1DXR Speculation

[unfocused]

I don't understand why everyone flips out when someone argues the 1D line could use a high MP sensor...

...Recognize that some folks need high resolution and don't want to settle for a (wince as I say it) 2nd class rig to get it. ...

...So the need is there. The question is how big is that need and would Canon make any money on such a rig?

I don't think "everyone flips out" but I do think that most of the people who argue for high megapixel sensors seldom articulate a "need" that goes beyond, "I want one."

Generally, I think that the people who object are users who don't want to accept the compromises that a high megapixel sensor brings with it. Many also doubt that the market does exist.

You can count me among the skeptics.

I would like to see someone articulate a genuine need and link that need to a large market. It isn't needed for billboard size printing, it isn't needed for printing on the side of buses and it isn't even need for banners that hang down the side of a building. (My 5D files have been used for all three.)

It isn't needed for print or web.

I could see some interest among artists. I've seen the video of Martin Parr using the 5Ds to make life sized prints of subjects and I expect that Andreas Gursky might find the large files interesting, but how big of a market is that? Maybe a couple dozen across the world – at most.

Possibly some technical applications. Surveillance cameras or microscope photography, but I expect that those are not off-the-shelf models, so it's irrelevant to this discussion. And, again, not huge market.

So, when you say "the need is there" I'd love to hear what that need is. And, for extra credit, I'd love to see a reasonable estimate of the market.

 

[eml58]

It's an interesting discussion, at least I think so.

My recent rip to Sthe Africa, Kenya & Botswana I had 2 x 1Dx II Bodies (My Son was with me & used 1 of them), plus the H6D 50c and 5 Hasselblad Lenses 28, 55, 210 & 300.

The 1Dx II was either being used on single shot, or 14fps, depending.

The H6D was always used at it's maximum frame rate, 1.5 fps.

On a number of occasions I was on the ground with the H6D shooting Elephants walking by at approximately 5 to 8 metre distance, using the 28 or 55, I would have loved, just loved to have had this Camera shooting 8 to 10fps. I could have used the 1Dx II, But there were clouds in the background & I simply wanted that huge file to play with and all the benefits that come from Medium Format.

So, 1DxR 50MP @ 14fps ?? and improved low light performance, I'll take 2.

 

[privatebydesign]

As a long time owner and user of the 1DS MkIII, since back when 21MP was huge, I'd happily take a higher resolution 1DXS.

Not fussed about the 50MP, or the 14fps, I'd happily compromise on the two, but I'd compromise on the fps first.

For me personally I am a generalist and want one camera to deliver everything I need. I shoot a bit of sports, a few weddings, product, studio, landscapes, travel, etc. and I am finding my clients want bigger prints as well as low resolution web images and newsprint.

Ideally I'd personally like 16 bit RAW files with 16 bits of information, deeper dynamic range, better color handling, 35-40MP, 10fps and no AA filter.

As I can't have that I know there must be a development 1DX hybrid with a 5DSR sensor in it somewhere in the Canon R&D vaults, give me that! Pretty please.

 

[Perio]

It's an interesting discussion, at least I think so.

My recent rip to Sthe Africa, Kenya & Botswana I had 2 x 1Dx II Bodies (My Son was with me & used 1 of them), plus the H6D 50c and 5 Hasselblad Lenses 28, 55, 210 & 300.

The 1Dx II was either being used on single shot, or 14fps, depending.

The H6D was always used at it's maximum frame rate, 1.5 fps.

On a number of occasions I was on the ground with the H6D shooting Elephants walking by at approximately 5 to 8 metre distance, using the 28 or 55, I would have loved, just loved to have had this Camera shooting 8 to 10fps. I could have used the 1Dx II, But there were clouds in the background & I simply wanted that huge file to play with and all the benefits that come from Medium Format.

So, 1DxR 50MP @ 14fps ?? and improved low light performance, I'll take 2.

Could you please comment on weather sealing of your Hassy?

 

[eml58]

It's an interesting discussion, at least I think so.

My recent rip to Sthe Africa, Kenya & Botswana I had 2 x 1Dx II Bodies (My Son was with me & used 1 of them), plus the H6D 50c and 5 Hasselblad Lenses 28, 55, 210 & 300.

The 1Dx II was either being used on single shot, or 14fps, depending.

The H6D was always used at it's maximum frame rate, 1.5 fps.

On a number of occasions I was on the ground with the H6D shooting Elephants walking by at approximately 5 to 8 metre distance, using the 28 or 55, I would have loved, just loved to have had this Camera shooting 8 to 10fps. I could have used the 1Dx II, But there were clouds in the background & I simply wanted that huge file to play with and all the benefits that come from Medium Format.

So, 1DxR 50MP @ 14fps ?? and improved low light performance, I'll take 2.

Could you please comment on weather sealing of your Hassy?

Yes, the H6D is fully weather sealed, as are the Lenses.

I have put that to the test on the recent trip to Africa in some very dusty conditions, after 5 weeks of using the H6D not a single dust spot on the Sensor, and unlike the 1Dx II where I put the 200-400 on one body and the 100-400 on the other and left them for the duration, the H6D I frequently changed Lenses.

That's Dust, so I expect under reasonable weather conditions the Hassy is as well sealed as the 1Series Bodies from Canon.

I'll know more after this December/January when I'll be testing the H6D 100c on the Snow Monkeys, in Snow (I hope) in Nagano Japan.

I must admit prior to the trip to Africa I was quietly concerned regards Dust and the Sensor, made sure I had plenty of Sensor cleaning gear from Zeiss for the H6D, simply didn't need to use any of it, impressed for a MF Camera.

 

[Perio]

It's an interesting discussion, at least I think so.

My recent rip to Sthe Africa, Kenya & Botswana I had 2 x 1Dx II Bodies (My Son was with me & used 1 of them), plus the H6D 50c and 5 Hasselblad Lenses 28, 55, 210 & 300.

The 1Dx II was either being used on single shot, or 14fps, depending.

The H6D was always used at it's maximum frame rate, 1.5 fps.

On a number of occasions I was on the ground with the H6D shooting Elephants walking by at approximately 5 to 8 metre distance, using the 28 or 55, I would have loved, just loved to have had this Camera shooting 8 to 10fps. I could have used the 1Dx II, But there were clouds in the background & I simply wanted that huge file to play with and all the benefits that come from Medium Format.

So, 1DxR 50MP @ 14fps ?? and improved low light performance, I'll take 2.

Could you please comment on weather sealing of your Hassy?

Yes, the H6D is fully weather sealed, as are the Lenses.

I have put that to the test on the recent trip to Africa in some very dusty conditions, after 5 weeks of using the H6D not a single dust spot on the Sensor, and unlike the 1Dx II where I put the 200-400 on one body and the 100-400 on the other and left them for the duration, the H6D I frequently changed Lenses.

That's Dust, so I expect under reasonable weather conditions the Hassy is as well sealed as the 1Series Bodies from Canon.

I'll know more after this December/January when I'll be testing the H6D 100c on the Snow Monkeys, in Snow (I hope) in Nagano Japan.

I must admit prior to the trip to Africa I was quietly concerned regards Dust and the Sensor, made sure I had plenty of Sensor cleaning gear from Zeiss for the H6D, simply didn't need to use any of it, impressed for a MF Camera.

Thank you!

 

[retroreflection]

All this talk of frame rate, but that is not the critical improvement one could expect from the 1DxII - FOCUS people!
5DSR arrived and everyone freaked about resolution capability of lenses, shutter induced shake (cool cams were introduced to reduce this shake), tripod stability (internal reinforcements were introduced), and human frailties. Not so much about the autofocus capabilities. That's probably because the 5DIII had a reasonable system for the market at the time. Now, 1DXII has a significantly better AF system.

It is entirely reasonable for Canon's resolution monster to have the best AF system that they can deliver so that all resolution degrading factors are optimized. In a studio, the various generations of AF systems would not show a difference, but we know that some 5DSRs are used on wildlife and sports. In those arenas, the best AF system is warranted.

 

[privatebydesign]

AF is the overwhelming reason I got 1DS MkIII's over 5D MkII's. It would be the main reason I got a 1DX MkII over a 5DSR.

 

[Meatcurry]

Am I right to think that the 50mp sensor is a scaled up 20mp APSC?...

Not quite. 7DII and 70D are dual pixel sensors. 5Ds is not.

Would that be a limitation of the production techniques, or just that it was not required on the 5DS?

 

[Meatcurry]

Am I right to think that the 50mp sensor is a scaled up 20mp APSC? If so are my maths correct if the 24mp is scaled up it will be 62mp?

I'm just speculating on the sensor the 1DXR will have. Also wondering what FPS it could achieve?

hahahaha!

I can't think of anything that 1DX owners would hate more than 62MP at 14 fps

It isn't as if they'd always be forced to mash on burst most. It would be there if needed.

That being said, if there is a true successor to the 1Ds lineup, I don't suspect it will be super high framerate.

No but I reckon they could manage 7-8 FPS, and allow it to run faster in crop mode

 

[StudentOfLight]

For the outdoor photographers:
Full frame 50MP @ 10fps (40 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-H crop mode (90 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-C crop mode (135 CR2, >200 JPEG)
Reworked 50MP sensor with improved DR, and including DPAF in the APS-C portion of the sensor.
Much better silent shutter.
8GB buffer. Dual Cfast 2.0
Maybe lighter-weight body, maybe more AF points
Some insane high quality slow-mo for just a few seconds. (e.g. 10bit-UHD at 96fps for 2 seconds)

For the studio photographers:
1Ds-R - 120MP @ 5fps (native ISO 64-3200)
A non-DPAF sensor instead focusing on detail, color and dynamic range. Canon is already working on a 120MP full frame sensor so using 4x4 superpixel interpolation that would give full color at 30MP. Built-in RT transmitter. Dual CFast 2.0.

 

[Loswr]

For the outdoor photographers:
Full frame 50MP @ 10fps (40 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-H crop mode (90 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-C crop mode (135 CR2, >200 JPEG)
Reworked 50MP sensor with improved DR, and including DPAF in the APS-C portion of the sensor.
Much better silent shutter.
8GB buffer. Dual Cfast 2.0
Maybe lighter-weight body, maybe more AF points
Some insane high quality slow-mo for just a few seconds. (e.g. 10bit-UHD at 96fps for 2 seconds)

For the studio photographers:
1Ds-R - 120MP @ 5fps (native ISO 64-3200)
A non-DPAF sensor instead focusing on detail, color and dynamic range. Canon is already working on a 120MP full frame sensor so using 4x4 superpixel interpolation that would give full color at 30MP. Built-in RT transmitter. Dual CFast 2.0.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh with my morning coffee!

 

[unfocused]

Am I right to think that the 50mp sensor is a scaled up 20mp APSC?...

Not quite. 7DII and 70D are dual pixel sensors. 5Ds is not.

Would that be a limitation of the production techniques, or just that it was not required on the 5DS?

It means that the the person who originally posted made a wrong assumption. It also means there is no free lunch. Canon did not put DPAF in the 5Ds for a reason. No one here knows the reason, but a reasonable speculation is that DPAF requires some trade offs. Since the 5Ds is a landscape camera and DPAF is ideally suited for landscape photography, it is reasonable to assume that Canon would have put DPAF into the 5Ds if they could have done so without making other compromises. What those compromises are, I don't know. But, compromised ISO performance might be one of them.

 

[unfocused]

For the outdoor photographers:
Full frame 50MP @ 10fps (40 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-H crop mode (90 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-C crop mode (135 CR2, >200 JPEG)
Reworked 50MP sensor with improved DR, and including DPAF in the APS-C portion of the sensor.
Much better silent shutter.
8GB buffer. Dual Cfast 2.0
Maybe lighter-weight body, maybe more AF points
Some insane high quality slow-mo for just a few seconds. (e.g. 10bit-UHD at 96fps for 2 seconds)

For the studio photographers:
1Ds-R - 120MP @ 5fps (native ISO 64-3200)
A non-DPAF sensor instead focusing on detail, color and dynamic range. Canon is already working on a 120MP full frame sensor so using 4x4 superpixel interpolation that would give full color at 30MP. Built-in RT transmitter. Dual CFast 2.0.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh with my morning coffee!

+1. Will those cameras be delivered by forest fairies riding rainbow unicorns?

 

[StudentOfLight]

For the outdoor photographers:
Full frame 50MP @ 10fps (40 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-H crop mode (90 CR2, >200 JPEG)
12fps in APS-C crop mode (135 CR2, >200 JPEG)
Reworked 50MP sensor with improved DR, and including DPAF in the APS-C portion of the sensor.
Much better silent shutter.
8GB buffer. Dual Cfast 2.0
Maybe lighter-weight body, maybe more AF points
Some insane high quality slow-mo for just a few seconds. (e.g. 10bit-UHD at 96fps for 2 seconds)

For the studio photographers:
1Ds-R - 120MP @ 5fps (native ISO 64-3200)
A non-DPAF sensor instead focusing on detail, color and dynamic range. Canon is already working on a 120MP full frame sensor so using 4x4 superpixel interpolation that would give full color at 30MP. Built-in RT transmitter. Dual CFast 2.0.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh with my morning coffee!

+1. Will those cameras be delivered by forest fairies riding rainbow unicorns?

Are these specs are scientifically impossible?

 

[Loswr]

Are these specs are scientifically impossible?

Probably not. Why does that matter?

 

[StudentOfLight]

Are these specs are scientifically impossible?

Probably not. Why does that matter?

I'm trying to understand why you were laughing.

 

[3kramd5]

Are these specs are scientifically impossible?

Probably not. Why does that matter?

I'm trying to understand why you were laughing.

Was your post a wish list, or like the thread subject, was it speculation?

 

[StudentOfLight]

Are these specs are scientifically impossible?

Probably not. Why does that matter?

I'm trying to understand why you were laughing.

Was your post a wish list, or like the thread subject, was it speculation?

Yes and yes.

"I want it all! I want it all! I want it all! I want it all and I want it now!" - Queen

 

[Loswr]

Are these specs are scientifically impossible?

Probably not. Why does that matter?

I'm trying to understand why you were laughing.

Because the likelihood of Canon releasing a pair of 1-series bodies with those specs is...laughable. Perhaps they could...just as they could decide to sell the 600/4 II for less than the 50/1.8. The latter is only slightly less likely than your spec list wish list pipe dream. I found it quite amusing!