high-speed sync with wireless radio trigger?

[niels123]

This fan is a monster ;D It was already at its slowest speed.

Nevertheless, I use the same conditions when shooting models and have tried several times to shoot them jumping. There is clear motion blur in the face then, although they are, obviously, moving much slower than the fan.

From my logic, either the shutter speed or the flash duration are the limiting factor, depending on which one is the fastest. If my flash burst would be 1/50th of a second and my shutter speed 1/8000th of a second, the short exposure will still freeze motion. This is what I aim for, so I don't have to replace my camera or ligths yet, just a (cheap) radio trigger.

 

[Boromir883]

I am a slightely confused - we started to stop motion of an jumping model - now we are talking to stop a fast rotating fan
maybe something different?

 

[privatebydesign]

This fan is a monster ;D It was already at its slowest speed.

Nevertheless, I use the same conditions when shooting models and have tried several times to shoot them jumping. There is clear motion blur in the face then, although they are, obviously, moving much slower than the fan.

From my logic, either the shutter speed or the flash duration are the limiting factor, depending on which one is the fastest. If my flash burst would be 1/50th of a second and my shutter speed 1/8000th of a second, the short exposure will still freeze motion. This is what I aim for, so I don't have to replace my camera or ligths yet, just a (cheap) radio trigger.

The logic is sound, though your flash will be in the 1/600 -1/800 range judging by the specs I can find online. So finding a trigger that can 'HyperSync' your lights is the only option. Ask on FlashHavoc.com, they know everything about every third party trigger over there!

I am lucky, being in the USA we can get PCB Einsteins for a very good price and they are IGBT controlled flashes with very short flash durations at lower powers.

Cheapest HSS options would be the Chinese clone Speedlites, but FlashHavic will have the lowdown on them all.

I am a slightely confused - we started to stop motion of an jumping model - now we are talking to stop a fast rotating fan
maybe something different?

No we are not necessarily trying to stop the fan, we were trying to establish if a lower power led to a shorter flash duration, this is a key aspect to stopping motion with flash. It turns out it is more likely the CM#00 series is a voltage regulated flash, which means the flash duration is the same whatever the power level. If it had been the more modern IGBT design then as the power level was dropped the fan blur would decrease.

We don't expect the model to move as fast as the fan, we just need a constant speed of movement to gauge the flash duration.

 

[Boromir883]

oh, i understand - the model is a figure skater ;D

 

[Pookie]

This fan is a monster ;D It was already at its slowest speed.

Nevertheless, I use the same conditions when shooting models and have tried several times to shoot them jumping. There is clear motion blur in the face then, although they are, obviously, moving much slower than the fan.

From my logic, either the shutter speed or the flash duration are the limiting factor, depending on which one is the fastest. If my flash burst would be 1/50th of a second and my shutter speed 1/8000th of a second, the short exposure will still freeze motion. This is what I aim for, so I don't have to replace my camera or ligths yet, just a (cheap) radio trigger.

The flash duration is indeed your limiting factor... new lights with the shortest t.1 times. Either B1, Buff's,Elinchrom A heads or possibly a ton of speedlites. With a longer t.1 time the light will tail off slowly and always produce some form of blur.

Which Elichrome model does HSS? If it is triggered by the Skyport Plus HS it is not HSS, it is Hypersync/Hi-Sync.

Elinchrom is developing a new system to combat Profoto, as a longtime user I get to see new toys in hopes that I spread the word or use. The release date was not given but the ambiguous, sometime in 2016, possibly 2017. The Skyport Plus HS is a new trigger for the older (newly re-named) Quadras's. A day late and a dollar short they are. Did not have the heart to turn down the invite or tell the reps I have already moved to Profoto.

 

[Luds34]

The new Elinchrom do do HSS now, I was just at a trade show and saw their newest version... and yes, I do use PW to trigger my older Quadras in this pseudo HSS fashion before I moved to the Profotos. In truth though I never use HSS and only go above 1/200 with the X100S. Even with the B1's I never use HSS.

What do you do when you're shooting outdoors (say with your 135mm) and want narrow DOF, big bokeh? ND filters? And if so, what density, like a 3 stop typically?

 

[Pookie]

The new Elinchrom do do HSS now, I was just at a trade show and saw their newest version... and yes, I do use PW to trigger my older Quadras in this pseudo HSS fashion before I moved to the Profotos. In truth though I never use HSS and only go above 1/200 with the X100S. Even with the B1's I never use HSS.

What do you do when you're shooting outdoors (say with your 135mm) and want narrow DOF, big bokeh? ND filters? And if so, what density, like a 3 stop typically?

I do shoot HSS occasionally with the Profoto rig but I don't like HSS as it is a real battery drain. I'm also not a fan of ETTL as I like to drive and pick my exposure. Typically I shoot with ND's and have a range of them from 2-10 stops. My most used is either a 3 or 5 stop. The other trick is to hide your subject in the shade of your mod... I often use a 5 foot Octa and this can provide excellent coverage of most models in very harsh lighting outdoors. I use a 10'x10' 2-stop scrim from Matthews to knock down light sometimes also.

135 with a 5 stop...

 

[privatebydesign]

Which Elichrome model does HSS? If it is triggered by the Skyport Plus HS it is not HSS, it is Hypersync/Hi-Sync.

Elinchrom is developing a new system to combat Profoto, as a longtime user I get to see new toys in hopes that I spread the word or use. The release date was not given but the ambiguous, sometime in 2016, possibly 2017. The Skyport Plus HS is a new trigger for the older (newly re-named) Quadras's. A day late and a dollar short they are. Did not have the heart to turn down the invite or tell the reps I have already moved to Profoto.

So, exactly as I said, "Elinchrome do not do HSS on any model (http://www.elinchrom.com/learn/hss-hs.html), they do a proprietary Hypersync technique based on the work by PocketWizard called Hi-Sync. "

 

[Luds34]

What do you do when you're shooting outdoors (say with your 135mm) and want narrow DOF, big bokeh? ND filters? And if so, what density, like a 3 stop typically?

I do shoot HSS occasionally with the Profoto rig but I don't like HSS as it is a real battery drain. I'm also not a fan of ETTL as I like to drive and pick my exposure. Typically I shoot with ND's and have a range of them from 2-10 stops. My most used is either a 3 or 5 stop. The other trick is to hide your subject in the shade of your mod... I often use a 5 foot Octa and this can provide excellent coverage of most models in very harsh lighting outdoors. I use a 10'x10' 2-stop scrim from Matthews to knock down light sometimes also.

135 with a 5 stop...

Excellent, thanks for the info. I too am not a big fan of E-TTL. It's great for the "quick and dirty" on camera flash (hopefully bouncing of a ceiling or wall) running around a room grabbing snapshots.

One last question, do you ever use gels at all shooting outdoors? I'd think the flash and sunlight should be similar white balance... however (and this is applicable shooting in shade in general strobes or not) I've never liked how yellow the sunny background turns out sometimes in my experience.

 

[privatebydesign]

One last question, do you ever use gels at all shooting outdoors? I'd think the flash and sunlight should be similar white balance... however (and this is applicable shooting in shade in general strobes or not) I've never liked how yellow the sunny background turns out sometimes in my experience.

Flash is balanced for close to mid day sun around 5,500ºK. I always use gels 1/4, 1/2 and full cut CTO and CTS's when using flash in the morning or afternoon, unless I want a lot of subject background colour contrast then I might use a CTB and play with the WB.

 

[Pookie]

What do you do when you're shooting outdoors (say with your 135mm) and want narrow DOF, big bokeh? ND filters? And if so, what density, like a 3 stop typically?

I do shoot HSS occasionally with the Profoto rig but I don't like HSS as it is a real battery drain. I'm also not a fan of ETTL as I like to drive and pick my exposure. Typically I shoot with ND's and have a range of them from 2-10 stops. My most used is either a 3 or 5 stop. The other trick is to hide your subject in the shade of your mod... I often use a 5 foot Octa and this can provide excellent coverage of most models in very harsh lighting outdoors. I use a 10'x10' 2-stop scrim from Matthews to knock down light sometimes also.

135 with a 5 stop...

Excellent, thanks for the info. I too am not a big fan of E-TTL. It's great for the "quick and dirty" on camera flash (hopefully bouncing of a ceiling or wall) running around a room grabbing snapshots.

One last question, do you ever use gels at all shooting outdoors? I'd think the flash and sunlight should be similar white balance... however (and this is applicable shooting in shade in general strobes or not) I've never liked how yellow the sunny background turns out sometimes in my experience.

No problem, glad I could help... I do sometimes use 1/4 to possibly a 1/2 cut CTO gel on the baffles of my Octas to provide a color balance. You shooting weddings?

 

[Halfrack]

Currently I have 2x 600EX-RT and one monolight, which is a Menik CM-600.

I don't desperately need 1/1000th and currently I don't have the budget to purchase new speedlites or new monolites. However, it would be nice if I could freeze action (e.g. with jumping models and water) with my currentl lights and without investing a lot of money.

In the future, I will most likely sell the Menik monolight and purchase two high-quality monolights that support HSS, but currently it is out of my budget.

Ok, good news is you can use the two 600EX-RT speedlights and get up to 1/8000th in HSS - but you'll either have one on the camera, or use the ST-E3-RT or the knock off version on camera. That'll get you every shot no black bars.

Your Menik is what's causing your issue - the flash duration (see t1 and such above on the Paul C Buff site) is too long. It's also dependent on the XSync speed of your camera - somewhere between 1/180th and 1/250th. Replace it with something faster, that either does HSS or Hypersync or integrates with the rest of your flashes.

 

[Maui5150]

Forget where I saw the charts, but the ProFotos had teh shorted duration, but are also a fortune, the Einsteins were the best bang for your buck, and near the top were the Dynalite Sport Packs (like the M2000ER or AP1600) With Bi-Tube head, at Full power is around 1/3000 (t.5) and 1.2 second recycle. At 1/4 power (400WS) that is around 1/7000. I forget the Profoto numbers, but think they were over 1/10K and the Einsteins were in the middle.

For Dynalite, the Bi-Tube head is key. A normal 2040 etc is only around 1/1000, so around 300% decrease in flash duration for same power using the bi-tube head.

 

[privatebydesign]

Forget where I saw the charts, but the ProFotos had teh shorted duration, but are also a fortune, the Einsteins were the best bang for your buck, and near the top were the Dynalite Sport Packs (like the M2000ER or AP1600) With Bi-Tube head, at Full power is around 1/3000 (t.5) and 1.2 second recycle. At 1/4 power (400WS) that is around 1/7000. I forget the Profoto numbers, but think they were over 1/10K and the Einsteins were in the middle.

For Dynalite, the Bi-Tube head is key. A normal 2040 etc is only around 1/1000, so around 300% decrease in flash duration for same power using the bi-tube head.

The Eisteins can be as fast as 1/13500 sec, but that is at only 2.5Ws, look under the 'comparison data' tab here. http://www.paulcbuff.com/e640.php

 

[Luds34]

privatebydesign, pookie,

Thanks for sharing your uses/experiences on gels, I appreciated it.

 

[niels123]

What about these receivers?

http://www.amazon.com/Godox-Wireless-Transmitter-Monolight-Speedlite/dp/B00U5U4MX6

Would they work and allow me to choose shutter speeds faster than 1/1000th?