuo.

If you wanted a 270EX on-camera (that's what I use on my M2 when I need a flash, I passed on the 90EX because it can't be pointed up for bounce), rather than taping it on, your best bet would be a 3rd party radio trigger system (e.g. Phottix) that has pass-through E-TTL, you'd mount the transmitter to the camera, the 270 on top of the transmitter, and receivers under each slave flash (which is what lots of us did before Canon's RT system made life easier). Alternatively, put the Yongnuo YN-E3RX under it and attach it to the left side of the M5 with a Custom Brackets CB-Mini.

But honestly, those options are probably not worth the hassle – I think the 430EX III-RT is the way to go.
Thanks neuro, your help is very much appreciated. Your detailed knowledge combined with personal experience about photographic equipment is simply great.

And yes, I too don't want to hassle with equipment, I prefer the simple solution. So maybe I get the 430 RT and see how it pairs with the M5. It's some time left, my dealer says Canon says delivery is end of November here in Germany, but we all know the worth of promises sometimes :)
 

Alex_M

EOS RP
Oct 16, 2015
345
2
troy,

Just to clarify: the photo was taken in run and gun manner at an event.. as I said: AV mode, ETTL. split second for me to point and shot. bare 600 RT flash slave approximately 10" above the camera on Promediagear Boomerang flash bracket in portrait orientation. flash controlled by wireless RT transmitter on camera. distance to subject - 4-5' approx.
On camera flash produce way to harsh light for my taste and unpleasing shadows. But that's just me.


troy19 said:
Alex_M said:
Troy,
May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you?
Your example photo may be taken under controlled conditions in a studio or at home where lights can be positioned where they have to be. Thinking of a location, event, wedding, and so on, I have one or more flashes to light up the room itself and want one little portrait flash to carry with me where ever I go. I hope having explained right, otherwise sorry as english is not my native language :)
 

Valvebounce

EOS 5D SR
Apr 3, 2013
4,239
183
52
Isle of Wight
Hi Alex.
The first time reading this through I thought wow a flash mounted on a bracket 10 feet long, then I checked and realised it was 10" not 10' d'oh.
Surprising how that 10" separation improves the shot even with a bare flash.

Cheers, Graham.

Alex_M said:
troy,

Just to clarify: the photo was taken in run and gun manner at an event.. as I said: AV mode, ETTL. split second for me to point and shot. bare 600 RT flash slave approximately 10" above the camera on Promediagear Boomerang flash bracket in portrait orientation. flash controlled by wireless RT transmitter on camera. distance to subject - 4-5' approx.
On camera flash produce way to harsh light for my taste and unpleasing shadows. But that's just me.


troy19 said:
Alex_M said:
Troy,
May I ask you: how is that would cut the ability of fill in flash for portraits for you?
Your example photo may be taken under controlled conditions in a studio or at home where lights can be positioned where they have to be. Thinking of a location, event, wedding, and so on, I have one or more flashes to light up the room itself and want one little portrait flash to carry with me where ever I go. I hope having explained right, otherwise sorry as english is not my native language :)
 

Alex_M

EOS RP
Oct 16, 2015
345
2
Graham,

Thank you, Sir! Yes, big difference. Here is link to the product photo in case you wanted to take a look at what it is.
I am very happy with it's performance so far.

http://www.promediagear.com/assets/images/flashbrackets/bbgv2/bbgv2-qr-pbx3-boomerang-flash-bracket-with-grip-promediagear(10).jpg
 

eosuser1234

EOS 80D
Jul 16, 2013
138
18
Japan.
I would suggest Pocket Wizards TT-1 and TT-5 setup using any Canon Flash.
Good product and the stuff just works as it should.
With the AC-3 you can have off camera wireless control of flash power of your Canon Speedlites. Very handy.