5D3 for sports/action?

[Deleted member 7828]

Interesting comments, all.

I'm not a sports photographer but I have tried to shoot a few action events with my 60D. I get relatively mixed results. I wouldn't recommend it if your job depends on it, or you MUST get *THE* shot, but for casual everyday shooting it is OK. Coupled with a 70-200 2.8 lens the hit rate is OK- many non-keepers were my bad, but there were others where the camera did miss focus. Other times I find myself having to wait for the camera to clear buffer, missing a shot or two in the process (I shoot RAW). I feel that it just might be the limits of an aging 9-pt AF system though.

 

[pedro]

For action shooting look to a pre-owned 1 Series. I have a 5D3 and when I first got it, out of curiosity I ran it as a second body at a track & field athletics job. It's IQ and AF were 100% up to the job but the slow frame rate and small buffer reveal the 5D3's strengths & weaknesses. In short, it's not an action shooting camera.

-PW

I own a sports photography company and have used the 1dm3 since it came out in 2007. It performs excellently and for sure the 1dm4 is top of the line. However, given that i got the 5dm3 for my wedding photography company I decided to test it out. I shoot marathons and triathlons and a triathlon has 3 dif types of sports. The most challenging by far being the bike portion since they move very quickly and you need to focus and recompose at an absurd rate of speed. When i tested the 5dm3 early this year I found it was almost every other oof. While i was pleased with the in-focus ones it wasn't enough so given the multiple AF modes i decided to test them out, which is risky when you are doing it with your business...I recently shot a triathlon and with the bike portion instead of shooting single point like i have found is the best for most scenarios and being sports it is your main focus point position, i shot 8 focus point cluster first and found the cluster was the right size but it didn't work well enough so i shot 4pt. I found 4pt expansion to work very well for the bike portion! Using case 3 in the af menu I also set the accel/decel to zero so it wasn't hyper sensitive because the af could become to twitchy changing from the subject i am trying to track. Other than that the Case 1 works for run and swim exit portion fine however i may try a whole Tri with the Case 3 settings. Yes i know it makes sense that the bike case would work best for it since it has the bike icon but i figured Case 1 would be enough. Turns out case 3 jacks up the focus speed quite a bit not making it the slower cousin to the 1dx so much anymore.
I havent even shot an event with my 1dm3 other than for other companies sports events i love the 5d3 that much! Post processing on the 5dm3 is nill. It renders color so well and accurate compared to my 1dm3 which is pretty good too but no where close to the 5dm3. I continue to experiment and if i am not satisfied with the results i am more and more convinced it is because i havent learned how to use the system to its potential.
I so want another 5dm3! Considering selling my 5d, 1dm3 and 24-70L...

Hi, this is great news to me. I was at a local camera shop today and held a 5D3 for the first time...Later this year the shop will provide me a body to rent for a weekend to test it out at my low light event type photography...I am an amateur hardly commercializing my material...But I like the real low light situations for b/w. So I will test it to get accquainted with it and then a few days after I will purchase the body. The renting fee will be discounted from the price. While shooting the 30D center point only at quite low light and ISO 1600 and 3200 I am really looking forward now to shoot the same events even at the same ISOs or higher if necessary! It is backstage scenes I mostly do. A Brass Band getting ready for their performance or other scenes. So thanks a lot for your input on AF and your excitement about my new camera I soon will purchase. I have 70-200 2.8 L, a 85 1.8, a 50 1.4 and a cheapo 28 2.8. As someone once guessed, that 5D3s ISO 3200 is about 30Ds ISO 800 it's gonna be a significant change leading to new low light opportunities. Cheers, Pedro

 

[swampler]

While shooting the 30D center point only at quite low light and ISO 1600 and 3200 I am really looking forward now to shoot the same events even at the same ISOs or higher if necessary! It is backstage scenes I mostly do. A Brass Band getting ready for their performance or other scenes.

Pedro,
Is this the type of shot you're talking about?

ISO 6400
f/2.8
1/500
200mm

 

[bdunbar79]

I'm not sure why some feel that it CANNOT be used for sports. It doesn't shoot as fast as the 1D Mark IV. It focuses just as fast, it just doesn't SHOOT as fast. There should be no problems with AF'ing quickly, at least I haven't had any. It AF's slightly slower than the 1D X.

 

[pedro]

While shooting the 30D center point only at quite low light and ISO 1600 and 3200 I am really looking forward now to shoot the same events even at the same ISOs or higher if necessary! It is backstage scenes I mostly do. A Brass Band getting ready for their performance or other scenes.

Pedro,
Is this the type of shot you're talking about?

ISO 6400
f/2.8
1/500
200mm

@swampler: yes, that's quite like that. Encouraging! Thx for sharing. Cheers.

 

[bdunbar79]

Totally agree with the previous post. I shoot motorcycles and wildlife.The 7D is amazing, it's autofocus is excellent and it's extra reach is invaluable. A full frame needs a much bigger lens or a massive crop to match it so blowing away the reason for buying it. If close up its a different story. Problem is noise over 1600 but in good light it's excellent. But...

The 1d4 totally blows it away in all but reach. I've tried sports with a 1DS3 similar to a 5D3 in many respects, and it's like shooting with a snails pace camera. I needed a hugh lens because of no crop, miss shots because the shots per sec was to slow. Got a 1D4, amazing! Image quality a 7d could only dream of, Hugh shutter rate, never misses a shot and I can take it out in a monsoon when the none pro cameras have gone to bed. Got mine for less than half the price of an x. It's definatly way more than half the camera. Funnily enough, I never use the 7d unless it's for a distance shot, the 1ds3 is kept for portraits and landscapes, for everything ease the 1d4 is my camera of choice. The crop comes in handy to.

I would argue that the 1D4 blows the 7D away in reach. If you crop, you can crop much farther with the 1D4 vs. 7D due to IQ.

 

[thepancakeman]

I can only tell you what I know from owning a 7D and being in the market for a 5D3:

When I shoot outdoor sports, I love my 7D.

When I shoot indoor sports, I hate my 7D (hence the saving for a 5D3).

The 7D handles well and feels solid, but I have never been completely happy with the IQ, and that unhappiness grows exponentially as the ISO goes up.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The 7D has a deeper buffer (~25 RAWs), vs 18 RAWs using a UDMA-7 card on the 5D3. Here the 5D3 and 50D are similar (16 RAWs).

The 7D vs 5D3 buffer depth in real life was not as in the Canon manuals per my experience (although the 7D metering slowing fps makes it hard to compare the exact same way), I got:

Lexar 1000x, it honestly didn't really do any better than a Sandisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card with a 5D2 or 7D (or surely xxD) cam but with the 5D3.... WOW. And it lets the 5D3 deliver best in class buffer and longer contrinuous shooting times than either the 5D2 or 7D. (UPDATE: 2.0 for 7D boosts 7D performance with 1000x card)

A few numbers (all tests at 1/800th shutter, no IS, no AF, no NR or any other in cam jpg special processing options, max continuous drive mode selected (7D pointed at a bright light so as to maintain max frame rate)) with the raw number being number of shots before you hear it slow down shooting and timed number is the continuous time you could shoot non-stop at the camera's max frame rate (derived by a simple frames/max fps of camera):

Test 1 (lens cap on or super underexposed near black frames (i.e. with requiring minimum for storage) at ISO100 on 5D3):

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Test 2 (as above but on a 5D2):
16 shots (4.1s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
17 shots (4.3s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 5D2; with this speed card the 5D3 actually lets you shoot continuously for less long than the 5D2 or 7D)

Test 3 (as above but on a 7D):
23-29 shots (up to 3.7s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
23-28 shots (up to 3.5s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card
(not sure one time I got the large 28-29 shots and now I get more like only 23, must be related to how little detail I got on the image, 7D shoots slow fps in the dark so I couldn't do it with lens cap on, on a similar test condition when 7D got 23 frames the 5D3 got 27 frames)

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 7D, same result)

Test 4 (as 7D above with now with 2.0 firmware):
getting about 27-30 instead of closer to 23 for the current bright scene being shot (5D3 gets about 27) so the 7D now does about the same to a bit more frames than the 5D3 although at 8fps the total continuous shooting time is LESS than for the 5D3

and then trying it with a Sandisk 90MB/s extremepro instead 7D 2.0 gets:
about 23

(so with 2.0 firmware the Lexar 1000x now DOES make a HUGE difference for the 7D even if not quite as insanely huge as with the 5D3; also appears to show that you'd need one of the best of the best, the Lexar 1000x cards to take any advantage of the 2.0 buffer)


Test 4 (these have an actual image being shot and the ISOs are higher so each RAW file is larger, the performance drops considerably, especially above ISO800 and NOTE that the numbers will vary depending upon the scene shot as different scenes and exposures will produce different file sizes and any given scenario may bump all the numbers noticeably up or down; all are on the Lexar 32GB 1000x card):

ISO3200 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s) - a big drop from the 35 for ISO100 black frame
ISO1600 5D3 - 24 shots (4s)
ISO800 5D3 - 30 shots (5s)

Test 5 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card was used in all cases):

ISO3200 5D3 - 14 shots (2.3s)
ISO1600 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s)
ISO800 5D3 - 22 shots (3.7s)

Test 6 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s card was used):
ISO800 5D3 - 15 shots (2.5s)

So yeah for most Canon cameras the Lexar 1000x will not be worth the money at all (unless you are want to pay that much for faster transfer speed to your computer and your computer supports USB3 and you have a USB3 card read that also takes full UDMA 7 advantage) but for the 5D3 wow if you are serious about shooting action and dont want to be saddled with a shorter shooting time buffer than the old 5D2 or 7D then get the Lexar 1000x, suddenly you actually can shoot for longer times non-stop than with the 5D2 or 7D and often by a large margin. So for the 5D3 and action it is well worth it. (UPDATE: and with the 7D the Lexar 1000x is well worth it too now)

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I have no complaints with my 7D'd AF. Fast an accurate AF even in low light. I've never gotten an oof shot with it that wasn't my fault in one way or another.

Just a tad hyperbole there no?

I don't deny the 5D3 and 1D series have markedly superior AF, but the 7D is a seriously capable tool and I doubt most people ever find themselves in a situation where it would be incapable of getting the shot.

Shoot various sports under various conditions and you'll see.
Or shoot a 24 1.4 indoors with super low, not stage, lighting and believe me you'll see the 5D3 hit better (and even the 5D2 for that matter).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

For action shooting look to a pre-owned 1 Series. I have a 5D3 and when I first got it, out of curiosity I ran it as a second body at a track & field athletics job. It's IQ and AF were 100% up to the job but the slow frame rate and small buffer reveal the 5D3's strengths & weaknesses. In short, it's not an action shooting camera.

The fps are a bit weak for really serious level action shooting but it is just enough you can get by with it now.
The buffer isn't bad at all if you feed it the proper card. Give it a Lexar 1000x 32GB card and you opinion of the buffer may change considerably (the Lexar 1000x 32GB gives it a MUCH larger buffer than even say a Sandisk 32GB 90MB/S ExtremePro card does, much larger).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

@pwp: Thanks for the pre-owned 1D4 idea. I hadn't considered it seriously before you mentioned it.

After thinking it over since yesterday, I'm coming to the conclusion that the 5D3 will probably be my best choice at the moment. During the last 3 years, about half of my shots have been of motorcycle riding at trackdays.
But for the next two years, I'm in mainland China for the company so I will have few opportunities to do this. More likely the majority of my shots will be of the landscape, buildings, fauna, etc. For the situations where I will shoot sports, the 5D3 AF system will most likely do very fine.
Surely Bosman, Wilmark and others' comments attest that the 5D3 AF is no turd when it comes to sports - it will be legions better than my 50D.

A second reason not pursuing a pre-owned 1D4, is that I would have a much harder time finding one here in CN than a new 5D3.

In two years time, I might be able to pick up a used 1DX for action if I still have the need want and the 5D3 cannot deliver. We'll see

Thanks for all the comments, I really appreciate it.

Yeah if you are also going to be doing tons of other stuff an dnot just 100% sports with it then the 5D3 all the way, APS-H is a bit awkward match to many landscape lenses (although you can certainly get around that) and it's a bulky pain of a brick to lug around to everything, the 5D3 has better movies and UI and such.

 

[Jamesy]

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

This is consistent with my findings, I get 21 @ 6fps before it starts to slow down on my 32GB Sandisk 90MB/s card.

 

[kaihp]

The 7D has a deeper buffer (~25 RAWs), vs 18 RAWs using a UDMA-7 card on the 5D3. Here the 5D3 and 50D are similar (16 RAWs).

The 7D vs 5D3 buffer depth in real life was not as in the Canon manuals per my experience

You're right I should have said that this were numbers from the manuals. The 50D seems to fairly spot-on WRT buffer depth.

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Your test data just supports my excuse to invest in a couple of 32GB Lexar 1000x cards
Clearly the CF controller in the 5D3 can take full advantage of the UDMA7 cards, and the v2.0.0 FW update shows that while the CF controller was UDMA7 capable when the 7D was designed, Canon lacked the 1000x-type card to do the FW development to do the finetuning needed to make it peak, and instead chose the conservative route to ensure correct functionality over speed.

 

[Bosman]

I never said the 5dm3 was a turd for sports, i said you need to understand the custom af functions to fit the type of photography and when you find what settings work best then the only compromise it he FPS. Personally I have shot the 1dm3 in 10fps since 2007 when i got it, but the 5dm3 with 6fps doesn't leave me wanting. The 5dm3 renders color so very well! I get excited when see my work later. When shooting in a church last week i was in auto white balance on the 5dm3 but had to go to 2600k on the 1dm3 when not using flash. The triathlon i also shot last saturday had very few misses in focus usually a fluke miss or due to rapidly having to change focus but like i said few misses none the less. Sure its not a 1dm3 but hey changing how i use focal lengths being FF on sports and the settings means things feel a little diff but it isn't a bad diff.

 

[kaihp]

I never said the 5dm3 was a turd for sports

Sir, we are in violent agreement.

 

[bdunbar79]

The 5D3 will do just fine. Especially if you put a 300 f/2.8L I IS lens on it. It'll lock and track at center point just as well as a 1D4 or 1DX in that situation.

 

[kaihp]

I received my 5D3 yesterday evening (hand carry by a friend). The battery was flat so I left it the night over to charge.

Plopped the battery in this morning, played around with the menus and took a couple of shots of the rising sun.
Now I just have to re-adapt to not having a crop camera again. Guess the 70-200 will get more use now.

Damn, this looks like the beginning of a long and good relationship with this camera 8)

Thanks for all your comments, either way.

 

[Bosman]

I received my 5D3 yesterday evening (hand carry by a friend). The battery was flat so I left it the night over to charge.

Plopped the battery in this morning, played around with the menus and took a couple of shots of the rising sun.
Now I just have to re-adapt to not having a crop camera again. Guess the 70-200 will get more use now.

Damn, this looks like the beginning of a long and good relationship with this camera 8)

Thanks for all your comments, either way.

Congrats!

 

[bdunbar79]

I received my 5D3 yesterday evening (hand carry by a friend). The battery was flat so I left it the night over to charge.

Plopped the battery in this morning, played around with the menus and took a couple of shots of the rising sun.
Now I just have to re-adapt to not having a crop camera again. Guess the 70-200 will get more use now.

Damn, this looks like the beginning of a long and good relationship with this camera 8)

Thanks for all your comments, either way.

Awesome! Have fun with it! If you get bored go out and play with the multi-exposure and HDR features. It can be really fun at night! The color smoothness is really nice with this camera, at ISO's above 6400.

 

[kaihp]

Awesome! Have fun with it! If you get bored go out and play with the multi-exposure and HDR features. It can be really fun at night! The color smoothness is really nice with this camera, at ISO's above 6400.

Actually, already thought about using HDR for the sunrise this morning but didn't spend time on it. There was quite a bit of haze in the air, so the pictures aren't the greatest. I'll look at the tonight though.

Edit: Oh, and I need to update the firmware. Got delivered with v1.1.2, and the light leak fix applied.