No. OR..... Yes. It depends if I need (OK, want) the EF lens in question. I buy gear that will enable me to do new things,
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fullstop said:to me *and millions of other potential customers* mirrorfree cameras that deliver the same functionality with less slapping, vibration noise and in in a smaller and LESS EXPENSIVE package ... is a paradigm shift. I will buy the mirrorfree option. And millions of others too. Mirrorslapping is doomed, like it or not. And it wil NOT take 10 billion years. ;D
YuengLinger said:Keith_Reeder said:YuengLinger said:I think readers will see that I'm genuinely seeking a discussion about EF being replaced.
Nope, you're coming across an obsessive, to the point of trolling, about your current bête noire.
Any such discussion would be an utterly pointless speculation-fest, the only purpose of which would be to fuel your histrionic paranoia about an unknowable future.
...All compelling topics to somebody, surely, but within the context of Canon, a new FF lens mount is a pretty big deal. They only come along every 30 years or so.
...but I think if Canon has a huge hit with mirrorless, the native EF mount will be phased out sooner rather than later...
...What is it about the topic question that set you off?
unfocused said:YuengLinger said:Keith_Reeder said:YuengLinger said:I think readers will see that I'm genuinely seeking a discussion about EF being replaced.
Nope, you're coming across an obsessive, to the point of trolling, about your current bête noire.
Any such discussion would be an utterly pointless speculation-fest, the only purpose of which would be to fuel your histrionic paranoia about an unknowable future.
...All compelling topics to somebody, surely, but within the context of Canon, a new FF lens mount is a pretty big deal. They only come along every 30 years or so.
...but I think if Canon has a huge hit with mirrorless, the native EF mount will be phased out sooner rather than later...
...What is it about the topic question that set you off?
I can only speak for myself. It's not the topic so much as it is your continuously repeating the same worries over and over again even after others have patiently and rationally explained that the concerns are unfounded. This isn't a discussion. It's people responding to your concerns and you constantly returning to the same concerns over and over again, despite everyone's best efforts to talk you off the ledge.
As others have explained, comparing an additional lens mount to the wholesale conversion from FD to EF is not valid. If you can't understand the difference after so many people have explained it...well...you probably never will.
I don't understand why you can't comprehend that EF lenses are going to remain the core lens product for Canon for many many years (decades at least) and that the niche market mirrorless lenses are unlikely to extend beyond a handful of walkaround zooms and maybe a couple of small primes. That any EF lens you buy today will always work on a Canon mirrorless or DSLR camera.
I feel like we are talking to Eeyore. You seem deadset on looking at the cloudy side no matter how bright the sun is.
YuengLinger said:dSLR sales have been steadily declining the past five years (though in part because the market has been saturated). I think they are down about 25% industry-wide.
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/14/death-dslrs-near/
neuroanatomist said:What is your evidence that mirrorless cameras are LESS EXPENSIVE, by the way?
fullstop said:YuengLinger said:dSLR sales have been steadily declining the past five years (though in part because the market has been saturated). I think they are down about 25% industry-wide.
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/14/death-dslrs-near/
DSLR sales have HALFED from 2012 to 2017. And they will really PLUMMET now, when mirrorless lineups with APS-C and FF sensors become available.
EF mount will definitely NOT be around for decades. I expect the last Canon mirrorslapper to be produced by 2025. Not many more new/ "updated" EF lenses, once EF-X is launched. Well, maybe Mk. III paintjobs.
Don Haines said:fullstop said:YuengLinger said:dSLR sales have been steadily declining the past five years (though in part because the market has been saturated). I think they are down about 25% industry-wide.
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/14/death-dslrs-near/
DSLR sales have HALFED from 2012 to 2017. And they will really PLUMMET now, when mirrorless lineups with APS-C and FF sensors become available.
EF mount will definitely NOT be around for decades. I expect the last Canon mirrorslapper to be produced by 2025. Not many more new/ "updated" EF lenses, once EF-X is launched. Well, maybe Mk. III paintjobs.
Why do you assume that Mirrorless requires a new mount?
Don Haines said:neuroanatomist said:What is your evidence that mirrorless cameras are LESS EXPENSIVE, by the way?
Basically, it is the same thing, except you remove the mirror, AF unit, and optical viewfinder from it, and replace it with an EVF.... add a driver port to the main board, some software, and you are good to go!
It should be cheaper to produce and install the EVF than the other stuff....
That said, when you look at the cost to make the body, the sensor the motherboard, all the associated electronics/buttons/switches/etc... that the cost savings is probably one or two percent.... but you also have to pay for the R+D....
There is an old saying; A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all.
fullstop said:DSLR sales have HALFED from 2012 to 2017. And they will really PLUMMET now, when mirrorless lineups with APS-C and FF sensors become available.
fullstop said:EF mount will definitely NOT be around for decades. I expect the last Canon mirrorslapper to be produced by 2025. Not many more new/ "updated" EF lenses, once EF-X is launched. Well, maybe Mk. III paintjobs.
YuengLinger said:Don Haines said:fullstop said:YuengLinger said:dSLR sales have been steadily declining the past five years (though in part because the market has been saturated). I think they are down about 25% industry-wide.
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/14/death-dslrs-near/
DSLR sales have HALFED from 2012 to 2017. And they will really PLUMMET now, when mirrorless lineups with APS-C and FF sensors become available.
EF mount will definitely NOT be around for decades. I expect the last Canon mirrorslapper to be produced by 2025. Not many more new/ "updated" EF lenses, once EF-X is launched. Well, maybe Mk. III paintjobs.
Why do you assume that Mirrorless requires a new mount?
Don, as you can see from my posts, I'm hoping that, somehow, Canon can continue with EF on the new generation of FF mirrorless.
Are you assuming FF mirrorless will not have a new mount?
I didn't start reading articles such as these in the links below until unfocused accused me of being paranoid and worried about nothing for broaching the topic!
https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/09/canon-and-nikon-are-reportedly-both-planning-full-frame-mirrorless-cameras-this-year/
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/25/17611108/nikon-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-system-announced
And several others assume that a new FF mirrorless will have a new mount. Seems like Nikon has already decided.
neuroanatomist said:Don Haines said:neuroanatomist said:What is your evidence that mirrorless cameras are LESS EXPENSIVE, by the way?
Basically, it is the same thing, except you remove the mirror, AF unit, and optical viewfinder from it, and replace it with an EVF.... add a driver port to the main board, some software, and you are good to go!
It should be cheaper to produce and install the EVF than the other stuff....
That said, when you look at the cost to make the body, the sensor the motherboard, all the associated electronics/buttons/switches/etc... that the cost savings is probably one or two percent.... but you also have to pay for the R+D....
There is an old saying; A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all.
At issue is people buying these cameras, and in that context it's retail cost that matters, not production costs. Any evidence that MILCs cost less that roughly equivalent DSLRs?
fullstop said:EF mount will definitely NOT be around for decades. I expect the last Canon mirrorslapper to be produced by 2025. Not many more new/ "updated" EF lenses, once EF-X is launched. Well, maybe Mk. III paintjobs.
takesome1 said:neuroanatomist said:Don Haines said:neuroanatomist said:What is your evidence that mirrorless cameras are LESS EXPENSIVE, by the way?
Basically, it is the same thing, except you remove the mirror, AF unit, and optical viewfinder from it, and replace it with an EVF.... add a driver port to the main board, some software, and you are good to go!
It should be cheaper to produce and install the EVF than the other stuff....
That said, when you look at the cost to make the body, the sensor the motherboard, all the associated electronics/buttons/switches/etc... that the cost savings is probably one or two percent.... but you also have to pay for the R+D....
There is an old saying; A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all.
At issue is people buying these cameras, and in that context it's retail cost that matters, not production costs. Any evidence that MILCs cost less that roughly equivalent DSLRs?
A MILC should cost less, once demand levels out, RD is covered etc. I would think it would be more than one or two percent, but then I have never bought and installed a mirror.
Some versions may cost more. When the first M3 was released the biggest complaint was a view finder. Then they add one and along comes the viewfinder on the M5, again I have never bought the components inside the M5's view finder but I would bet the digital components cost more than a mirror.
stevelee said:I’m likely to last a few more years, but probably not a few more decades myself, so I’m not much worried.
takesome1 said:stevelee said:CanonFanBoy said:neuroanatomist said:takesome1 said:So you think the same connection used to exchange data with a 30 year old design has no room for improvement?
If I want to electronically transmit a 7 letter word (for example, asinine or foolish), does a gigabit ethernet connection offer meaningful benefit over dial-up? No.
Nobody does it better than Neuro. Nobody.
+1
Sure, Neuro is great at transmitting 7 letter words. With over 22,000 posts this is a well established fact.
takesome1 said:neuroanatomist said:Don Haines said:neuroanatomist said:What is your evidence that mirrorless cameras are LESS EXPENSIVE, by the way?
Basically, it is the same thing, except you remove the mirror, AF unit, and optical viewfinder from it, and replace it with an EVF.... add a driver port to the main board, some software, and you are good to go!
It should be cheaper to produce and install the EVF than the other stuff....
That said, when you look at the cost to make the body, the sensor the motherboard, all the associated electronics/buttons/switches/etc... that the cost savings is probably one or two percent.... but you also have to pay for the R+D....
There is an old saying; A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all.
At issue is people buying these cameras, and in that context it's retail cost that matters, not production costs. Any evidence that MILCs cost less that roughly equivalent DSLRs?
A MILC should cost less, once demand levels out, RD is covered etc. I would think it would be more than one or two percent, but then I have never bought and installed a mirror.
Some versions may cost more. When the first M3 was released the biggest complaint was a view finder. Then they add one and along comes the viewfinder on the M5, again I have never bought the components inside the M5's view finder but I would bet the digital components cost more than a mirror.
YuengLinger said:But I don't have that power of prophecy...