Radio in New Canon Flashes? [CR2]

[Lawliet]

Use the outdated BP-511's we all have from our older cameras and have several laying around, and make the flashes compatible with those batteries, or even the new batteries for the 7D/5D mII.

The reason I leave the 1D4 at home at longer trips is the logistics mess you describe.
Eneloops power everything from flashlights to GPS and hand radios to all kinds of photography equipment across brands- one type of charger, one pool of cells.

We could talk about CR123/18650 dual purpose slots, but such expensive batteries with such a limited scope?

 

[awinphoto]

Use the outdated BP-511's we all have from our older cameras and have several laying around, and make the flashes compatible with those batteries, or even the new batteries for the 7D/5D mII.

The reason I leave the 1D4 at home at longer trips is the logistics mess you describe.
Eneloops power everything from flashlights to GPS and hand radios to all kinds of photography equipment across brands- one type of charger, one pool of cells.

We could talk about CR123/18650 dual purpose slots, but such expensive batteries with such a limited scope?

I know I dont speak for everybody, but I just dont really see a downside for canon to produce and provide a battery with at least their top of the line flash unit that can be used with their cameras. A flash is an accessory and part of bigger system. The average professional I would guesstimate would have 2-3 spare batteries, especially if they shoot alot, and most, while on location, typically carries their charger with them if needed. If you're at a wedding and you run out of AA's, you have to either stop using flash, have your assistant run to 7-11 to grab more, or improvise. If you use the same batteries your camera use, pop in a spare battery and put the other one on charge if available. I think if they find ways to simplify and unite consumables such as batteries it would be more convenient in the long run and better in every regard.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I know I dont speak for everybody, but I just dont really see a downside for canon to produce and provide a battery with at least their top of the line flash unit that can be used with their cameras. A flash is an accessory and part of bigger system...I think if they find ways to simplify and unite consumables such as batteries it would be more convenient in the long run and better in every regard.

Agreed. I like the fact that both my 5DII and my 7D use the same battery, and it would be great if that battery would power a flash, too. But it's only viable IF they keep the same battery through many product updates. I really can't wait for induction charging to become a practical reality - one charging pad that you just set your devices or batteries on to charge. As it is, I've got about 8 different chargers just for camera/video gear...

 

[t.linn]

I'm a little surprised by the moderate levels of enthusiam for this potential breakthrough in flash photography. The idea of being able to control flashes remotely without spending hundreds of dollars in additional gear *per flash* plus the loss of high speed sync, etc., is HUGE for me. People have been asking for this forever. I'm surprised it has taken so long for someone to do it.

This rumor may be CR2 but remember that it is undisputed that Canon filed a patent last year for wireless flash control using ZigBee. (It was mentioned on this site.) I don't think there's any reason to think that the protocol will be anything other than this.

I can't' wait!!!

 

[Admin US West]

To me, for what I use my flashes for, what I would like to see are universal canon rechargeable batteries for the flashes... Use the outdated BP-511's we all have from our older cameras and have several laying around, and make the flashes compatible with those batteries, or even the new batteries for the 7D/5D mII. It would encourage the purchase of more of THEIR BATTERIES, be rechargeable, and encourage their branding than plunking $10-15 on a new pack of AA's every few shoots... That would be a change I would upgrade my flashes for.

The reason we do not see BP-511 LI-on batteries being used with the higher powered flash units has to do with their current output characteristics. They just can't handle the high current level it takes to run a high powered flash. They are ok for the on-camera flashes which charge slowly, but if you want to have high current, you would need multiple lithium-ion batteries in parallel. The relatively high internal resistance is the issue. At low currents, it is a non problem, but at large currents it is a big issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

Internal resistance

The internal resistance of standard (Cobalt) lithium-ion batteries is high compared to both other rechargeable chemistries such as nickel-metal hydride and nickel-cadmium, and LiFePO4 and lithium-polymer cells.[43] Internal resistance increases with both cycling and age.[39][44][45] Rising internal resistance causes the voltage at the terminals to drop under load, which reduces the maximum current draw. Eventually increasing resistance means that the battery can no longer operate for an adequate period.

 

[Lawliet]

I think if they find ways to simplify and unite consumables such as batteries it would be more convenient in the long run and better in every regard.

We have that: AA, 18650. The LiFe 18650 even deliver serious current, more power from a single cell then those external hvppacks for the 580EXII.
The 5DII/7D uses a different battery then the 1D4, and what are the chances that any 3rd party devices will use one of those batteries? And thats only for single brand shooters, also use Nikon and you end up with 5 or 6 additional different battery types you can't swap among devices and can't even buy next door if you run out of rechargeables, and even with a charger it takes at least 3x times as long then recharging a set of AAs that stores the same power.

And lets not talk about the fights over power outlets on a safari that all those chargers cause.

 

[ronderick]

Agreed. I like the fact that both my 5DII and my 7D use the same battery, and it would be great if that battery would power a flash, too. But it's only viable IF they keep the same battery through many product updates. I really can't wait for induction charging to become a practical reality - one charging pad that you just set your devices or batteries on to charge. As it is, I've got about 8 different chargers just for camera/video gear...

Yeah, I think that's a smart move on the part of Canon to use the same type of batteries for the two cameras. Again, with the planned Camera cross media dock somewhere down the line, it would be nice to eliminate the need for keep different kinds of chargers handy (at least for one's home).

What's even better - a portable version of the charging dock (OK, I might be getting a bit into the sci-fi realm here...)

 

[awinphoto]

I think if they find ways to simplify and unite consumables such as batteries it would be more convenient in the long run and better in every regard.

We have that: AA, 18650. The LiFe 18650 even deliver serious current, more power from a single cell then those external hvppacks for the 580EXII.
The 5DII/7D uses a different battery then the 1D4, and what are the chances that any 3rd party devices will use one of those batteries? And thats only for single brand shooters, also use Nikon and you end up with 5 or 6 additional different battery types you can't swap among devices and can't even buy next door if you run out of rechargeables, and even with a charger it takes at least 3x times as long then recharging a set of AAs that stores the same power.

And lets not talk about the fights over power outlets on a safari that all those chargers cause.

If what you say is correct and the current batteries and technology couldn't use the current batch of batteries for flashes due to power, I think it would be Canon's best interest to produce a battery that could be cross platform compatible or at least create a rechargeable battery that could be charged in the current canon chargers. A large high capacity and high voltage battery can be created, if metz can, canon can. There are a lot of things I would LOVE to have on flashed but after moving from metz to canon, the AA thing has slowly began to irk me. =) Just a personal quirk

 

[Stuart]

I'm a little surprised by the moderate levels of enthusiam for this potential breakthrough in flash photography. The idea of being able to control flashes remotely without spending hundreds of dollars in additional gear *per flash* plus the loss of high speed sync, etc., is HUGE for me. People have been asking for this forever. I'm surprised it has taken so long for someone to do it.

This rumor may be CR2 but remember that it is undisputed that Canon filed a patent last year for wireless flash control using ZigBee. (It was mentioned on this site.) I don't think there's any reason to think that the protocol will be anything other than this.

I can't' wait!!!

+1 this is huge!
If canon start allowing Wireless comms in thier equipment, then is can get an IP address, be remote controlled, be wireless tethered, maybe even shoot in 3D with 2 camera's acting totether.

 

[anthony11]

are multiband radio's like you get in mobile phones to work in many locations - or mayebe even plug-in radio card's for different regions.

Other products manage to do the former, but Canon doesn't have much of a history of doing the right thing for the consumer.

The big question for me is why, in 2011, is optical triggering still the norm? It seems like a technology from the 20's or something.

 

[bvukich]

If it does use ZigBee, or any other open RF communications standard, it will be a hackers playground; which means the potential for all kinds of cool 3rd party and homebrew toys.

The only problem I see with ZigBee is there are three different frequency bands specified. 2.4 GHz worldwide, 915 MHz Americas and 868 MHz Europe. It would probably make sense to break spec and just use 2.4GHz in all regulatory domains, despite the advantages of the lower frequencies available in US/EU.

 

[DJL329]

Really! Canon needs to deliver on what they promised us in the last nine months. Super tele refresh. And the fisheye zoom. And don't forget the 200-400 f/4 1.4x!!

Bodies can't come soon enough for many of us, but we'll just have to wait.

Other new lenses can't come soon enough, but I have a hunch I'll be on this site repeating myself for the next few years on the last two especially (24-70 2.8 IS, 14-24 2.8, 85 1.4 IS).

Canon stated the 200-400mm f/4 w/1.4x was a prototype, meaning it is not something about to be released. As for the announced lenses, they are delayed (like all Canon and Nikon products made in Japan), because of the consequences of the quake and tsunami.

 

[Lawliet]

A large high capacity and high voltage battery can be created, if metz can, canon can. There are a lot of things I would LOVE to have on flashed but after moving from metz to canon, the AA thing has slowly began to irk me.

Have you ever disassembled one? Its a bunch of AAs soldered together to prevent easy replacement or proper cell maintainance. Guess why my large Metz flashes got connectors for RC racing packs - approximatly three times the endurance, easier management and much faster charging at a fraction of the costs.
The joys and benefits of proprietary batteries.

And for the LP-E6 and its counterparts- paying 10 times the price of the actual cells only to loose the ability to use them across brands and even devices...sounds like a bad deal to me.

 

[awinphoto]

A large high capacity and high voltage battery can be created, if metz can, canon can. There are a lot of things I would LOVE to have on flashed but after moving from metz to canon, the AA thing has slowly began to irk me.

Have you ever disassembled one? Its a bunch of AAs soldered together to prevent easy replacement or proper cell maintainance. Guess why my large Metz flashes got connectors for RC racing packs - approximatly three times the endurance, easier management and much faster charging at a fraction of the costs.
The joys and benefits of proprietary batteries.

And for the LP-E6 and its counterparts- paying 10 times the price of the actual cells only to loose the ability to use them across brands and even devices...sounds like a bad deal to me.

No, i never had the inclination to disassemble a rechargeable battery, I always left that to people who knows what the heck they are doing. If you say they are AA's soldered together, I would have to take you word, however with that said... In the days of film cameras, they ALL had batteries that were consumable... They weren't AA, they were a proprietary camera battery (unless you had the AA power booster)... Those batteries, while not as easy to find as AA's, were common place, but there was enough grumbling with those that one of the big selling points of the early digital cameras, the D30, D60, 10D... included rechargeable batteries... they started selling like hot cakes... (that and the lure of digital and no film)...

Flashes really haven't evolved too much from the film days... The TTL technology advanced, slightly, and the power was increased by a handful of meters, woo hoo... I just hope that along with the evolution and the next advancements in flash technology, with the addition of other features and so forth, that this is one of them. If it is, I, personally, would trade my flashes so i can buy the new flashes in a heartbeat.

 

[unfocused]

Flashes really haven't evolved too much from the film days

I guess that depends on your age and perspective. In my time I've seen flashes evolve much more than cameras.

I'm not discounting the changes that digital cameras have brought, but the basics of how it all works haven't changed that much. We're recording on memory cards instead of film and we're getting instant feedback and more control, but from my perspective, that all pales in comparison to what I can do with strobes today.

Try shooting any event with a potato masher strobe when you have to estimate distances, calculate a guide number, wait forever for recycle time, keep from accidentally moving the shutter speed dial above 1/60th of a second, hope that the batteries last at least through the first quarter of the event and pray that the worthless little cord connecting the camera to the strobe is still working an hour after you've checked it out and packed up for the assignment (hint: it probably won't be working). Forget about syncing more than one unit or doing anything else remotely creative with a strobe, unless you spend hundreds or even thousands more on slaves, flash meters, Polaroid backs, etc. etc. And, of course, you really won't know if it all worked until it's too late, when you develop the film.

I can't believe how fantastic today's strobes are. The fact that for less than the cost of a moderately priced "L" lens, I can buy a setup that lets me trigger multiple strobes and, through the camera, adjust the output levels, balance ambient light with the strobes and never once have to guess how many feet or meters I am from the subject makes me a very happy camper.