Looking for upgrade recommendations from T6s

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,170
226
Davidson, NC
Good discussion all the way around. Where there is some disagreement the points made on both sides are helpful to consider. I've learned a few things about lighting. For some reason, I hardly ever do outdoor portraits any more, and that's the situation where I'd use fill-in flash. When the occasion comes up again, I'll try the bounce card for fill-in flash rather than just raising the shadows slider in ACR.

As for super wide-angle, I have the 10-22mm zoom for my T3i, and I have just the 24 end of the kit STM zoom for my 6D2. So if the need comes up any time soon for something wider than that, I'll pull out the T3i. The 16-35mm f/4 looks tempting, and I see the f/2.8 on sale for just a couple hundred dollars more (pros and cons for each, I realize). But since I've not needed to use the T3i for that since I've had the 6D2, and given that the realtor for whom I used to shoot some interiors has retired, I don't think I need to be in any rush. Maybe replacing the cheap 75-300mm telephoto with something better will be more of a priority.
 

wsmith96

Advancing Amateur
Aug 17, 2012
919
14
Texas
Duct_Taper said:
Hi everyone,

I bought a T6s about a year and a half ago as my first DSLR, mainly to get better pictures of my son (he's 19 months old now) than was possible with an iPhone. Since then I've gotten pretty interested in photography... mainly family stuff but also a decent bit of landscape and wildlife for fun. My current kit is:

Bodies - T6s w/ battery grip, SL1 (bought used)
Lenses - 18-135 STM, 55-250 STM, 24 STM, 40 STM, 50 STM
Lighting - 2x Godox TT685c, Godox X1c, and a basic backdrop and a couple of lightstands / umbrellas

I've been happy with both cameras and plan to keep both (T6s for my wife and SL1 as a cheap/light camera for travel or situations where I don't want to risk an expensive body), but I've learned enough about how cameras work that there are a few things that the T6s is missing that I'd like to have.

Basically, I've come up with the following requirements for a new body and am looking for advice on what to do.

Must haves:
  • Touchscreen (both T6s and SL1 have this and I like it too much to give it up)
  • Anti-flicker mode (I expect to be shooting indoor sports with my son eventually)
  • Full auto-ISO customization (T6s and SL1 both only have a setting for "max auto" - I want some control over the min shutter speed)
  • Custom modes on the mode dial - at least 2
  • DPAF (both the T6s and SL1 are decent in live view but I have heard DPAF is a big improvement)
  • Dedicated rear AF-On button (I'd like to use BBF but find the T6s and SL1 awkward when configured to use the * button)
  • Better RAW buffer depth (T6s and SL1 are both ~7 frames)
  • Better low-light AF (T6s is rated to -0.5 EV and I've had a few situations where it's really struggled)

Nice to haves:
  • Tilty-flippy screen
  • SD card storage (to keep only one card format)
  • In-viewfinder level
  • Better framerate (T6s is 5fps and SL1 is 4)
  • Larger/nicer viewfinder
  • AFMA
  • GPS
  • Built-in Wifi (I don't use it that much but it can be handy to have)
  • Built-in flash (again, don't use it that much but it's occasionally handy)

I haven't had any complaints about IQ from the T6s or SL1 so I'm not specfically looking for improvement there but if it comes along with the above then I won't be upset :)

Budget is, as always, a consideration... I'd like to spend as little as possible to get what I'm looking for, but I'm willing to wait/save for longer if it's really worth getting something more expensive.

tl;dr - Is the 80D a good bet or should I save/wait and get either the 6D II or 7D III? Or switch to Sony or Nikon? :)
I recommend the 80D as you've suggested for yourself. It's a fine camera that will serve you well and fits your lenses and listed needs.
 

ken

Engineer, snapper of photos, player of banjos
Aug 8, 2016
81
65
Huntsville, AL
Here's a thought: If you're thinking about possibly saving up for the 6D ii, you could stretch that a bit more and get the 80D along with the original 6D (probably with kit lens if you go used). You'd have the 80D for your main camera, and the 6D for low-light shooting. You could make use of your current lenses on the 80D, and acquire EF lenses over time, maybe starting with used or rentals.

The original 6D doesn't have the tilt screen and other niceties that you're looking for, but it takes amazing photos, and I can't conceive of giving up the low-light capability. I was holding out for the 6D ii myself, but it wasn't super compelling to me. So I'm waiting to see what the Canon FF mirrorless looks like... and will either go that route... or something else. I *do* have a need for the flippy / tilty screen, or else I'd already have jumped on the 5D iv.
 
Jul 12, 2011
375
8
I'd recommend another approach. Unless you have identified situations where the T6s absolutely cannot perform to your desire, keep using it. If GAS - gear acquisition syndrom - is severe, concentrate on full frame lenses. With a youngster, an 85mm is a terrific lens to keep your distance but get good close-up portraits. The f1.4 is supposed to be phenomonal but the f1.8 is budget friendly. the 70-300is gives you additional range from your 55-250 at a reasonable price. Consider adding a hot shoe flash or two for portability and perhaps some radio control units.
Someone has already recommended the 24-105L which will be a step up from anything you currently have image quality wise.
If you absolutely have to have a new body, give the 70D a hard look. Dual pixel, better viewfinder, improved low light, la di da da. Sell the T6s, give the SL1 to your wife (it will still be around for backup) and move on.
 

drob

EOS T7i
Jan 11, 2013
96
2
What about the SL2 and a few lenses? Then start saving up for 6D2 or 90D or whatever else comes down the line in a year or 2. But start your lens collection.
 

Duct_Taper

I'm New Here
Dec 19, 2017
18
0
Ottawa, Canada
I've definitely considered the original 6D as well as the SL2 as options, but neither of them have some of the key things that are my reasons for upgrading or that I want to keep (DPAF, touchscreen for the 6D and Auto-ISO, custom modes, AF-On button for the SL2).

The more I think about it the more I'm tempted to look at the 6DII for the high ISO advantage... I also realized I have a 28-90 4-5.6 II lens kicking around from an old film camera that I could use at least initially even though I know it's not a great performer.

I'm still struggling with justifying the lenses though... because for most of them it doesn't make much sense to sell the EF-S lenses while I still have EF-S bodies. E.g. the 18-135 is a better combination of range and IQ on EF-S than just about any FF lens would be for general purpose stuff, and the 70-300 isn't really that much more useful than the 55-250 while being heavier and bulkier. So in the end it probably means having two sets of lenses for the same purposes on the different sensor sizes rather than really having much commonality.

Maybe I should just sell it all and get everything FF? :)
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,056
328
Vancouver, BC
Duct_Taper said:
Maybe I should just sell it all and get everything FF? :)
If you can afford it, and there is nothing about crop that really draws you (a little extra reach once you get to the point where you can't afford longer focal lengths, a smaller body, or smaller size of some APS-C lens)... I'm sure that would make you happy :)

Personally, I've kept a bunch of my APSC gear for my home studio, though last year, I sold a whole bunch of it. When I control lighting, manually set exposure, and manually focus, the practical difference in the final image between t2/t3/5/t6/70d/80d/6dii are pretty small.

This will sound so silly, but you'll also notice that the mirror sound from the 80D or 6DII is much more satisfying :D
 

Duct_Taper

I'm New Here
Dec 19, 2017
18
0
Ottawa, Canada
So a quick update... haven't bought a new body yet but had almost convinced myself to go 6D II, waiting for a good deal to come up (the current one seems relatively decent - buy the 6D II and get a free 600EX II-RT).

In the meantime I picked up a 100 f/2 (I wanted one anyway and a good deal came up) and an old 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM (it was cheap and I needed something tele for a film camera I've been toying around with) so I have most of my bases covered for FF at least initially if I go that way.

Then the A7 III got announced for pretty much the same price as the 6D II and it's making me question whether to stick with Canon for the next body. 10fps, silent shooting, Eye AF, dual card slots, etc are all pretty tempting... but potentially means a whole other investment in lenses if the Canon ones don't perform well enough on an adapter. Also means giving up the fully articulated touchscreen with Canon's UI...

Any thoughts? Convince me that the 6D II is still the way to go? Or go back to looking at the 80D?
 

Sarpedon

EOS M50
Oct 30, 2014
42
0
Duct_Taper said:
So a quick update... haven't bought a new body yet but had almost convinced myself to go 6D II, waiting for a good deal to come up (the current one seems relatively decent - buy the 6D II and get a free 600EX II-RT).

In the meantime I picked up a 100 f/2 (I wanted one anyway and a good deal came up) and an old 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM (it was cheap and I needed something tele for a film camera I've been toying around with) so I have most of my bases covered for FF at least initially if I go that way.

Then the A7 III got announced for pretty much the same price as the 6D II and it's making me question whether to stick with Canon for the next body. 10fps, silent shooting, Eye AF, dual card slots, etc are all pretty tempting... but potentially means a whole other investment in lenses if the Canon ones don't perform well enough on an adapter. Also means giving up the fully articulated touchscreen with Canon's UI...

Any thoughts? Convince me that the 6D II is still the way to go? Or go back to looking at the 80D?
Switching systems is a drastic solution, and you should be totally sure it's the right move for you. I think for most people it isn't, it's just gear lust. The A7 III has great paper specs, but you could totally hate using it. That said, I switched over to the A7R III, kept my Canon lenses, and I'm in love with the thing. It's a blast to shoot and the files are amazing.

I think the best advice if you're considering switching systems is to rent: spend some real time with the Sony and see if you actually like it. Different camera systems, Sony especially I think, take time to get used to. Failing that, if you can't rent, find a brick and mortar store and spend as much time with one as you can.

Above all, be honest with yourself. Do I really enjoy shooting with this camera? Does it help me take better pictures? Does it motivate me to go out and shoot more than other cameras? If the answer to those three questions is yes, then go for it.
 

yjchua95

EOS M50
Jun 13, 2012
25
1
24
Duct_Taper said:
So a quick update... haven't bought a new body yet but had almost convinced myself to go 6D II, waiting for a good deal to come up (the current one seems relatively decent - buy the 6D II and get a free 600EX II-RT).

In the meantime I picked up a 100 f/2 (I wanted one anyway and a good deal came up) and an old 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM (it was cheap and I needed something tele for a film camera I've been toying around with) so I have most of my bases covered for FF at least initially if I go that way.

Then the A7 III got announced for pretty much the same price as the 6D II and it's making me question whether to stick with Canon for the next body. 10fps, silent shooting, Eye AF, dual card slots, etc are all pretty tempting... but potentially means a whole other investment in lenses if the Canon ones don't perform well enough on an adapter. Also means giving up the fully articulated touchscreen with Canon's UI...

Any thoughts? Convince me that the 6D II is still the way to go? Or go back to looking at the 80D?
The best camera is the one that you have in your hands.

I upgraded from a 60D (which was still serving me well) to a 6D Mk2 and am really happy with it.

If you want image quality samples, I've uploaded some photos I took with my 6D2 here for you to evaluate: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AkzrHH5MUh7tg-ld3G-azehKIHDh4w

I've been tempted by the A7 III, but I haven't found myself being limited by the DR of the 6D2 yet, and aside from the IQ of the A7 III, nothing else on it interests me. Canon's DPAF is excellent, and if you know how to make full use of the 45-point AF system on either the 80D or the 6D2, it performs pretty damn well.

Some were shot at pretty high ISO and still looked pretty good (you can view the EXIF data of each image). The birds were all shot with a Tamron 70-300 VC USD, while the close ups were shot with an EF 100 f/2.8L IS USM and wide-angle shots were done on a 24-70 f/4L IS USM.

That being said, I think you can't go wrong with the 80D and it might end up suiting you better. High ISO performance on the 80D is a hell of a lot better than on my 60D, and I rarely find myself needing to push above ISO 3200.

Also, you mentioned that you were interested in shooting wildlife. I highly recommend the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM if you're going to get the 80D. It's a massive upgrade over the non-STM version in terms of IQ and offers very good value for money.

That being said, the A7 III packs a lot of sorcery inside it, and if you get a Sigma MC-11 EF to E-mount adapter, PDAF and Eye-AF will still work like magic on the Sony.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,409
668
Way way back when I had a 40D, I decided to go FF. I knew that I needed 1.6X the focal length to get the same compositions, so I started replacing my lenses with FF. A 16-35mm f/4L works for both, a 24-105mm L a 70-200, and so on.

Any high zoom ratio lens like a 18-135 is a severe quality compromise, so don't worry about replacing it.
 

Valvebounce

EOS 5D SR
Apr 3, 2013
4,199
166
52
Isle of Wight
Hi Duct Taper.
I can’t speak to the IQ improvement yet, I only just bought the STM version to upgrade Angela’s kit, but I can say the leap from the AF of the version II to the AF of the STM Lens is phenomenal.
The speed improvement is incredible, from 16ft to near minimal focal length the STM takes a small fraction of the time of the grumbling version II, (I’d estimate it at 1/8 to 1/12th of the time) it also seems to be more positive about the point of best focus and the AI Servo tracking seems far superior too.
The comparisons were made sequentially on the same 100D body and were not particularly scientific, the targets being a kitchen cupboard door knob (far) and the edge of the door frame (near) and an estimation of the distance at 16ft and as such these are just my feelings of the performance of the lenses.

Cheers, Graham.

yjchua95 said:
I highly recommend the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM if you're going to get the 80D. It's a massive upgrade over the non-STM version in terms of IQ and offers very good value for money.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,056
328
Vancouver, BC
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Any high zoom ratio lens like a 18-135 is a severe quality compromise, so don't worry about replacing it.
Couldn't agree more. It just ins't possible to get L quality output from a lens with such a large focal range and such a small size and weight. But the 18-135 USM is still a really nice lens to complement the 80D :)
 

Duct_Taper

I'm New Here
Dec 19, 2017
18
0
Ottawa, Canada
Talys said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Any high zoom ratio lens like a 18-135 is a severe quality compromise, so don't worry about replacing it.
Couldn't agree more. It just ins't possible to get L quality output from a lens with such a large focal range and such a small size and weight. But the 18-135 USM is still a really nice lens to complement the 80D :)
Definitely understood... however, the 18-135 currently gets used a LOT for outdoor adventures with the kid. IQ is *good enough* and the flexibility of the zoom range means I get a fair number of shots that would otherwise require bringing & swapping between two lenses...

Body-wise, I looked again at A7 III vs 6D II for what I'm looking for and it seems to come down to:

A7 III advantages:
- 10fps
- 40/89 shot RAW buffer
- silent shooting
- IBIS
- dual card slots

6D II advantages
- OVF
- low-light AF (the Sony is rated to the same LV -3 but anecdotally DSLRs are still better in low-light)
- UI -> fully articulated touchscreen plus Canon menus, etc
- GPS
- fully works with my EF lenses and Canon accessories (lighting, etc)
- fits in with my existing post processing workflow

Everything else is close enough to be equal as far as I'm concerned. So despite the incredible spec sheet of the A7 III, it's definitely not the home run it would seem to be over the 6D II, at least for me...
 

yjchua95

EOS M50
Jun 13, 2012
25
1
24
Duct_Taper said:
Talys said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Any high zoom ratio lens like a 18-135 is a severe quality compromise, so don't worry about replacing it.
Couldn't agree more. It just ins't possible to get L quality output from a lens with such a large focal range and such a small size and weight. But the 18-135 USM is still a really nice lens to complement the 80D :)
Definitely understood... however, the 18-135 currently gets used a LOT for outdoor adventures with the kid. IQ is *good enough* and the flexibility of the zoom range means I get a fair number of shots that would otherwise require bringing & swapping between two lenses...

Body-wise, I looked again at A7 III vs 6D II for what I'm looking for and it seems to come down to:

A7 III advantages:
- 10fps
- 40/89 shot RAW buffer
- silent shooting
- IBIS
- dual card slots

6D II advantages
- OVF
- low-light AF (the Sony is rated to the same LV -3 but anecdotally DSLRs are still better in low-light)
- UI -> fully articulated touchscreen plus Canon menus, etc
- GPS
- fully works with my EF lenses and Canon accessories (lighting, etc)
- fits in with my existing post processing workflow

Everything else is close enough to be equal as far as I'm concerned. So despite the incredible spec sheet of the A7 III, it's definitely not the home run it would seem to be over the 6D II, at least for me...
yjchua95 said:
The best camera is the one that you have in your hands.

I upgraded from a 60D (which was still serving me well) to a 6D Mk2 and am really happy with it.

If you want image quality samples, I've uploaded some photos I took with my 6D2 here for you to evaluate: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AkzrHH5MUh7tg-ld3G-azehKIHDh4w

I've been tempted by the A7 III, but I haven't found myself being limited by the DR of the 6D2 yet, and aside from the IQ of the A7 III, nothing else on it interests me. Canon's DPAF is excellent, and if you know how to make full use of the 45-point AF system on either the 80D or the 6D2, it performs pretty damn well.

Some were shot at pretty high ISO and still looked pretty good (you can view the EXIF data of each image). The birds were all shot with a Tamron 70-300 VC USD, while the close ups were shot with an EF 100 f/2.8L IS USM and wide-angle shots were done on a 24-70 f/4L IS USM.

That being said, I think you can't go wrong with the 80D and it might end up suiting you better. High ISO performance on the 80D is a hell of a lot better than on my 60D, and I rarely find myself needing to push above ISO 3200.

Also, you mentioned that you were interested in shooting wildlife. I highly recommend the EF-S 55-250mm IS STM if you're going to get the 80D. It's a massive upgrade over the non-STM version in terms of IQ and offers very good value for money.

That being said, the A7 III packs a lot of sorcery inside it, and if you get a Sigma MC-11 EF to E-mount adapter, PDAF and Eye-AF will still work like magic on the Sony.
You forgot to mention ergonomics too, it's usually better on DSLRs.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,056
328
Vancouver, BC
Duct_Taper said:
A7 III advantages:
- 10fps
- 40/89 shot RAW buffer
- silent shooting
- IBIS
- dual card slots
I am playing with an A7R3 right now, and I have to mention the fine print....

- 10fps is only in Hi+ drive mode. But Sony recommends you use Hi, which is 8 fps... because in Hi+, what you see on the display/viewfinder is not real time (!!). So, 10fps, as long as your action scene doesn't require that you move the camera.

- Silent shooting has turned into a dud for me. I thought it would be cool because hummingbirds sometimes fly off with shutter noise. The problem? IQ is lower, and very notably, distortion. It can be pretty awful. Sony recommends that you turn it off for high speed shooting.

I guess if I did weddings or whatever, there might be a use. But it is disappointing.

- IBIS sounds great. Except I've been using the GMaster 70-200 and 100-400 (with OSS too), and the IS difference is not noticeable. Maybe it's just my perception.

There's another major pro for Canon, by the way. All the high-end lenses are mechanical focus, so you can grab it and twist it. All the high-end Sony lenses are focus by wire and require you to do stupid things (like push a button) before you MF. In addition, the rotation to take you from minimum zoom to maximum zoom, and from MFD to infinity both take much more effort, and you can't jump from one end to the other nearly as quickly.

If low light matters to you, you can purchase a flash or the Yongnuo version of the ST-E3, and autofocus in everything up to pitch black is instant on a Canon 6D2. On the Sony, two things are gimpy:

- If you're in a room lit by something like a fireplace, forget it. You'll never get autofocus.

- If you set aperture smaller than f/8, the camera only supports contrast detection autofocus. Which is about as fun as Nikon live view autofocusing. I'm not talking about the minimum aperture (eg due to extenders or what not) -- I mean the aperture that you set. This actually screws me over on portraiture, as my go-to apertures can be up to f/11 with studio strobes.

On the other side of it all, the Sony stuff you didn't mention that I find really noteworthy:

- Eye AF is very good and works with most adapted lenses in the portraiture sweet spot of focal lengths (it falls apart with adapted telephotos, including at the far end of the 70-200).

- APSC crop mode is pretty awesome.

- The grip is retardedly expensive ($300!!!!). The Sony one is also very heavy, and the only third-party one at the moment is junk. But if you buy an A7iii, you pretty much have to buy a grip, because otherwise, it's an ergonomic nightmare. On the bright side, you now have the footprint of approximately a DSLR... but you actually have a very decent portrait orientation grip, without adding further bulk/weight.
 

Isaacheus

EOS RP
Jun 22, 2017
200
12
New Zealand
Talys said:
Duct_Taper said:
A7 III advantages:
- 10fps
- 40/89 shot RAW buffer
- silent shooting
- IBIS
- dual card slots
I am playing with an A7R3 right now, and I have to mention the fine print....

- 10fps is only in Hi+ drive mode. But Sony recommends you use Hi, which is 8 fps... because in Hi+, what you see on the display/viewfinder is not real time (!!). So, 10fps, as long as your action scene doesn't require that you move the camera.

- Silent shooting has turned into a dud for me. I thought it would be cool because hummingbirds sometimes fly off with shutter noise. The problem? IQ is lower, and very notably, distortion. It can be pretty awful. Sony recommends that you turn it off for high speed shooting.

I guess if I did weddings or whatever, there might be a use. But it is disappointing.

- IBIS sounds great. Except I've been using the GMaster 70-200 and 100-400 (with OSS too), and the IS difference is not noticeable. Maybe it's just my perception.

There's another major pro for Canon, by the way. All the high-end lenses are mechanical focus, so you can grab it and twist it. All the high-end Sony lenses are focus by wire and require you to do stupid things (like push a button) before you MF. In addition, the rotation to take you from minimum zoom to maximum zoom, and from MFD to infinity both take much more effort, and you can't jump from one end to the other nearly as quickly.

If low light matters to you, you can purchase a flash or the Yongnuo version of the ST-E3, and autofocus in everything up to pitch black is instant on a Canon 6D2. On the Sony, two things are gimpy:

- If you're in a room lit by something like a fireplace, forget it. You'll never get autofocus.

- If you set aperture smaller than f/8, the camera only supports contrast detection autofocus. Which is about as fun as Nikon live view autofocusing. I'm not talking about the minimum aperture (eg due to extenders or what not) -- I mean the aperture that you set. This actually screws me over on portraiture, as my go-to apertures can be up to f/11 with studio strobes.

On the other side of it all, the Sony stuff you didn't mention that I find really noteworthy:

- Eye AF is very good and works with most adapted lenses in the portraiture sweet spot of focal lengths (it falls apart with adapted telephotos, including at the far end of the 70-200).

- APSC crop mode is pretty awesome.

- The grip is retardedly expensive ($300!!!!). The Sony one is also very heavy, and the only third-party one at the moment is junk. But if you buy an A7iii, you pretty much have to buy a grip, because otherwise, it's an ergonomic nightmare. On the bright side, you now have the footprint of approximately a DSLR... but you actually have a very decent portrait orientation grip, without adding further bulk/weight.
A couple of questions from your experience; with the silent shooting, what sort of iq difference have you found? Distortion is pretty typical with the non-stacked sensors, so that one is a given at this stage. I've heard mixed reports here, but haven't seen anything negative other than distortion on moving subjects in my use

With the f8 focusing, have you tried turning the exposure simulation off while shooting? You lose the wysiwyg but it seems to focus fine otherwise on mine? I believe that was the work around - it has it's own draw backs sure but that might help your situation/be worth a try

IBIS seems to be best suited for lenses without built in lens stabilisation I've found - I think it defers to the in-built lens one when it is aware of it (at least, that's what it does on my adapted lenses). With the sigma arts, it seems to work a treat so far

Can't comment on the rest as haven't been using native glass as a rule, apart from agreeing about eye- af, and the crop mode (super useful with the sigma 35mm art in video, makes it a 35 and 50mm in one)


For the OP; if you have any interest in video, the sony is a really good option here, for the different file formats etc. I don't think you could really go wrong with either the A73 or the 6dmk2 though as an upgrade, but I'd be hesitant to pay the current price of the 6dmk2 if I could avoid it.

The other pros I'd put for the sony would be the evf, depending on what type of shooting you do and what you like to have in the view finder, and how customisable the buttons are on the Sony (which I find a pain on the 6d, smaller thing but menu diving for bracketing and having to press a few buttons for iso changes).

I'd put weather sealing on the canon 'pro' side, but I having lost a 6d to weather, I'd be hesitant to use either in a rain storm without cover. Not sure if that is a factor for what you're doing.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,056
328
Vancouver, BC
Isaacheus said:
A couple of questions from your experience; with the silent shooting, what sort of iq difference have you found? Distortion is pretty typical with the non-stacked sensors, so that one is a given at this stage. I've heard mixed reports here, but haven't seen anything negative other than distortion on moving subjects in my use
Even on slowly moving subjects, though, silent shooting creates distortion -- and it's pretty trippy distortion :) When I was fooling around with it, a trellis with vines on it gently swaying in the wind looked messed up on the silent-shoot version versus the non-silent.

Keep in mind that I was trying to photograph hummingbirds, and I do want to capture them in motion. As I mentioned, I think it would be a nice tool for things like events where you're trying to be quiet, less so, when you're trying to be sneaky trying to capture animals in the moment :D

Isaacheus said:
With the f8 focusing, have you tried turning the exposure simulation off while shooting? You lose the wysiwyg but it seems to focus fine otherwise on mine? I believe that was the work around - it has it's own draw backs sure but that might help your situation/be worth a try
I'm sure that you mean Live View Display, Setting Effect On/Off, right? When there's a lot of light, like outdoors, f/11 it isn't terrible anyways.

But the situation that I usually need it in is where it's not so bright, and I'm using flashes and strobes. Imagine a room that's lit with a couple of 60W bulbs, for example. In this case, what happens at f/8 is that autofocus works with minimal hunting. In most cases, f/8 AF sounds like "tick". In f/11, every single time the camera goes from defocused to focused, you can hear the AF motor go "tick-tick-tock" as it moves past the in-focus point, and then back to best focus.

The live View Display Setting Effect is absolutely critical for flash photography anyways, because otherwise, you either have an overexposed image... or you have no idea what you're photographing :D It's a good implementation, IMO.

Isaacheus said:
IBIS seems to be best suited for lenses without built in lens stabilisation I've found - I think it defers to the in-built lens one when it is aware of it (at least, that's what it does on my adapted lenses). With the sigma arts, it seems to work a treat so far

Can't comment on the rest as haven't been using native glass as a rule, apart from agreeing about eye- af, and the crop mode (super useful with the sigma 35mm art in video, makes it a 35 and 50mm in one)
I see. I did not know this, thanks!

Isaacheus said:
I'd put weather sealing on the canon 'pro' side, but I having lost a 6d to weather, I'd be hesitant to use either in a rain storm without cover. Not sure if that is a factor for what you're doing.
My biggest problem with the weather sealing, to be honest, is that the battery compartment has zero weather sealing (it's quite obvious if you flip open the door). I use a blackrapid, so my camera is almost always upside down, so you can imagine my concern...

I do not know what the weather sealing situation is with the grip (since the battery door isn't exposed). However, I would worry that water would travel down the grip, to a crevice, and through the door.
 

Isaacheus

EOS RP
Jun 22, 2017
200
12
New Zealand
Talys said:
Isaacheus said:
A couple of questions from your experience; with the silent shooting, what sort of iq difference have you found? Distortion is pretty typical with the non-stacked sensors, so that one is a given at this stage. I've heard mixed reports here, but haven't seen anything negative other than distortion on moving subjects in my use
Even on slowly moving subjects, though, silent shooting creates distortion -- and it's pretty trippy distortion :) When I was fooling around with it, a trellis with vines on it gently swaying in the wind looked messed up on the silent-shoot version versus the non-silent.

Keep in mind that I was trying to photograph hummingbirds, and I do want to capture them in motion. As I mentioned, I think it would be a nice tool for things like events where you're trying to be quiet, less so, when you're trying to be sneaky trying to capture animals in the moment :D

Isaacheus said:
With the f8 focusing, have you tried turning the exposure simulation off while shooting? You lose the wysiwyg but it seems to focus fine otherwise on mine? I believe that was the work around - it has it's own draw backs sure but that might help your situation/be worth a try
I'm sure that you mean Live View Display, Setting Effect On/Off, right? When there's a lot of light, like outdoors, f/11 it isn't terrible anyways.

But the situation that I usually need it in is where it's not so bright, and I'm using flashes and strobes. Imagine a room that's lit with a couple of 60W bulbs, for example. In this case, what happens at f/8 is that autofocus works with minimal hunting. In most cases, f/8 AF sounds like "tick". In f/11, every single time the camera goes from defocused to focused, you can hear the AF motor go "tick-tick-tock" as it moves past the in-focus point, and then back to best focus.

The live View Display Setting Effect is absolutely critical for flash photography anyways, because otherwise, you either have an overexposed image... or you have no idea what you're photographing :D It's a good implementation, IMO.

Isaacheus said:
IBIS seems to be best suited for lenses without built in lens stabilisation I've found - I think it defers to the in-built lens one when it is aware of it (at least, that's what it does on my adapted lenses). With the sigma arts, it seems to work a treat so far

Can't comment on the rest as haven't been using native glass as a rule, apart from agreeing about eye- af, and the crop mode (super useful with the sigma 35mm art in video, makes it a 35 and 50mm in one)
I see. I did not know this, thanks!

Isaacheus said:
I'd put weather sealing on the canon 'pro' side, but I having lost a 6d to weather, I'd be hesitant to use either in a rain storm without cover. Not sure if that is a factor for what you're doing.
My biggest problem with the weather sealing, to be honest, is that the battery compartment has zero weather sealing (it's quite obvious if you flip open the door). I use a blackrapid, so my camera is almost always upside down, so you can imagine my concern...

I do not know what the weather sealing situation is with the grip (since the battery door isn't exposed). However, I would worry that water would travel down the grip, to a crevice, and through the door.
Huh weird, I've found that slower moving objects seem to come up OK in my experience, so I wonder if it's more affected by certain shutter speeds? It's great for landscapes and timelapse, which is where most of my shooting is done. I guess the a9 is where they want you to be at for true silent shooting and action though

On the af point, I think part of the trouble is that it tries to focus with the lens stopped down, rather than opening the aperture up to get focus first, at least with one of the exposure simulations on: turning it off means that it will focus wide open and then stop down to the wanted aperture on shooting. Whether this is useful to you, or even the issue with focus and strobes, I'm not sure. All I can remember is that it's one of the settings I leave on, as I don't typically use strobes/flash.

The weather sealing at the bottom seems to be the issue yeah; I'm normally on a tripod, so not such an issue there hopefully. Looking for a good cover (for both the sony and Canon) to minimise the risk overall. Can't really justify a 5dmk4 or 1dx2 just for the sake of a cover vs weather sealing

I've always wondered about the crevices on battery grips and sealing, interested to know if anyone has had any issues with Canon ones?
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,056
328
Vancouver, BC
Isaacheus said:
Huh weird, I've found that slower moving objects seem to come up OK in my experience, so I wonder if it's more affected by certain shutter speeds? It's great for landscapes and timelapse, which is where most of my shooting is done. I guess the a9 is where they want you to be at for true silent shooting and action though
I have a sequence of 13 photos of a very large dog as it swims across a lake and then leaps into action. It was taken with an A7R3 using center + expanding and shot at 8fps in Hi mode. Shutter speed I think is 1/2500.

The photos while the dog is swimming towards me are relatively sharp, though not perfectly so. At 1500 - 2000 long edge resolutions, I think they're clear enough. However, as the dog moves into rapid action and splashes water around, the AF system gets confused, and sometimes focuses on the water droplets instead of the dog!

Now, I know that I could have selected one of the "lock on the subject" modes, but I hate doing this, because it basically screws me over with quickly taking a picture of something else interesting that pops up. Plus, being used to tracking subjects with center point AF, I'm quite comfortable with keeping camera pointed where the subject is.

Out of the 13 shots, 5 are pre-action and fine. Of the remaining 8, only 3 are sharp enough to share; the rest are either just out of focus, or, the camera is focusing on the water droplets in the air. Perhaps I'll post them up so that others can see.

Isaacheus said:
On the af point, I think part of the trouble is that it tries to focus with the lens stopped down, rather than opening the aperture up to get focus first, at least with one of the exposure simulations on: turning it off means that it will focus wide open and then stop down to the wanted aperture on shooting. Whether this is useful to you, or even the issue with focus and strobes, I'm not sure. All I can remember is that it's one of the settings I leave on, as I don't typically use strobes/flash.
I'm sure you mean Live View/Setting Effect On/Off. It does not seem to improve things, but frankly, the camera is unusable with Effect On (WYSIWYG) when you're using flash, because if you're correctly exposed to see stuff, the flash will just wash everythign out. If you have it configured for the flash, you won't see anything at all through the VF :D

Setting Effect to OFF, which make the VF always bright, does not appear to help.[/quote]

Isaacheus said:
The weather sealing at the bottom seems to be the issue yeah; I'm normally on a tripod, so not such an issue there hopefully. Looking for a good cover (for both the sony and Canon) to minimise the risk overall. Can't really justify a 5dmk4 or 1dx2 just for the sake of a cover vs weather sealing

I've always wondered about the crevices on battery grips and sealing, interested to know if anyone has had any issues with Canon ones?
The crevices on the battery grips and base have no impact on a canon. I think they exist to help grip the tripod plate to the base.

TBH, the weather sealing isn't a huge deal for me, because I don't shoot very often when it's raining, certainly not more than if it's a little drizzle. But still, I'd much rather have a camera that's weather sealed than not. Sometimes a little water or moisture is just unavoidable.

By the way, here's one of the sharper images of the dog.
 

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