5D III or 7D II?

[chrysoberyl]

I have a 6D and it is a great camera, but not for BIF. My long lens is a 70-200 2.8 II with a 1.4X III teleconverter, but at some point I will buy a 400 or 500mm prime. So the 7D II would be nice to lengthen the reach. My main question is, is the 7D II AF substantially better than that of the 5D III? What other considerations should I have for BIF?

I can’t believe this topic has not come up – but if it has, I am sure someone will kindly direct me to that discussion.

Thanks,
John

 

[Ruined]

I have a 6D and it is a great camera, but not for BIF. My long lens is a 70-200 2.8 II with a 1.4X III teleconverter, but at some point I will buy a 400 or 500mm prime. So the 7D II would be nice to lengthen the reach. My main question is, is the 7D II AF substantially better than that of the 5D III? What other considerations should I have for BIF?

I can’t believe this topic has not come up – but if it has, I am sure someone will kindly direct me to that discussion.

Thanks,
John

For BIF the 7D2 is hard to beat both for its AF and its crop factor. I would get the 7D2. Plus the 5D3 has a problem with AF illumination in AI servo mode that the 7D2 does not.

 

[candc]

The 7dii is pretty much made for birds and bif. The framerate and buffer are really important. The 5diii is probably better for everything else but you already have the 6d which has just as good iq, so you will be all set.

 

[Maximilian]

I do not own the 7D2 but the 5D3.
If you're about to keep your 6D (FF) I'd go for the 7D2 as far as I've read around the net and in this thread as well.
BUT
if you're going to sell the 6D to fund the new body I'd go for the FF body because you'd miss that one otherwise.

 

[AlanF]

I have both. For birding, I grab the 7DII (usually +100-400mm II). The AF is superb, the frame rate significantly better, and there is genuine extra "reach".

 

[chrysoberyl]

I rarely see consensus in this forum, so I am convinced to go with the 7D. Thanks, all!

John

 

[[email protected]]

I use both, and I'd just add one point...

I take out the 5d3 in low light situations. I do a lot of bird photography under a forest canopy, and I find that I must sacrifice range for light in two fashions under certain circumstances. If it's a little darker than I'd like, I'll leave the 7d2 at home and affix the 100-400II to the 5d3. If it's going to be very dark in there (storm clouds under canopy, or evening), I'll take the 70-200II and the 5d3.

This is VERY range limiting, but it's better than not getting any shots at all.

I must say I really appreciate that Canon made the 7d2 to be almost exactly like the 5d3 ergonomically and interface software-wise, as swapping the cameras out like this becomes very trivial. I think the pair was very deliberately designed to work together.

I will also say that I far prefer shooting the 7d2 to my (newer) 5d3, as the features that have been added to the more recently released 7d2 really matter. The shutter speed and the shutter feel (and lack of noise) are the big ones for me. I eagerly await these features being added to a 5d4.

 

[ksgal]

Have a 7DII, and it is spectacular. When I hear comparisons, you do get at least a stop better performace on the 5DIII vs 7D2 for low light, so some choose the 5DIII over it.

But for pixels on the target, Buffer Rate, and superior AF, the 7D2 has it hands down.
(Buffer difference is substantial, 5D3 is ok on CF, not ok when SD card is in there)

It is critical that you expose to the right with this sensor. underexpose it and it looks noisy and looses detail.

 

[Nelu]

I rarely see consensus in this forum, so I am convinced to go with the 7D. Thanks, all!

John

Well, I hope you`ll like your new camera but there is two things that you should take into consideration:
1. Wildlife doesn`t show up for you when the light is good; animals and birds are mostly active at dusk and dawn, when there isn`t much light and when the 5D Mark III is much better than the crop-sensor.
2. The 7D Mark II`s AF is only better on the paper, not in the real life. Not even close!
Yes, the frame rate is better, which will allow you to take many more out-of-focus photos than the 5D Mark III.

I have the 1DX, the 5D Mark III and I also had the 7D Mark II for about a week, but I returned it.
They call the 7D Mark II the "1Dx`s little brother"; I would rather call it the little handicapped brother...

I hope your experience will be different; if not, you have 30 days to return the camera if you don`t like it.

Happy shooting!
Nelu

 

[AlanF]

I rarely see consensus in this forum, so I am convinced to go with the 7D. Thanks, all!

John

Well, I hope you`ll like your new camera but there is two things that you should take into consideration:
1. Wildlife doesn`t show up for you when the light is good; animals and birds are mostly active at dusk and dawn, when there isn`t much light and when the 5D Mark III is much better than the crop-sensor.
2. The 7D Mark II`s AF is only better on the paper, not in the real life. Not even close!
Yes, the frame rate is better, which will allow you to take many more out-of-focus photos than the 5D Mark III.

I have the 1DX, the 5D Mark III and I also had the 7D Mark II for about a week, but I returned it.
They call the 7D Mark II the "1Dx`s little brother"; I would rather call it the little handicapped brother...

I hope your experience will be different; if not, you have 30 days to return the camera if you don`t like it.

Happy shooting!
Nelu

1. "Wildlife doesn`t show up for you when the light is good" - that is a rather surprising statement. Sure animals and birds are active at dawn and dusk, and sometimes very much so, but our threads in "Animal Kingdom" are replete with photos of birds and animals during bright daylight. Without the faster frame rate of the 7DII I would have missed the best shots of eagles and ospreys last week if I had been using my 5DIII.

The 5DIII is indeed rated a stop faster than than the 7DII for the same S/N. If you are standing at the same distance away from the subject with a crop and FF and have the same lens, then you have the same size image on each sensor and the same number of photons. You can down-sample the crop image by 1.6x to give the same number of pixels as the FF, which is equivalent to gaining 0.7 stops in S/N.

2. I don't know what you are doing wrong, but I get shot after shot in sharp focus on both the 5DIII and 7DII.

 

[Nelu]

Sure animals and birds are active at dawn and dusk, and sometimes very much so, but our threads in "Animal Kingdom" are replete with photos of birds and animals during bright daylight. Without the faster frame rate of the 7DII I would have missed the best shots of eagles and ospreys last week if I had been using my 5DIII.

The 5DIII is indeed rated a stop faster than than the 7DII for the same S/N. If you are standing at the same distance away from the subject with a crop and FF and have the same lens, then you have the same size image on each sensor and the same number of photons. You can down-sample the crop image by 1.6x to give the same number of pixels as the FF, which is equivalent to gaining 0.7 stops in S/N.

2. I don't know what you are doing wrong, but I get shot after shot in sharp focus on both the 5DIII and 7DII.

I consider bright daylight to be a bonus if your goal is to take lots of in-focus photos but I usually prepare for the more challenging but also more rewarding light conditions. I prefer to be out for shooting at dawn and dusk because good light cannot be faked in Photoshop, be it for landscapes or birds in flight.

About the success rate with the Canon 7D Mark II: I did perform the lens micro adjustment, without any luck. Probably just a faulty body because the 5D Mark III works really well for me and the 1Dx is simply insanely good.
I have to admit that I`ve seen some really nice photos taken with the 7D Mark II on this website and on others, I`m not saying that the camera doesn`t work.
I just didn`t work for me and probably for others complaining about AF inconsistency.

Cheers
Nelu

 

[AlanF]

How did you attempt AFMA?

 

[chrysoberyl]

All, many thanks; this has been quite valuable, especially the considerations regarding low light conditions. By the time I purchase a 7D II, I hope any AF bugs will have been worked out. And I doubt that I will be disappointed, because my only experience is with the 60D and 6D.

John

 

[Nelu]

How did you attempt AFMA?

Reikan FoCal, same as for my 5D Mark III and 1Dx.

 

[Nelu]

All, many thanks; this has been quite valuable, especially the considerations regarding low light conditions. By the time I purchase a 7D II, I hope any AF bugs will have been worked out. And I doubt that I will be disappointed, because my only experience is with the 60D and 6D.

John

John, please get back to us in a week or two and let us know how do you like it, for BIF and for landscapes, as well.
Thanks,

Nelu

 

[NancyP]

The topic has come up repeatedly.

I too faced that decision, with the same two cameras (60D and 6D) currently in use, and went for the 7D2. It just arrived, and I have not had any time to do more than read its manual and look around the menu. This weekend will be the field trial, AFMA, etc. Price and pixel density are good arguments for using the 7D2 for birding. I have a EF 400 f/5.6L as my birding lens. I can use this lightweight combo for handheld birds in flight - the 60D was fine, I expect the AF of the 7D2 will be a revelation. I will live with a bit extra noise. I want to rent some Big Whites over the next year or so to see whether I can handle them, which I prefer, start saving.

I have found that I generally shoot either birds or landscape, not both on the same outing. Macro works well with both APS-C and FF.

 

[AlanF]

The topic has come up repeatedly.

I too faced that decision, with the same two cameras (60D and 6D) currently in use, and went for the 7D2. It just arrived, and I have not had any time to do more than read its manual and look around the menu. This weekend will be the field trial, AFMA, etc. Price and pixel density are good arguments for using the 7D2 for birding. I have a EF 400 f/5.6L as my birding lens. I can use this lightweight combo for handheld birds in flight - the 60D was fine, I expect the AF of the 7D2 will be a revelation. I will live with a bit extra noise. I want to rent some Big Whites over the next year or so to see whether I can handle them, which I prefer, start saving.

I have found that I generally shoot either birds or landscape, not both on the same outing. Macro works well with both APS-C and FF.

Nancy
I set my 7DII at iso 640 and then process with DxO prime. Noise is virtually non-existent.
It's a great camera to go
with the 400mm.
Alan

 

[bod]

The topic has come up repeatedly.

I too faced that decision, with the same two cameras (60D and 6D) currently in use, and went for the 7D2. It just arrived, and I have not had any time to do more than read its manual and look around the menu. This weekend will be the field trial, AFMA, etc. Price and pixel density are good arguments for using the 7D2 for birding. I have a EF 400 f/5.6L as my birding lens. I can use this lightweight combo for handheld birds in flight - the 60D was fine, I expect the AF of the 7D2 will be a revelation. I will live with a bit extra noise. I want to rent some Big Whites over the next year or so to see whether I can handle them, which I prefer, start saving.

I have found that I generally shoot either birds or landscape, not both on the same outing. Macro works well with both APS-C and FF.

Hi Nancy

I would be very interested to hear how you find the 7DII. I also have the 6D which is great but I am considering adding a 7DII, firstly for more reach when shooting birds and secondly for better AF when shooting field sports. I currently use my old 500D but I have to MFA to get good results and would like an APSC with AFMA and ideally f/8 AF to allow the option of extending reach with TC's.

Alan has posted helpfully on his experience with the 7DII and the new 400 zoom but I am interested to hear how you go with the 7DII and 400 prime. I am thinking of also swopping my 300 f/4 for one of the 400's. I want though to also be able to shoot large insects (e.g butterflies) - does this work well with the prime in view of its longer MFD?

Thanks

 

[digigal]

I have the 7D2 which I use for wildlife (esp birds) and although I have the Canon 400/5.6 lens I replaced is several years ago with the Canon 70-200/2.8 II+ 2x because of its versitility when traveling (I also carry the 1.4x as well). With this combination I'm shooting effectively at the same distance as with the 400 but do give up some ability to acquire focus quickly compared to the bare lens. Sharpness when focus is acquired is extremely good and I hold my own with the guys I shoot with who are using bare Canon 500's and 600 lenses. You do need to have good technique but it's the same weight as the new Canon 100-400 which my husband uses yet I have the option of breaking my lens down and shooting shorter and at 2.8. Basically with my lens and the 2 TC's I've got a 112-640 mm range that's 2.8-5.6 range depending on the TC--just something else to think about. Also we just got back from a trip to Iceland and I used the 7D2 to do all my landscapes as well as the wildlife and I thought it acquitted itself quite well! Here's some shots (processed in LR)

 

[mehaue]

@digigal What lens did you use for landscape photography with your 7D2 ?
Great pictures by the way!

cheers
Martin