Profoto b1 2 light kit vs elinchrom elb400 2 light kit

[gjones5252]

I am looking at these two units. I am really interested in acquiring nice flash heads that are going to last for a while and be useful in many settings.
I do weddings, events, in the middle of no where photo shoots.
Nothing in the studio.
Does anyone own or have any input?

 

[pwp]

Both nice kits, but have a look at PCB Einstein. Having owned and mercilessly punished both Elincrom and Profoto systems, I'd take the Einsteins over either of them any day. My Profotos were at the repair shop more often than I would have liked. As you're primarily working on on location, you need to consider weight. The Einsteins are very light, and mine have passed the three year tough-test flawlessly. I have six Einsteins, VML's, mods etc

http://paulcbuff.com/vagabond.php batteries
http://paulcbuff.com/e640.php Einstein

Not that I have needed it, PCB support is legendary.

-pw

 

[CreationHeart]

I am looking at these two units. I am really interested in acquiring nice flash heads that are going to last for a while and be useful in many settings.
I do weddings, events, in the middle of no where photo shoots.
Nothing in the studio.
Does anyone own or have any input?

B1 location kit is the best (in many ways) location strobes ever made.

 

[gjones5252]

AHHH
I have just got on board after looking at the Einsteins. And i get back on here and see a recommendation for the B1!
haha
Well my biggest concern with the Einsteins is the sole use of Manual mode. However i must admit i hate using Ettl in my 600ex. I feel like i am the odd man out when it come to knowing what is going on. I never get the exposure i want and i find it actually faster(if its not rapidly unfolding series of events) to shoot manual.

The Einsteins-Stopping power, Power, price, price of modifiers. and i can get a large battery.
I do think the B1 are good but they are small specific batteries and i have made it a point of buying things that can be used for more than one activity. Vagabond batteries while large are able to carry so many more charges and recycle faster.
@pwp Can you give me recommendations on some modifiers to purchase as a basic starter kit?
here is what i am looking at so far. OMNI 18-inch Reflector is the one i am thinking of to start. Seems it makes a decent beauty dish and i could use it for sports( i really want to get into that!) I have very basic 42inch umbrellas i can use for now until i exhaust the option i have(aka more $).


E640 Einstein E640 Studio Flash Unit $499.95 ea. 2 $999.90
Submit change qty
then click
VLX/BAG-G* Vagabond Lithium Extreme Cool Grey w/Free VLXBAG $399.95 ea. 2 $799.90
Submit change qty
then click
CC Cyber Commander $179.95 ea. 1 $179.95
Submit change qty
then click
CST CyberSync Trigger Transmitter $59.95 ea. 1 $59.95
Submit change qty
then click
CSXCV CyberSync Transceiver Module $29.95 ea. 2 $59.90
Submit change qty
then click
MAXFT12MMUV Einstein 12MM Flashtube, UV $34.95 ea. 1 $34.95
Submit change qty
then click
OMNI18R OMNI 18-inch Reflector $79.95 ea. 2 $159.90
Submit change qty
then click
PCBBAG Einstein/Alienbee Single Light Carrying Bag $12.95 ea. 2 $25.90

 

[BeenThere]

AHHH
I have just got on board after looking at the Einsteins. And i get back on here and see a recommendation for the B1!
haha
Well my biggest concern with the Einsteins is the sole use of Manual mode. However i must admit i hate using Ettl in my 600ex. I feel like i am the odd man out when it come to knowing what is going on. I never get the exposure i want and i find it actually faster(if its not rapidly unfolding series of events) to shoot manual.

The Einsteins-Stopping power, Power, price, price of modifiers. and i can get a large battery.
I do think the B1 are good but they are small specific batteries and i have made it a point of buying things that can be used for more than one activity. Vagabond batteries while large are able to carry so many more charges and recycle faster.
@pwp Can you give me recommendations on some modifiers to purchase as a basic starter kit?
here is what i am looking at so far. OMNI 18-inch Reflector is the one i am thinking of to start. Seems it makes a decent beauty dish and i could use it for sports( i really want to get into that!) I have very basic 42inch umbrellas i can use for now until i exhaust the option i have(aka more $).


E640 Einstein E640 Studio Flash Unit $499.95 ea. 2 $999.90
Submit change qty
then click
VLX/BAG-G* Vagabond Lithium Extreme Cool Grey w/Free VLXBAG $399.95 ea. 2 $799.90
Submit change qty
then click
CC Cyber Commander $179.95 ea. 1 $179.95
Submit change qty
then click
CST CyberSync Trigger Transmitter $59.95 ea. 1 $59.95
Submit change qty
then click
CSXCV CyberSync Transceiver Module $29.95 ea. 2 $59.90
Submit change qty
then click
MAXFT12MMUV Einstein 12MM Flashtube, UV $34.95 ea. 1 $34.95
Submit change qty
then click
OMNI18R OMNI 18-inch Reflector $79.95 ea. 2 $159.90
Submit change qty
then click
PCBBAG Einstein/Alienbee Single Light Carrying Bag $12.95 ea. 2 $25.90

Looks like your use is primarily outdoor, no studio portraits, is that correct? What about light stands?

 

[Pookie]

I own both... Profoto B1's and the Eli Quadra set before the renaming. I also own 2 Rangers. I use them on location for weddings, onsite corporate work and family portrait sessions. I use the Rangers in studio and occasionally use the Profoto in studio too. Not sure about the others above but I have abused the hell out of my Elis and now putting the B1 to the test of this current wedding season, so far no issues. I've had the Rangers about 6 years, Quadras about 3 and the B1 about 8 months. I really do torture test my gear... on site, beach, desert, California Redwoods, etc... Not sure about what PWP is talking about up there as the B1 are still quite new? My B1's are pretty solid and I like the battery because it is usually high off the ground on a boom or stand so it stays nice and dry. I never use ETTL so that wasn't a big draw for me but YMMV.

Of all of them, I still think the Eli Quadras are the best on site for size and utility. I like Profoto modifiers the best, Elis are good but not as beefy as Profoto. I have modified all my brackets to take the weight off the Eli's though.

I've used the Buff's and although nice... not a big fan of the color inconsistency between flashes. Also feel like the mods they have are cheaply made and replaced quite a few umbrellas before giving up on them.

Eli Quadras


Profoto B1


Eli mod...

 

[gjones5252]

Looks like your use is primarily outdoor, no studio portraits, is that correct? What about light stands?

I would like to do more with studio. I have 600ex that work well. But they arent enough light without grouping them together.
I have far to many light stands for not having high quality lights. I bought good ones when i started buying 600ex, even though they were overkill they will now work perfect for this.

 

[Halfrack]

My biggest complaint on the Einsteins is the lack of any handles - as in there is nothing to grab a hold of when adjusting, and I've had a large octobox take a bite out of me because of it.

The HSS of the B1/B2 adds more options if you're looking to balance against the sun, even in manual mode.

Are 2 lights enough, or are you going to want/need to mix in rental stuff later on? If so, the Profoto stuff is just about everywhere.

How many of the 600's do you have? I'd really look at the Phottix Odin + Indra stuff, if for no other reason the ability to leverage your existing speedlights with the studio lights. They're getting into bed with Elinchrom so it'll be fun to see what comes out.

 

[pwp]

@pwp Can you give me recommendations on some modifiers to purchase as a basic starter kit?

E640 Einstein E640 Studio Flash Unit $499.95 ea. 2 $999.90
Submit change qty
then click
VLX/BAG-G* Vagabond Lithium Extreme Cool Grey w/Free VLXBAG $399.95 ea. 2 $799.90
Submit change qty
then click
CC Cyber Commander $179.95 ea. 1 $179.95
Submit change qty
then click
CST CyberSync Trigger Transmitter $59.95 ea. 1 $59.95
Submit change qty
then click
CSXCV CyberSync Transceiver Module $29.95 ea. 2 $59.90
Submit change qty
then click
MAXFT12MMUV Einstein 12MM Flashtube, UV $34.95 ea. 1 $34.95
Submit change qty
then click
OMNI18R OMNI 18-inch Reflector $79.95 ea. 2 $159.90
Submit change qty
then click
PCBBAG Einstein/Alienbee Single Light Carrying Bag $12.95 ea. 2 $25.90

That's a nice looking cart. The mods you choose will be guided by the sort of locations you work in. FWIW I have two each 86 & 64 inch PLM's with the front diffuser, but they're unlikely to be practical for fast moving location work. They're large and slower to set up. If you're working outdoors, be conscious of the fact that the bigger the mod, the bigger area there is for the wind to catch and send your light towards a smash! I chose light stands that have as wide a footprint as possible for stability. The PCB softboxes can have built on speedrings making them bulky for transport, though quick to set up. I often try to light things so they don't look like they've been lit, and find that a high percentage of indoor locations are suitable for bounce flash. No problem with RAW and complete color control. If your location work is fast moving (eg weddings) there's nothing wrong with umbrellas. Shoot-through, white and silver 45 inch or 60 inch umbrellas are light, instant to assemble, small when packed and inexpensive.

You'll want to add two standard dishes to your list. Go for the 8 inch ones. the PCB grids fit these. The PCB barndoors only fit the 7 inch dishes. Doh! So I have both, but day to day, grids are generally more useful.

I bought the Cyber Commander but find I mostly use it in four or six light technical setups. The GUI is one of the worst I have ever seen, but once you get your head around it you'll be fine. It's probably the least important item on your list. I'd leave it off and maybe pick it up at some future date if you see a burning need for it. Good call on the bigger batteries vs the VML's that I have. Spare flash-tube? Yeah why not. Again FWIW in a career spanning decades the only tubes I've ever replaced were on an Elincrom EL500 that I pumped too long and too hard on full-power on a fashion shoot and it blew it's brains out, capacitors and tube. Bang! The other was a Profoto Compact 600 mono which I dropped. Plus a few tubes in 580ex and 580exII pumping them too hard on full power with a gutsy external battery (Quantum Turbo). My own fault in all cases. Newer flashes have heat cutouts to prevent this happening.

Let us know how you go.

-pw

 

[DaveNewton]

I made the decision in the beginning of the summer to go with the B1. It is very expensive but it is so worth the investment. I am a portrait photographer the specializes in high school seniors. I can bring this light with me and shoot in virtually any location and compete with the sun. The Canon transmitter and TTL (including HSS) work beautifully. I often will set-up a pose and fire a shot in TTL with the subject's face filling the frame to establish a base exposure. I then press one little button on the transmitter to go into manual flash mode and lock the last used setting. I can then pull back and include the outdoor scene in the frame with perfect flash exposure on the face. I can do this all in a matter of seconds. No metering or guess work. It makes it possible to work quickly, even when I am by myself with just the senior and a parent. I will also sometimes have mom or dad hold the B1 by the great handle on the back and leave the light stand and sandbag in the car. The weight is not objectionable to most folks and with no cables I know that no one will be tripping over anything. I have made some of my best outdoor portraits ever this past month and my sales reflect that with two wall portraits (20"x30") ordered just last evening; both were lit images and not something that I could have done with a speedlite or Quantum flash I had used in previous years. I have also used the B1 in the studio along side my Speedotrons and Alien Bees. The LED modeling light works great and is completely usable BTW. I have shot entire sessions and only depleted the battery to 50% or so after two hours of use with the modeling lamp on 80% of the time set to proportional output. Outdoors I have yet to use the modeling light.

The investment is substantial; I purchased the One Light Kit which is a single B1 head, battery and charger in a very nice bag (no shoulder strap though); a Canon Air Remote and a 3ft RFI Softbox Octa with a softgrid and a ProFoto speedring. The whole order was about $3K. Again, think portability, speed and ROI. I am making money with this equipment that would not have been made without it. If you are wondering about compatibility with bodies... I have used the Canon TTL with my 1DMkIV, 1DsMkIII and 5DMkII.

I should mention that I also have a Lithium Extreme Cool Grey for my AB's. It has yet to leave the studio. I can't imagine porting AB's again (I have done it in the past and with the original Vagabond Battery) The B1 just makes life so much easier! Buff also sells a speedring adapter that allows attachment of ProFoto heads to Buff Collapsable Softboxes. For about $20 I was able to convert a strip box and my giant rectangular softbox for use with the B1. It worked just great on both.

There is my two cents. I seriously considered the Elinchrom units but decided that the B1 offered more. No regrets. I seldom use two lights outdoors so the one light setup works for me just great. If I really want a second light I can grab the trusty Q-Flash or a AB and VLX but so far I have not done that. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Dave

 

[DaveNewton]

Here is one of the images I produced with the B1 and 3ft Octa. Parents and senior love it!

 

[Ozarker]

I own both... Profoto B1's and the Eli Quadra set before the renaming. I also own 2 Rangers. I use them on location for weddings, onsite corporate work and family portrait sessions. I use the Rangers in studio and occasionally use the Profoto in studio too. Not sure about the others above but I have abused the hell out of my Elis and now putting the B1 to the test of this current wedding season, so far no issues. I've had the Rangers about 6 years, Quadras about 3 and the B1 about 8 months. I really do torture test my gear... on site, beach, desert, California Redwoods, etc... Not sure about what PWP is talking about up there as the B1 are still quite new? My B1's are pretty solid and I like the battery because it is usually high off the ground on a boom or stand so it stays nice and dry. I never use ETTL so that wasn't a big draw for me but YMMV.

Of all of them, I still think the Eli Quadras are the best on site for size and utility. I like Profoto modifiers the best, Elis are good but not as beefy as Profoto. I have modified all my brackets to take the weight off the Eli's though.

I've used the Buff's and although nice... not a big fan of the color inconsistency between flashes. Also feel like the mods they have are cheaply made and replaced quite a few umbrellas before giving up on them.

Eli Quadras


Profoto B1


Eli mod...

Always great advice!

 

[krautland]

I have the B1 location kit (two strobes). The only downside is that I now want a third. Other than that, the units are rock solid. The batteries last long and charge quickly, nothing wiggles or seems otherwise cheap and 500W is plenty powerful for me. I love the 1/8000th max shutter speed, which I used to shoot bike racers blasting by. Recycle times are good. The only issue with profoto you should know about is that if you want hard light their beauty dishes suck. I am the kind of guy who would never put a sock on a dish and I sometimes find myself putting tinfoil inside the dishes to get that Broncolor dish look.

But yeah, bottom line: I love the B1 and the backpack it came in. zero issues. Had them for about eight months, so the B2 obviously came out after I made my choice but 250W is not what I desire anyway.

Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?

 

[Halfrack]

Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?

So the 580ex doesn't have an optical slave, but adding one is cheap
http://flashzebra.com/opticalslaves/index.shtml

If you want TTL or HSS, you're better off adding that 3rd B1, as the Air system doesn't integrate with speedlights.

 

[Pookie]

Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?

So the 580ex doesn't have an optical slave, but adding one is cheap
http://flashzebra.com/opticalslaves/index.shtml

If you want TTL or HSS, you're better off adding that 3rd B1, as the Air system doesn't integrate with speedlights.

In manual... I do this all the time with optical triggers. Cheap and with either Eli's or Profoto I can put speedlites in the mix quite easily. Again, I don't use ETTL or HSS that often, If I do I can hookup PW to trigger.

 

[krautland]

Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?

So the 580ex doesn't have an optical slave, but adding one is cheap
http://flashzebra.com/opticalslaves/index.shtml

If you want TTL or HSS, you're better off adding that 3rd B1, as the Air system doesn't integrate with speedlights.

intriguing, thank you. the three-light setups I am thinking about would all be shot in manual without TTL or HSS, so that's not a problem. really the reason I ask is that the 580ex II and two B1's are here and ready to go whereas a third B1 would have to be bought.

 

[CreationHeart]

Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?

So the 580ex doesn't have an optical slave, but adding one is cheap
http://flashzebra.com/opticalslaves/index.shtml

If you want TTL or HSS, you're better off adding that 3rd B1, as the Air system doesn't integrate with speedlights.

intriguing, thank you. the three-light setups I am thinking about would all be shot in manual without TTL or HSS, so that's not a problem. really the reason I ask is that the 580ex II and two B1's are here and ready to go whereas a third B1 would have to be bought.

the B1 location kit is really nice. I bought the 1 light only then added a second one and the backpack! Agree I also want a 3rd and 4th one but hope Profoto will come out with different solution other than the low power B2. Problem with the 3rd B1 is its more difficult to transport it since the backpack only fits two. haha.

 

[krautland]

Problem with the 3rd B1 is its more difficult to transport it since the backpack only fits two. haha.

I can help you there: the logistics manager and production manager rolling suitcases from think tank are very nice for this:

https://www.thinktankphoto.com/collections/manager-series/products/production-manager-40
https://www.thinktankphoto.com/collections/manager-series/products/logistics-manager-30

 

[arthurbikemad]

Got a ELB400 action kit, very impressed, super light weight for two head system, lots of power, quality of light is supurb, wanted to go profoto but too hard to lug two around in a backpack for me, plus the other gear.

 

[CSD]

One other aspect about Elinchrom with the new HS trigger and head (and some older heads) you can get Hi-Sync speeds up to 1/8000th. It's just been released in the last few weeks. A great feature of this trigger is that you can now see the power ratio's of the newer Skyport lights (Gen 2 or newer) which saves a lot of guesswork as to what each pack or studio light (ELC lights only) is at.

I heavily use the Elinchrom Quadra's; I have a Gen 2 and a Quadra Hybrid for fashion and lifestyle photography and has survived the Scottish weather despite not being water sealed. I also like the modifiers such as the Deep Octa which can give a close look to a beauty dish and is also fast to set up and tear down. I've rarely ever had to change out the batteries on location, even the older one has about 150 shots at full power but I rarely use the A channel so can get far more than that.

When it comes down to Profoto Vs Elinchrom you have to weigh up what modifiers you want to use, what subjects/photography you want to cover and so on. It's always about the eco-system, and if you want to use studio lights rather than packs Elinchrom has the ELC series now.

An example of what I did with the Deep Octa and the Quadra pack:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/csd_images/6093307880/