The Emperor Bans Noisy Mirrors

Aglet

EOS 7D Mark II
Feb 26, 2012
1,692
9
AB
#21
As for those news events, where hordes of journalists crowding the speaker with oversized FF rigs clattering away in repetitive bursts so loudly you can barely hear what's being said... I certainly look forward to when they no longer show up with that kind of gear.
FWIW, the Sony's shutters make quite a harsh noise too.
 
Jul 6, 2017
781
43
Davidson, NC
#22
I may have mentioned in another thread that a few weeks ago I was at a press conference where a photographer was shooting bursts of photos. Why someone would want or need to do that in photographing a speaker standing behind a podium is beyond me. It sounded loud from 20 or 30 feet away.

As for bucking broncos, I guess it might spook them if cameras made clicks. They are such skittish creatures, and rodeos are so quiet and sedate.
 

sdz

EOS M50
Sep 13, 2016
83
27
Pittsburgh, PA
#23
A reporter who has been trained to analyze business trends might be unskilled with a camera but more objective discussing the industry.
Hmmm, let's try an experiment. Let's replace camera with scalpel and stethoscope and industry with medical practice. How confident does the result make you?

Ignorance does not entail objectivity.
 
Likes: stevelee

3kramd5

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,552
111
#24
As for those news events, where hordes of journalists crowding the speaker with oversized FF rigs clattering away in repetitive bursts so loudly you can barely hear what's being said... I certainly look forward to when they no longer show up with that kind of gear.
FWIW, the Sony's shutters make quite a harsh noise too.
I’ve never understood why press corp photographers at these types of events machine gun the speaker. It’s not like the height of action in a sporting event or a diving peregrine. How many pictures of Barack Obama and Sarah Sanders between expressions and mid word do we really need?
 
Likes: stevelee
Dec 6, 2016
149
38
#25
I’ve never understood why press corp photographers at these types of events machine gun the speaker. It’s not like the height of action in a sporting event or a diving peregrine. How many pictures of Barack Obama and Sarah Sanders between expressions and mid word do we really need?
Ah. But if you specifically want a photo that makes someone look a s noble and refined as possible you need the exact split second of correct facial expression. Or in the case of Trump the exact split second of facial expression that will make him look stupid or evil. Photography can be one of the most dishonest or honest forms of journalism there is all based on which frame is chosen to convey a point.
 
Likes: HankMD

3kramd5

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,552
111
#26
Ah. But if you specifically want a photo that makes someone look a s noble and refined as possible you need the exact split second of correct facial expression. Or in the case of Trump the exact split second of facial expression that will make him look stupid or evil. Photography can be one of the most dishonest or honest forms of journalism there is all based on which frame is chosen to convey a point.
Of course but it still seems silly, just like the contrived photo with the light behind a lawmaker’s head to look like a halo.

Also, they time their photos to some substantial bit of dialog, like it matters in a still photo what was being said at that moment.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,552
111
#28
It’s hard to call “spray and pray” and then going home and sorting through 5000 stills for a random expression “art.”

Might as well turn your back to a canvas and fling paint at it over your shoulder.
 
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Aug 9, 2018
38
36
#31
If silence is so important why not just shoot the dslr in Liveview mode ? This is what I do at weddings where some vicars (priests) only allow photography during the ceremony if it's silent. No one can hear the very faint "slick" of the closing shutter when using electronic first curtain. As you're inside there is no issue with being able to view the rear lcd.

This so much the fallacy of those that promote an inevitable "mirrorless 'revolution". They always conveniently forget that a modern dslr can shoot in mirrorless mode anyway.
Absolutely right!
And what about a Leica M?
Anyway, even a Canon DSLR in silent mode is far from being loud, according to my experience in churches and museums...
Never heard a complaint.
 
Aug 11, 2016
109
6
#32
Of course but it still seems silly, just like the contrived photo with the light behind a lawmaker’s head to look like a halo.

Also, they time their photos to some substantial bit of dialog, like it matters in a still photo what was being said at that moment.
The reason why the pros do this is exactly what was said before by Aussie Shooter. I do the same thing. Getting the best expression or the intended expression is not as simple as just clicking one or two exposures during quiet moments. You wait until the speaker is making a point or statement and you capture a few sequences to be able to choose which one the client may want in post. I've run into speakers that have a "less than ideal" expression most of the time, and to be able to pick one or two images which actually matches his/her intended sentiment is important.

Since the E-M1 and now Sony, I simply shoot in e-shutter mode. I don't need 4K or 8K video mode @ 24fps to achieve that, A silent e-shutter camera does just fine which also allows me the use of the full 24MP or 42MP sensor of my camera.
 
Jul 6, 2017
781
43
Davidson, NC
#33
Nope. The shutter speed you need for effective video would be too slow.
I haven't tried it, but maybe one could set a high shutter speed manually. The video would look crappy, but if you just want the frame grabs, that might work OK. I think it is overkill for the problem, and other solutions could work better.

A neighbor had some video that he shot at a ski resort, panning across almost a 180° sweep. He asked me to make him a panorama out of it, and I said I'd try. I imported a chunk of it into Photoshop and had it save it as stills, frame by frame. I went through them and chose some to stitch together. The result was surprisingly good. I printed it on 13" wide roll paper and maybe almost five feet long. He had it framed, and it hangs on a wall at his summer home in the mountains. He wanted neighbors there who are in just for the summer to see what they are missing.
 

Aglet

EOS 7D Mark II
Feb 26, 2012
1,692
9
AB
#34
Nope. The shutter speed you need for effective video would be too slow.
It was just posted above so I guess I'm just kind of repeating it in a way.
Video does not suffer slow shutter speeds, you can set frame exposure as fast as you want within the limits of ISO sensitivity and available light and aperture.
Smooth video is often shot by using shutter speeds a bit on the slower side to allow some motion blur to help movement look less unnatural in playback otherwise some viewers may perceive a sort of stuttery effect.... Too-fast video shutter speed can also be used effectively in some shots like the fast moving dancers in this old music video https://youtu.be/mqORyaNpiNk?t=90 which, unfortunately, I can no longer find a decent version of online. I remember when initially seeing it how overly crisp the movement was compared to a "normally-shot' video.

Shoot 4k-8k with a 1/250s or faster per frame shutter and high recording bitrate and you would have usable results and the versatility of video or still-grabs for some situations.

e-shutter bursts with current ML like the EM1v2 are excellent too
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,047
75
118
#35
I’ve never understood why press corp photographers at these types of events machine gun the speaker. It’s not like the height of action in a sporting event or a diving peregrine. How many pictures of Barack Obama and Sarah Sanders between expressions and mid word do we really need?
Because it is a very competitive industry and nuance and inflection are everything, particularly when you are looking for a visual representation to illustrate a specific point of view or bias.

Is that single image in a sequence of somebody waving with a straight arm able to imply a Nazi salute for a story about some right wing organization? If it could it could be used by both sides to heighten the dialogue, but if the hand a few degrees off central the person was obviously waving.
 
Likes: 3kramd5
Apr 23, 2018
1,051
143
#36
First: Mirrorless is an evolution, not a revolution.
Third: Think Olympus and Panasonic. Sony is late into the game, same as Canon and Nikon.

I see it differently.
A. Sony was the first one to make mirrorfree cameras for real, both with APS-C and even more so with FF sensors - cameras and lenses that can more challenge any mirrorslapper system head on.
B. Quarter-sensored retro-styled gear does not fully count. That's why Olympus and Panasonic [consumer gear] along with all of mFT universe are doomed, despite having been first with mirrorfree cameras.
C. If mirrorfree was only a "tiny evolutionary step" then CaNikon would not have withheld that technology so long from their paying customers. Mirrorfree is a paradigm shift, both for users and even more so for oligopolist customer-milking corporations like Canon and Nikon.
In reality, mirrorfree camera gear [with global shutter sensors] really is "stage 2" in the 3-stage transition process of 19/20th century photography gear into 21st century:
1. Film -> Digital - chemistry stuff
2. Mirroslap -> Mirror- and Shutter-free - eliminate moving mechanical parts from cameras
[step 2B is removal of mech iris blades in lenses, pelaced with electronic "LCD"-screens with variable size, always perfectly round openings]
3. Single, large optical lenses -> small, multiple lenses/computational photography = elimination of large, expensive polished glass lenses from photography
That's whats really going on and what really upsets CaNikon's apple cart. Especially step 3 may spell their spell their doom, along with Sony (stills, consumer) Imaging and their ludicrous lens prices. :)
 
Apr 23, 2018
1,051
143
#37
Because it is a very competitive industry and nuance and inflection are everything, particularly when you are looking for a visual representation to illustrate a specific point of view or bias.

Is that single image in a sequence of somebody waving with a straight arm able to imply a Nazi salute for a story about some right wing organization? If it could it could be used by both sides to heighten the dialogue, but if the hand a few degrees off central the person was obviously waving.
even more mundane. Take a series of pictures of any person speaking or singing [=mouth opened in varying degrees] and 90% of all images captured in the process will look so bad, that both photographer and subject will definitely not want to see them published. :)
If more than 1 person is in the frame, the problem is aggravated exponentially by the power of "# of people in the frame". :)

And that's only the "open mouth problem", not yet considering eyes (blinking, squinting, one-eye closed , ...), facial expression (grimaces, etc. ), gestures, hands, arms, posture/pose, full body, clothing (anything from some unwanted creases to major dress desasters/nipplegate ) ... :)
Multiplied with any number of cross-cultural connotations with regards to the mentioned factors. :)
 
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3kramd5

EOS 5D Mark IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,552
111
#38
Because it is a very competitive industry and nuance and inflection are everything, particularly when you are looking for a visual representation to illustrate a specific point of view or bias.

Is that single image in a sequence of somebody waving with a straight arm able to imply a Nazi salute for a story about some right wing organization? If it could it could be used by both sides to heighten the dialogue, but if the hand a few degrees off central the person was obviously waving.
Fair enough. But that's a sad statement about both the industry and its consumers.
 

neuroanatomist

Spends too much time on this forum
Jul 21, 2010
23,313
360
#39
C. If mirrorfree was only a "tiny evolutionary step" then CaNikon would not have withheld that technology so long from their paying customers. Mirrorfree is a paradigm shift, both for users and even more so for oligopolist customer-milking corporations like Canon and Nikon.
About 9 years. That's how long it's been since the introduction of APS-C MILCs...and DSLRs still dominate the ILC market. A 9-year span also separates the introduction of a mass-market APS-C DSLR and the discontinuation of Polaroid and Kodachrome film. That's the difference between a minor evolution and a paradigm shift.

As for Canon and Nikon 'withholding technology', Canon launched the EOS M two years after Sony and Samsung launched their APS-C DSLRs.

As usual, facts and reality reveal your statements as the typical ridiculous drivel you spout here.
 

Don Haines

posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Jun 4, 2012
7,188
163
Canada
#40
I see it differently.
Quarter-sensored retro-styled gear does not fully count. That's why Olympus and Panasonic [consumer gear] along with all of mFT universe are doomed, despite having been first with mirrorfree cameras.
But it does count..... When you look at sales numbers for Mirrorless camera sales, there they are. When you search a photography store website for mirrorless cameras, there they are...… and they sell a lot of them!