5D iii with 135 mm 85 mm 50 mm wedding in servo poor focus any ideas?

[lukemike]

Hi there.
I was shooting a wedding yesterday. 5d iii worked great with one major exception. When shooting couples dancing (iso around 5000 1/200 s ). it was not able to deliver a sharp image (maybe one sharp in 10 shots) lenses used 50 f/1.4 , 85 f/1.8, 135 f/2L and 16-35 f/2.8 L II. Servo mode tried differnet cases different settings (points, first image priority etc). It was not a motion blur. Does anyone have an experience working with these lenses in servo? I mean I tried everything with no result. Are these lenses simply too slow for tracking? Was it too dark? Thanks.

 

[Sporgon]

Maybe you should have tried a 6D ?

 

[RLPhoto]

Did you set the camera to focus priority and use only the cross type points? Also did you try using AF assist on a speedlite?

 

[IsaacImage]

Just to let you know, that in "AL SERVO" mode AF assist doesn't work. so that's might cause of your problem.
135L on of the faster Canon lenses BTW.
Cheers

 

[jdramirez]

What was your depth of field? If you are simply aiming at the front of the couple

O|O

You have the person, then the space in between the couple, and then the partner. Maybe you were shooting at a DOF too shallow and so the partner was out of focus.

I'd suggest shooting with speedlites and a aperture of maybe f/5.6... of camera of course... I have an article in my to read list upstairs... I'll post that later, but I don't shoot weddings... so it is low on my to read list.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Hi there.
I was shooting a wedding yesterday. 5d iii worked great with one major exception. When shooting couples dancing (iso around 5000 1/200 s ). it was not able to deliver a sharp image (maybe one sharp in 10 shots) lenses used 50 f/1.4 , 85 f/1.8, 135 f/2L and 16-35 f/2.8 L II. Servo mode tried differnet cases different settings (points, first image priority etc). It was not a motion blur. Does anyone have an experience working with these lenses in servo? I mean I tried everything with no result. Are these lenses simply too slow for tracking? Was it too dark? Thanks.

Your settings need to be changed to require focus lock priority. In AI Servo, the shutter will open before focus is achieved unless you change your settings.

I don't have my 5D3 here at my desk, but the settings are in the manual. You want to prioritize focus over a quick shot.

 

[risc32]

i second what mt spokane said. i shoot wedding receptions often and i would like to ask if you were using your flash. if not, 1/200th might just be to slow. you were at iso 5000, hmmm.... well, i'm usually at iso 800, f2.8-f4, and somewhere between 1/50th-1/200th(sometimes much slower yet, but that's usually for effect), and i use flash + servo focus, "stock" standard AF setting. when i get a shot off before my flash recycles i can see that without it i really don't have anything, so the flash is building the whole thing. i miss some, but i keep most, plus i take plenty.

 

[YuengLinger]

And I third what MtSpokane said, and second what risc32 is suggesting.

As for the lenses, the 135mm is one of my quickest for AF, and my 16-35mm (version 1) is very snappy. I do like to have at least a 430ex on for a little AF assist (with the flash set to not fire) in lower light situations.

As for the 85mm 1.8, that might be the fastest AF I've ever used. Pretty much instantaneous. The 50mm 1.4 is also quick for me, but not as accurate as any of the others in low light for me.

In my still limited wedding experience, at many receptions, using a flash bothers few guests. I've done quite a few other low light events, though, and if you have your camera set with a higher ISO, say 3200, you need very little flash to just bring some life and separation to skin tones while still keeping a high enough shutter speed to sharpen up features. Bouncing the flash is very important, and, of course, no matter which way the flash head is pointed, you still get the benefit of the AF assist beam. Having an assistant who you work well with is fantastic for having a little off-camera flash (but you still need a master speedlite on your camera for the AF assist).

 

[jdramirez]

I have a yongnuo 622c and it sends out the ir beams, but it also doesn't work in ai servo... but it does work in the middle option, whatever that is called... and it is supposed to react to movement.

 

[lukemike]

Thanks for the input guys. To answer a couple of questions. No no flash was used so no assist beam. It was not motion blur. Yes I have changed first image to focus priority instead of shutter release priority with no result. My tracking in servo is spot on, aiming for the head for a few seconds before first shot - did sports for a while so the focus point is where it needs to be and stays there. I was just wondering if anybody had the same crappy experience with this setup as I did (which is not mine btw). I was just shocked how bad it was - it is 1dx focus module after all. Don't get me wrong 5d iii worked great for all static shots, sharp and accurate, it was just that servo mode. Anyway if anyone had similar problem or doesn't have any problems pkease let me know. Thank you.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Thanks for the input guys. To answer a couple of questions. No no flash was used so no assist beam. It was not motion blur. Yes I have changed first image to focus priority instead of shutter release priority with no result. My tracking in servo is spot on, aiming for the head for a few seconds before first shot - did sports for a while so the focus point is where it needs to be and stays there. I was just wondering if anybody had the same crappy experience with this setup as I did (which is not mine btw). I was just shocked how bad it was - it is 1dx focus module after all. Don't get me wrong 5d iii worked great for all static shots, sharp and accurate, it was just that servo mode. Anyway if anyone had similar problem or doesn't have any problems pkease let me know. Thank you.

Mine has no issues that way, the camera might have a problem. Make sure you are not using spot AF, its poor in low light, activate the surround points.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

These are tricky lenses to master and it takes a number of years to fully get the best out of them. So I wouldn't expect a fast prime newbie to pick a set up....rock up to a wedding / paid gig and expect stellar results. This is why my 2nd photographer grew into her primes proportionately to her skill growth in the wedding industry.
Personally, I think it's easier to use a 6D / 5DII with a fine focus screen, using centre point...point and re-compose technique. you can see when the lens depth of field isn't in the right place. The 5DIII's AF is amazing, but the viewfinder screen is DOF limited to about f2.8. A fast prime's DOF is a LOT shallower than that and can't be perceived through the view finder.

 

[YuengLinger]

Light was too low, or camera has a problem, or user error (which I guess also encompasses light being too low).

Time to try this again in a PRACTICE situation before an event. Create the same light, as close as you can, get some friends as stand-ins, and figure out what went wrong.

Such a rehearsal is pretty much required if you expect to get paid. And more than once.

 

[jdramirez]

http://fstoppers.com/free-wedding-tutorial-how-to-light-wedding-reception-venues

for what it is worth... I skimmed it... it seemed reasonable...

 

[Albi86]

Are these lenses simply too slow for tracking?

I don't have direct experience with all of those, but it seems to me that this is the most likely circumstance. High performance in AI Servo doesn't sound like an engineering priority for a 50/1.4 or a UWA zoom.

Consider that the 50, 85 and 135mm are also very old lenses.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Lukemke.
We're you using Back Button Focus? Either way have a look at this posting for more ideas on problems with AIServo focus.
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20883.0

Cheers Graham.

Hi there.
I was shooting a wedding yesterday. 5d iii worked great with one major exception. When shooting couples dancing (iso around 5000 1/200 s ). it was not able to deliver a sharp image (maybe one sharp in 10 shots) lenses used 50 f/1.4 , 85 f/1.8, 135 f/2L and 16-35 f/2.8 L II. Servo mode tried differnet cases different settings (points, first image priority etc). It was not a motion blur. Does anyone have an experience working with these lenses in servo? I mean I tried everything with no result. Are these lenses simply too slow for tracking? Was it too dark? Thanks.

 

[Marsu42]

Are these lenses simply too slow for tracking?

Without putting too fine a point on it, if it doesn't work with these lenses and the 5d3 af your technique might need some improvement. For comparison, try a 6d and 100L :->

Was it too dark?

Yes, indeed, was it too dark? Your 5d3 af works up to -2LV, what was your light value (exposure time, aperture, iso of some shots)?

 

[risc32]

i can say without any reservations it's not the lenses. whatever you use won't net you 100% keepers, but unless something silly is happening you should be getting something north of 80%. i also used to shoot sports and still do with my kids. clearly sporting events requirements vary, but i've never seen any sporting event like a wedding reception. it's good exp though, just different, like all the other niches in photography. in my exp i would say that if my 5dmk3 can get a lock on something at a wedding, it doesn't really lose it. i really only struggle when it's so dark i can't get anything out of it. then i switch to MF and shoot it up. sometimes it is just silly dark. i'd like to know what aperture values you were using, and maybe a rough estimate of shooting distance. either that was just to much of an ask, your 5d settings are funny, or it's defective. you liked what the 1dx could do, was that a wedding, or people running around on a sunny day?

 

[jdramirez]

Unless I'm shooting in burst at a moving target, I usually don't use ai servo. I put the camera in one of the first two options and take single shots.

As for the lenses af motor being too slow, the 135 can be used in a sports capacity and it is not to slow the 85 L and mkii are slow... but not the f1.8. I haven't used the fifty in a while, but I would say it should be fine shooting dancers.

 

[Random Orbits]

Honestly, I've never liked using fast primes in AI servo (24L II, 35L, 50 f/1.4, 50L, 85L II). The 135L has much faster AF speed than the other fast primes, but my lenses of choice for that type of shot are the 24-70L f/2.8 II and the 70-200L f/2.8 IS II. I find that those two zooms are MUCH better for AI servo than the primes listed above, so yes, the lens can definitely affect AI servo performance.

The other issue is low light/low contrast targets. AF accuracy is poorer at lower light levels in servo. The -2 spec for the 5DIII is for statics. It can take over 1 second to lock in at something at -2 EV, so tracking accurately at low light levels is going to be VERY hard. I tend to use a single point (rather than point expansion) in crowds to more easily have the AF focus on the target I want. Also focus on high contrast edges (light colored shirt/dark jacket) and as RLPhoto suggested, use only the cross points -- they work better when the lighting gets tough.