Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and Nikko

[Jester74]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

This thing made my day... Frankly, who the hell is gonna use it? This is just ridiculous. A MILC with a mirror? Nikon is doomed....

Well, interesting... But how will Nikon adapt their existing lenses to the new mount? I know, I know. With an adapter. But will that adapter contain the mechanical parts to drive aperture? Cos most Nikon lens still use mechanical aperture control. Only the newest lenses have electronic control. What about the millions of manual Nikon lenses? MILC guys just love playing with old manual lenses. And the new shiny Nikon FF MILC won't support them? LMFAO and still possible...

Nikon has a patent which is seen as the likely method they will use to adopt those non electronic lenses. It will be self contained with AF motor aperture control, and a pellicle mirror which will, of course, reduce the light going to the sensor by some amount. Sony has a similar device.
It will be expensive, have no provision for AFMA, and, IMHO mostly frustrating if not downright useless.
That's where Canon will have a big advantage, their EF lenses will work with a simple adapter that does not require all the claptrap to work.

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/09/03/lets-start-talking-about-the-upcoming-nikon-mirrorless-camera.aspx/

 

[fullstop]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

This thing made my day... Frankly, who the hell is gonna use it? This is just ridiculous. A MILC with a mirror? Nikon is doomed....

it is exactly the same "elegant adapter solution" Sony is offering for legacy A-mount lenses. ;D

 

[Jester74]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nikon says:
"Soon, Nikon users will have two industry-leading camera systems to choose from, giving consumers the choice to enjoy the unique values that each system offers."

So there will be DSLRs with F-mount, and MILCs with the new mount. And some sort of compatibility. Not so bad. Not too good either. One thing is sure; if you want the new/right stuff you gotta cough up some lotsa dollars. But with Nikon, at least you may not be a guinea pig. Maybe. Oh, yeah...

This thing made my day... Frankly, who the hell is gonna use it? This is just ridiculous. A MILC with a mirror? Nikon is doomed....

it is exactly the same "elegant adapter solution" Sony is offering for legacy A-mount lenses. ;D

 

[fullstop]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nikon says:
So there will be DSLRs with F-mount

yes ... for a few more years ;D
Wonder how many NEW F-mount lenses they will bring over next 3 years.

ofc it is the only course of action possible for Nikon.
1. Bring FF MILC system
2. bring F-mount adapter/s
3. make lots of new Z-mount FF lenses
4. bring APS-C MILC system
5. make lots of new Z-mount crop lenses
6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs
done.

If they survive the process, they'll have 1 relative advantage compared to Canon: only 1 mount for both FF and crop system, whereas Canon will have 2 ... EF-M [APS-C] and EF-X [FF]

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs

If people are still buying their crop and FF DSLRs, do you believe Nikon (or Canon) would phase them out? That would be...stupid.

 

[Jester74]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Sony will be phased out with their innovations...

6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs

If people are still buying their crop and FF DSLRs, do you believe Nikon (or Canon) would phase them out? That would be...stupid.

 

[Kit.]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Sony will be phased out with their innovations...

6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs

If people are still buying their crop and FF DSLRs, do you believe Nikon (or Canon) would phase them out? That would be...stupid.

One day I was in Hong Kong and found a huge Sony shop nearby. I decided to go there and see if I can buy an HDD caddy for the DVD bay in my VAIO S.

And that was how I learned that Sony "phased out" its entire notebook business.

 

[sdz]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Maybe you should stop because you are misusing the term vaporware. An uninformative news release does not make the product vaporware. Vaporware refers to a product that is announced as under active development when it is not. The Nikon mirrorless has been in active development for quite a while and at this point is almost certainly in production. Something that is in production is not vaporware.

Sorry, but announcing nothing specific and lacking an actual announcement date makes this vaporware, as I stated. I am not misusing the term. The term was commonly used to refer to announced product that did not ship after the announcement. Nikon's mirrorless FF camera will cease to be vaporware when it ships.

I do not believe the world is well served by marketing BS.

Vaporware generally refers to tech stuff that is announced (marketing BS) that the manufacturer never makes. In this case, I highly doubt that Nikon's FF mirrorless is vaporware, because I can't imagine Nikon not actually selling one at some point. It's technically not vaporware, as long as Nikon eventually ships it, and to be fair, in the computer world, there are products that are announced years in advance of the launch date, where the final product only vaguely resembles the announced one. On the other hand, I totally agree that this is vague product marketing that is really not informative. It's really just an aspirational ad that says, "Don't buy Sony, coz we have something cool coming. Promise!"

This, although I believe Nikon's mirrorless FF camera remains vaporware until it ships or until Nikon gives a specific ship date.

 

[fullstop]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs

If people are still buying their crop and FF DSLRs, do you believe Nikon (or Canon) would phase them out? That would be...stupid.

"IF". They won't. The also did not buy many more 1D film cameras after 2010.

 

[melgross]

Re: ** Nikon announces FF mirrorless ** without many details

Yep another Mirrorless camera out there and Canon sits back trying to
CATCH THE MICE WHILE THE ELEPHANTS ARE GALLOPING PAST
I believe at present Canon are so far behind designing our mirrorless generation camera that we all are hanging on and our bias remarks to other camera makers is showing our present concerns about the future of Canon cameras will our products turn into Vapourware never to be seen again

And I believe that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[denstore]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs

If people are still buying their crop and FF DSLRs, do you believe Nikon (or Canon) would phase them out? That would be...stupid.

"IF". They won't. The also did not buy many more 1D film cameras after 2010.

Bad example. Film vs digital doesn’t compare well to DSLR vs Mirrorless. There’s little, if any, performance gain in image quality with a mirrorless camera. Neither is there any real economic advantages.
Film was phased out because digital cameras showed advantages, first mostly in processing speed, then in economics, and only the last 5-10 years in image quality. And I’m still keeping my 1V for black & white photography. Yes, it’s big and heavy, and not thin. But in many ways better than any more modern camera I’ve owned.

 

[melgross]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

Nikon announces vaporware!

No!

Yes!

Eventually, Nikon will announce a camera, a few lenses and an adapter. But these are mist today. Nikon will eventually ship these items. Nonetheless, Nikon has promised us very little with their announcement, and nothing more than what we already knew.

Please, just stop it! All camera companies do a bit of preannouncement. We know that Nikon will make an official announcement in about a month, of real products. Vaporware was coined a long time ago when Grid came out with a tablet using their own OS. Microsoft announced that people should wait until theirs, which was in development, came out. Microsoft had no tablet OS in development at the time, and it was labeled as vaporware. Grid failed as a result of people holding back.

That’s not the case here.

Vaporware refers to every piece of hardware or software that has been announced or has as a rumor supported by company hints that does not yet exist as a shipping product.

Vaporware is marketing blather, as is Nikon's announcement.

So, I'll not stop. Why should I? This announcement was mere BS masquerading as information.

No, that’s not what it means. So a phone manufacturer mentioning that they will come out with new phones are announcing vaporware? That’s ridiculous!

Vaporware, if you understood it, means a product that’s announced, in same fashion, by a company that doesn’t follow throug with a product, or does, years later.

So, last year, when Canon did that interview about mirrorless, and they said that, yes, they were working on FF frame mirrorless, it was vaporware? So, every company that talks about future products are talking about vaporware?

That makes no sense. Your definition is odd, to say the least.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs

If people are still buying their crop and FF DSLRs, do you believe Nikon (or Canon) would phase them out? That would be...stupid.

"IF". They won't. The also did not buy many more 1D film cameras after 2010.

We know you won’t. How often do you have to be reminded that you don’t speak for the market as a whole? DSLRs are still outselling MILCs by a large margin. Even if that ratio eventually flips (and that could take many years) and MILCs outsell DSLRs 2:1, manufacturers will continue selling DSLRs.

As has been pointed out many times (most recently by denstore above), film to digital was a paradigm shift. DSLR to MILC is not.

 

[melgross]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

6. phase out crop DSLRs
7. phase out FF DSLRs

If people are still buying their crop and FF DSLRs, do you believe Nikon (or Canon) would phase them out? That would be...stupid.

"IF". They won't. The also did not buy many more 1D film cameras after 2010.

We know you won’t. How often do you have to be reminded that you don’t speak for the market as a whole? DSLRs are still outselling MILCs by a large margin. Even if that ratio eventually flips (and that could take many years) and MILCs outsell DSLRs 2:1, manufacturers will continue selling DSLRs.

As has been pointed out many times (most recently by denstore above), film to digital was a paradigm shift. DSLR to MILC is not.

As we can see, both canon and Nikon didn’t shelve their top film models until well after their sales were in the dump. I believe that Canon, just recently canned the last SLR.

They will stop selling DSLRs when they begin to lose money on them, and most of the last photographers who want them have ceased buying them.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

They will stop selling DSLRs when they begin to lose money on them, and most of the last photographers who want them have ceased buying them.

Exactly. And if that takes a decade, it may well be that MILCs never replace DSLRs, because some future paradigm-shifting product (e.g. lightfield/computational cameras) kill them both at the same time.

 

[fullstop]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

it does not matter if/how film vs. digital technically compares to DSLR vs. mirrorfree ... it is the market reaction that counts. If people get the same functionality in a smaller and/or more convenient and/or cheaper package, the old sh*t will die. Inevitably .

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

it does not matter if/how film vs. digital technically compares to DSLR vs. mirrorfree ... it is the market reaction that counts. If people get the same functionality in a smaller and/or more convenient and/or cheaper package, the old sh*t will die. Inevitably .

MILCs have been available for over a decade. FF MILCs have been available for 5 years. MILCs are still not outselling DSLRs.

 

[fullstop]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

it does not matter if/how film vs. digital technically compares to DSLR vs. mirrorfree ... it is the market reaction that counts. If people get the same functionality in a smaller and/or more convenient and/or cheaper package, the old sh*t will die. Inevitably .

MILCs have been available for over a decade. FF MILCs have been available for 5 years. MILCs are still not outselling DSLRs.

up to now CaNikon sold only FF mirrorslappers (70% of market). Give it another 2 years and we'll talk again. ;D

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

it does not matter if/how film vs. digital technically compares to DSLR vs. mirrorfree ... it is the market reaction that counts. If people get the same functionality in a smaller and/or more convenient and/or cheaper package, the old sh*t will die. Inevitably .

MILCs have been available for over a decade. FF MILCs have been available for 5 years. MILCs are still not outselling DSLRs.

up to now CaNikon sold only FF mirrorslappers (70% of market). Give it another 2 years and we'll talk again. ;D

With only APS-C, Canon is #2 globally and now #1 domestically in MILC sales. Canon's M line has been on the market for six years, and they still sell more APS-C DSLRs than MILCs.

The only thing that's in evitable in two years is that we'll both be two years older.

 

[fullstop]

Re: Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of Next Generation Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera and N

as long as rebel stuff is cheaper than EOS M stuff, no wonder.