Rented a D600

[friedmud]

Just an update... I just sold my Canon 70-200 f/4L IS to a friend.

This camera was _phenomenal_ to shoot with. The picture quality is unbelievably good in every way (noise, color, DR, metering, AF).

It is good enough to switch... and that's what I'm now in the process of doing.

I haven't posted any full-res picture anywhere yet... but here is one I put on 500px:

http://500px.com/photo/14938023

 

[friedmud]

(I made this post to another thread around here... but thought I should archive it here for anyone reading along)

For anyone that is thinking about switching I highly recommend renting a D600 like I did. At LensRentals it was ~$200 to rent it with a 24-70 f/2.8G for 5 days. During that time I was able to find out if I could live with the ergonomics issues (I definitely can... it won't ever be as good as my 7D in ergonomics.... but the tradeoff is worth it) and put it through its paces in a variety of environments.

What did I find out? That the D600 is a _tool_. What I mean by that is that by the end of my rental period I trusted the D600 as much as I do a hammer or a saw. _It_ takes care of capture the photo... _I_ take care of choosing the photo I want to capture. Yes, even in that short amount of time I came to just trust the D600. The metering is so spot on I didn't have to worry about it. The Auto-ISO is unbelievably good (since you can actually set limits on things like shutter speeds and min/max ISO!). The AF is spot on (although I do lament having to focus and recompose a bit... I got used to not needing to do that on my 7D).

It all adds up to a package where even though the ergonomics are a bit off... it simply doesn't matter because you don't interact with this camera as much as with a Canon... you simply set a bunch of sensible limits and then let the camera do its thing and you come out on the other side with incredible photos.

Don't take my word for it - go rent it yourself and find out!

 

[weekendshooter]

What did I find out? That the D600 is a _tool_. What I mean by that is that by the end of my rental period I trusted the D600 as much as I do a hammer or a saw. _It_ takes care of capture the photo... _I_ take care of choosing the photo I want to capture. Yes, even in that short amount of time I came to just trust the D600. The metering is so spot on I didn't have to worry about it. The Auto-ISO is unbelievably good (since you can actually set limits on things like shutter speeds and min/max ISO!). The AF is spot on (although I do lament having to focus and recompose a bit... I got used to not needing to do that on my 7D).

It all adds up to a package where even though the ergonomics are a bit off... it simply doesn't matter because you don't interact with this camera as much as with a Canon... you simply set a bunch of sensible limits and then let the camera do its thing and you come out on the other side with incredible photos.

I fully agree with this assessment - this is exactly how I use my D700. I have 100% confidence in the camera being able to meter and AF in no time at all; this combined with the tremendous ISO performance means I can concentrate on getting the shot without worrying too much about what the camera is doing.

You should definitely think about renting a 14-24 next; I had one for a week and it's absolutely mindblowing. Glad to hear you had a positive Nikon experience!

 

[friedmud]

I fully agree with this assessment - this is exactly how I use my D700. I have 100% confidence in the camera being able to meter and AF in no time at all; this combined with the tremendous ISO performance means I can concentrate on getting the shot without worrying too much about what the camera is doing.

You should definitely think about renting a 14-24 next; I had one for a week and it's absolutely mindblowing. Glad to hear you had a positive Nikon experience!

I will get a 14-24 eventually (it's one of the reasons to switch!) and I definitely will rent it for my next photography trip. It is _damn_ expensive though... so it's going to be a bit before I can think about buying one...

Thanks again for weeding through my rant to give me some real and good advice on using this camera! I can honestly say that had I seen a rant like that I wouldn't have responded with insightful advice ;-)

 

[friedmud]

Hey - let me ask another question: What is your favorite Nikon forum?

I tried Nikonrumors.com.... but I don't really like it (doesn't have the same community feel as canonrumors and the site is not as well put together). Is there a good Nikon community somewhere?

Thanks!

 

[tron]

http://500px.com/photo/14938023

This is cheating! Did you get this nice place as a kit with your camera ?

 

[friedmud]

http://500px.com/photo/14938023

This is cheating! Did you get this nice place as a kit with your camera ?

lol! It didn't come with my camera... but it _DID_ come with a job upgrade I took a few years ago ;-)

Southeast Idaho is a great place to live as a hobbyist landscaper ;-)

 

[tron]

Hmm, I read the info. You used a graduate ND filter which in my opinion is THE DR tool (in cases where it can be applied of course). Before reading the details I thought that you had gotten this image straight from the camera! But still this does not change anything. Good practice (grad ND in your case) must always accompany good gear.

 

[friedmud]

Well... it is "straight" from the camera (with just a light bit of PP in Lightroom 3 like I mentioned)... but yes, with an ND Grad.

What's funny is that when that guy asked if I had used a filter I started typing "no"... but then I remember that I really had. It's such a part of my landscape workflow that I don't even think about it ;-)

But yeah... I'm not one of those guys that is expecting miracles from my gear! Beyond a 2 stop (0.6) Lee soft ND grad it was also shot on a sturdy tripod, ISO 100, Av mode, 3 second shutter delay (mirror lockup), manual focusing using zoomed Live View at feature that approximated the hyperfocal distance (I estimate the distance, pick a feature at about that distance then manually focus on that feature).

One of the things that's been hard for me with my 7D is that I feel like sometimes I do everything right technique-wise and the camera just gets it wrong (too much noise, over/under exposed, flat color). Of course, exposure is partly my fault... but I've never been able to fully trust the exposure on the 7D.

While we're on the subject... I LOVE the fact that on the D600 I can do "Full scene average" metering. When I'm shooting landscapes I rarely have the subject in the middle... why do I want "center weighted average" metering? I really want the whole scene to be exposed as well as possible with possible over/under exposure dialed in by me for desired effect. I can do that on the D600.... but not on a 5DMk3...

 

[Positron]

Great to know. I've been thinking of getting a D600 once I have a paycheck, and expected the difference in control, but good to know that unfamiliarity with the interface isn't incompatible with getting the shot.

 

[Cali_PH]

But yeah... I'm not one of those guys that is expecting miracles from my gear! Beyond a 2 stop (0.6) Lee soft ND grad it was also shot on a sturdy tripod, ISO 100, Av mode, 3 second shutter delay (mirror lockup), manual focusing using zoomed Live View at feature that approximated the hyperfocal distance (I estimate the distance, pick a feature at about that distance then manually focus on that feature).

How did you find the Live View for manual focusing? I rented a D800 for some landscape, and found the Live View as bad as the reports have said, which I had read was due to it being an interpolated display. Definitely not as nice as the 5DmkIII or my 60D, but I think it does zoom in more. I've been wondering if the D600 Live View was the same or not.

And I sympathize with your problems with the ergonomics, I found myself constantly stumbling through the buttons and menus too. Oh, and don't get me started on changing lenses! ;D

 

[sweetcancer]

I bought a nikon D600 last week and so far i just love it! I mean, sure the control layout is way different from my old 5D mark II that i sold, and it's definitely not how I would have designed it. I really miss the big control wheel on the back. BUT, once you get a little familiar with it, it really isn't a dealbreaker at all. I shot my friends kids birthday party the day before yesterday (with the nikkor 28mm 1.8G lens), and I already felt comfortable with the D600. I am loving everything that comes out of that camera! (although auto white balance gets it wrong sometimes in tricky lighting, but so did my 5dII. And I haven't tried all the AWB functions yet.)

Anyway, I still am coming back to canon once I have enough money (and when canon starts making good sensors) for a good canon camera and all the L lenses I desire. I then plan on shooting both.

 

[friedmud]

Great to know. I've been thinking of getting a D600 once I have a paycheck, and expected the difference in control, but good to know that unfamiliarity with the interface isn't incompatible with getting the shot.

It definitely isn't. Mostly a small annoyance. One thing to keep in mind is that MANY pros "prefer" Nikon ergonomics (probably because they don't know any better! ;-). Either way it shows that it's not "unusable" in any way shape or form... just "different" (where "different" stands for "somewhat worse" ;-)

Like I mentioned though, once you get the camera set up, especially setting up U1 and U2 to be common use cases for you... which for me were Landscape and Fast Action, and getting sensible limits set on the auto ISO system (which is not possible with Canon cameras in this same price range) you don't have to interact with the camera all that much.

I gotta say... the biggest thing I miss is the Orientation Sensitive AF. It just works so damn well on my 7D. Even by the end of the weekend though... when I was getting ready to take a portrait shot my thumb would go to the direction pad and start moving the AF point toward what would be the upper part of the scene (If I was in a single AF point mode... which I learned isn't as necessary). Basically, I just fell back to old habits before I had a camera that did this kind of stuff for me...

BUT... all of that is secondary to how well this camera takes photos. The shutter button is the best button on the camera! Both, the way it works and what it accomplishes ;-)

 

[friedmud]

How did you find the Live View for manual focusing? I rented a D800 for some landscape, and found the Live View as bad as the reports have said, which I had read was due to it being an interpolated display. Definitely not as nice as the 5DmkIII or my 60D, but I think it does zoom in more. I've been wondering if the D600 Live View was the same or not.

And I sympathize with your problems with the ergonomics, I found myself constantly stumbling through the buttons and menus too. Oh, and don't get me started on changing lenses! ;D

Hmmm... can't say that I noticed anything really wrong with Live View for manual focusing. After zooming in past a certain point the framerate drops, which is odd... but doesn't really affect the slow precise focusing I'm doing on a tripod.

I really like that I _can_ zoom in further than on my 7D.

I suspect that it is a personal thing though... I bet the Live View isn't much different on the D600 than it is on the D800 (but I don't personally know).

Can you explain more about what was off for you? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention...

 

[friedmud]

I bought a nikon D600 last week and so far i just love it! I mean, sure the control layout is way different from my old 5D mark II that i sold, and it's definitely not how I would have designed it. I really miss the big control wheel on the back. BUT, once you get a little familiar with it, it really isn't a dealbreaker at all. I shot my friends kids birthday party the day before yesterday (with the nikkor 28mm 1.8G lens), and I already felt comfortable with the D600. I am loving everything that comes out of that camera! (although auto white balance gets it wrong sometimes in tricky lighting, but so did my 5dII. And I haven't tried all the AWB functions yet.)

Anyway, I still am coming back to canon once I have enough money (and when canon starts making good sensors) for a good canon camera and all the L lenses I desire. I then plan on shooting both.

Congrats on the camera! I'm still in the process of selling my gear... hopefully mine isn't far off!

 

[Aglet]

@Friedmud
Glad another person with an open mind tried the competition and discovered it's worthwhile.

I too am still caught in the Canon user interface paradigm and sometimes wish my D800's controls were easier to locate at times. More time spent with it and it's becoming familiar.

And I can trust the camera to be an excellent imaging tool that provides me with raw files that have far more adjustment latitude in post than anything I've ever shot with a Canon label on it.

Yup, more of my Canon gear is on Kijiji this weekend.

Once I sell some if it I'll be off to my local shop to see if I like the lighter weight and simpler control layout of the D600 better than the full-buffet of mechanical controls on the D800. I don't normally need much for customizable options, just the basics and killer raw IQ. And I won't always need the higher resolution and would occasionally prefer the slightly better SNR of the D600 over the D800 for low light work.

I DO miss the incredibly good live-view performance of my 5D2 for manual focusing in low light.
The D800 is disappointingly noisy in this aspect altho I found I can trust the focus rangefinder function to be very precise in most lighting conditions with any focus point i select so I can still MF with confidence.

Next I need to get used to Nikon flashes... They seem simpler.

 

[Cali_PH]

Hmmm... can't say that I noticed anything really wrong with Live View for manual focusing. After zooming in past a certain point the framerate drops, which is odd... but doesn't really affect the slow precise focusing I'm doing on a tripod.

I really like that I _can_ zoom in further than on my 7D.

I suspect that it is a personal thing though... I bet the Live View isn't much different on the D600 than it is on the D800 (but I don't personally know).

Can you explain more about what was off for you? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention...

I would describe the issue as having more 'noise' or the image being 'muddy/blotchy.' Here's a video on youtube that compares the D800 vs. the 5DmkIII, which is exactly what I experienced. I'm guessing part of the issue is that it zooms in more than the Canon. I was still able to manually focus with it, but I didn't trust it at the maximum zoom setting.

I'm now regretting not renting a D600 for my trip starting this Saturday...I need to try that camera out sometime.

 

[friedmud]

@Friedmud
Glad another person with an open mind tried the competition and discovered it's worthwhile.

Thanks - it's amazing how many people will bash the brand they don't use on a forum and never try it. With all of the vitriole surrounding the D600 and with the 6D not looking stellar I thought it was time to try it out.

I too am still caught in the Canon user interface paradigm and sometimes wish my D800's controls were easier to locate at times. More time spent with it and it's becoming familiar.

Before I rented the D600 I used it and a D800 in a local shop... I definitely liked the D600 controls more. D800 were even further from what I'm used to.

I DO miss the incredibly good live-view performance of my 5D2 for manual focusing in low light.
The D800 is disappointingly noisy in this aspect altho I found I can trust the focus rangefinder function to be very precise in most lighting conditions with any focus point i select so I can still MF with confidence.

Hmmm - you're the second one to mention that - seems like I overlooked something....

 

[weekendshooter]

friedmud, if you can get that out of the 24-70 at 24, then I can't wait to see what you can do with a 14-24!

In some ways I'm sad that I didn't wait for the D600 for the 24mp sensor, but I think I would have lost interest in photography if I didn't have my D700 with me on the myriad of trips that I took this summer, and now I have a tank of a camera that will last ages.

And funny that you said that you wouldn't have waded through such a rant to give advice; I was the same way when I first got my D700 - I almost wanted to return it and keep shooting with my rebel but I stuck with it and got used to the weight and controls and now I'm 100% in love.

I think the 14-24 is essential for your style, but you should also check out the f/1.8G primes - Nikon has really outdone themselves with how good these are for the price. The 85 in particular is tremendous - my favorite portrait lens for sure, and only $500!

 

[weekendshooter]

Hey - let me ask another question: What is your favorite Nikon forum?

I tried Nikonrumors.com.... but I don't really like it (doesn't have the same community feel as canonrumors and the site is not as well put together). Is there a good Nikon community somewhere?

Thanks!

I mainly read CR and FredMiranda; I hear NikonCafe is good but I haven't gotten around to reading it myself.

NikonRumors is terrible; definitely stay away from those forums. They have maybe 2-3 active members and none of them know what they're doing. I still read and post around here because of how much better the forums are here, so that gives you an idea of how bad the NR forums are.

Edit: just checked out NikonCafe, and it doesn't look like there are as many people posting there as there are on FredMiranda, so I would just stick to that. Check out the Nikon Manual Focus thread on FM; it has enough content to be its own forum! All of their genre forums are fantastic (landscape, sports, etc); many well-known pros post there, and it's great to be able to talk to them. A few of them even shoot Nikon! check out Trenchmonkey's posts for maximum envy ;D