5D3 may not have real 1DX AF

[LetTheRightLensIn]

From NL:"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version."

So basically all we know is will have the AF points in the same spots as the 1DX but there is no saying that the AF sensor has to be as accurate or sensitive or that their have to be as many x-points, or that it will do f/8 AF if they add that to the 1DX or that it will use the same AI Sevo logic or focus as quickly. Heck it could be Rebel level AF logic and quality only expanded to a ton more points.

Wow, I hope Canon knows what they are doing.
$3500 and the same MP count and they can't even toss us their best AF effort?? Nikon way upped the MP count and gives it their best AF effort and perhaps for $500 less....

Seems like Canon Marketing Dingbats 1 - Brilliant Canon Engineers 0 once again....
Hope not. Hope by simplified they just mean some very minor feature removed from full on 1DX AF and it won't be much of a big deal, but just knowing what Canon has done in the past....

I just hope they know this needs utterly kick-ass AF and high fps if they want $3000-$3500 and don't want the D800 to make it look silly.

 

[Loswr]

I made this exact point previously. Both the xxxD series and the xxD series have 9-pt AF systems, but there's a significant difference between them in terms of performance (1 vs. 9 cross-type points, no dual-cross f/2.8 center point on the xxxD, etc.).

Just stating that the new 5D will have 61-pt AF says very little about it's expected performance characteristics. Giving it a 'dumbed down' version of the 1D X makes sense from a marketing standpoint, as it may mislead buyers into thinking they're getting the same AF as in the 1D X, when they're getting a much less capable system.

 

[bigblue1ca]

Damn and here I'd already decided how I was going to spend the $3500 I'd save by not having to buy the 1D X.


This is a valid point, while I know what Nikon has done, I just have trouble seeing Canon putting their Cadillac 1D X AF system in the 5DIII. From the advertising hype the AF system is a huge part of the appeal of the 1D X. Would that not leave pros thinking....so I'm paying $3500 extra to get 6 more FPS, a weather sealed body, and some very high ISO options that I'll never use, oh and 4 less MP.

Not to mention I'm curious how the image quality will work out between the two, pardon my ignorance, is 4MP noticeable or have much effect when cropping?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I made this exact point previously. Both the xxxD series and the xxD series have 9-pt AF systems, but there's a significant difference between them in terms of performance (1 vs. 9 cross-type points, no dual-cross f/2.8 center point on the xxxD, etc.).

Just stating that the new 5D will have 61-pt AF says very little about it's expected performance characteristics. Giving it a 'dumbed down' version of the 1D X makes sense from a marketing standpoint, as it may mislead buyers into thinking they're getting the same AF as in the 1D X, when they're getting a much less capable system.

I just hope that it's the real 1DX AF with just a minor tweak down that most won't care about too much. But I do fear what you suggest.

They have no video exclusive or high MP count exclusive to fall back on this time so one would hope marketing was not quite so dumb to think they can still cripple the fps and AF and somehow not look foolish.

I do get back to the statement buy that guy who has already held the 5D3 who said that some might still prefer a 1Ds3,1D3,1D4,1Ds2,1D2 even in some ways (I wonder if by that he meant that this 61pt AF actually is just some dumbed down Rebel-level performance AF sensor/logic with a bunch of poorly performing points added on and still mediocre AI Servo tracking speed....).

Anyway we will see.

I hope Canon looks closely that the D800 and reconsiders delaying the 5D3 until next Fall if they actually have crippled it too much. With the D800 supposedly having top quality video, great DR, Nikon's best AF I mean a 22MP and crippled dumbed down 5D3 for $3500.... yikes.

 

[Tijn]

How does the (expected) 1D X AF compare to that of, say, a 7D - the vastly increased amount of focus points aside?

 

[Loswr]

How does the (expected) 1D X AF compare to that of, say, a 7D - the vastly increased amount of focus points aside?

The 7D has one f/2.8-sensitive point (the center one), the rest are f/5.6-sensitive. The 1D X has five f/2.8 points and 20 f/4 points. The wider the baseline, the more accurate the AF. I'm sure the AI Servo algorithms are better on the 1D X as well.

Anyway we will see.

We'll see, indeed. In the mean time, it's fun to speculate!

My guess, assuming the 61-pt spec is true: one f/2.8-sensitive dual cross point (the center one), 30 f/5.6-sensitive cross points (the three vertical columns in the center and the inner columns that are f/4 on the 1D X), Zone AF but no Spot AF and no AF Area Expansion, no help from the metering sensor (which will likely be the 63-zone iFCL and not the 100K pixel RGB sensor).

 

[Tijn]

My guess, assuming the 61-pt spec is true: one f/2.8-sensitive dual cross point (the center one), 30 f/5.6-sensitive cross points (the three vertical columns in the center and the inner columns that are f/4 on the 1D X), Zone AF but no Spot AF and no AF Area Expansion, no help from the metering sensor (which will likely be the 63-zone iFCL and not the 100K pixel RGB sensor).

Why would it lack spot AF? Even the 7D has that.

 

[bigblue1ca]

no help from the metering sensor (which will likely be the 63-zone iFCL and not the 100K pixel RGB sensor).

The 63-zone iFCL is what is in the 7D right now correct? Also, did I read correctly somewhere that you'll be able to meter off of any one of the 1D X's AF points should you choose to do so?

 

[simonxu11]

What can I say, a typical Canon's non 1d camera!! Sigh!

 

[jalbfb]

How does the (expected) 1D X AF compare to that of, say, a 7D - the vastly increased amount of focus points aside?

The 7D has one f/2.8-sensitive point (the center one), the rest are f/5.6-sensitive. The 1D X has five f/2.8 points and 20 f/4 points. The wider the baseline, the more accurate the AF. I'm sure the AI Servo algorithms are better on the 1D X as well.

Anyway we will see.

We'll see, indeed. In the mean time, it's fun to speculate!

My guess, assuming the 61-pt spec is true: one f/2.8-sensitive dual cross point (the center one), 30 f/5.6-sensitive cross points (the three vertical columns in the center and the inner columns that are f/4 on the 1D X), Zone AF but no Spot AF and no AF Area Expansion, no help from the metering sensor (which will likely be the 63-zone iFCL and not the 100K pixel RGB sensor).

So if this proves true, would you upgrade to this or would this keep you on track to get the 1DX?

 

[waving_odd]

This is a valid point, while I know what Nikon has done, I just have trouble seeing Canon putting their Cadillac 1D X AF system in the 5DIII. From the advertising hype the AF system is a huge part of the appeal of the 1D X. Would that not leave pros thinking....so I'm paying $3500 extra to get 6 more FPS, a weather sealed body, and some very high ISO options that I'll never use, oh and 4 less MP.

Exactly!

I just hope that it's the real 1DX AF with just a minor tweak down that most won't care about too much.

Your definition of "minor tweak down" might not be the same as Canon's. While they might think taking away many cross type points, having no assistance by RGB metering data for AF tracking, and putting in a less sophisticated (hence less processing power hungry for just one Digic 5 - not even Digic 5+) are "minor tweak down" for a $3500 cheaper (vs 1D X) 5D III, these might be a big deal to you (vs other potential buyers).

 

[waving_odd]

Also, did I read correctly somewhere that you'll be able to meter off of any one of the 1D X's AF points should you choose to do so?

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos1dx_on_film.do

"...By using the colour data and information from the camera’s 61 AF points, the EOS-1D X is able to detect where in the frame the subject is and then bias the exposure accordingly to ensure the best exposure setting..."

 

[Loswr]

Why no Spot AF? Why no spot metering linked to any selected AF point? The same reason it's not the same AF system in the 1D X - product line differentiation.

But as I stated, this is all purely speculation.

As for me, if this guess is correct, it would definitely incline me to stick with my original plan of getting the 1D X.

 

[waving_odd]

How does the (expected) 1D X AF compare to that of, say, a 7D - the vastly increased amount of focus points aside?

The 7D has one f/2.8-sensitive point (the center one), the rest are f/5.6-sensitive. The 1D X has five f/2.8 points and 20 f/4 points. The wider the baseline, the more accurate the AF. I'm sure the AI Servo algorithms are better on the 1D X as well.

Anyway we will see.

We'll see, indeed. In the mean time, it's fun to speculate!

My guess, assuming the 61-pt spec is true: one f/2.8-sensitive dual cross point (the center one), 30 f/5.6-sensitive cross points (the three vertical columns in the center and the inner columns that are f/4 on the 1D X), Zone AF but no Spot AF and no AF Area Expansion, no help from the metering sensor (which will likely be the 63-zone iFCL and not the 100K pixel RGB sensor).

So if this proves true, would you upgrade to this or would this keep you on track to get the 1DX?

I think this question is ultimately asking what type of photographer you are.

That supreme AF specifications of 1D X is simply indispensable for mission-critical photojournalists.

The rumored trim-down AF specifications of the potential 5D successor still seem to be appealing to a lot of wedding/event photographers who want (vs need) better AF (than 5D II or maybe 7D too) but might not want to pay a premium for RGB-metering-assisted AF tracking or other advanced AF features/algorithms.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

From NL:"Although the AF in the 5D2 replacement is based on the same sensor layout as the 1D X, it is a 'simplified' version."

So basically all we know is will have the AF points in the same spots as the 1DX but there is no saying that the AF sensor has to be as accurate or sensitive

Actually, we do not yet know anything. Just rumors, true or false? we have to wait and see.

 

[iaind]

Why no Spot AF? Why no spot metering linked to any selected AF point? The same reason it's not the same AF system in the 1D X - product line differentiation.

But as I stated, this is all purely speculation.

As for me, if this guess is correct, it would definitely incline me to stick with my original plan of getting the 1D X.

Totally agree.

Once specs and bodies are released its going to be a value judgement. 1DX may just edge it.

 

[steven63]

I doubt seriously Canon is going to put the same AF system in the 5dIII/x as they are in the 1dx. They made that mistake with when they put the 1d3s sensor in the 5d...absolutey killed the 3's sales.

I'd place my money on a dumbed-down system. After all, if they are marketing it towards weddings/portraits - it doesn't need the 1dx AF system.

 

[V8Beast]

Not sure how much of an issue this will be in real-world shooting situations. I'm all for having a ton of cross sensors. That said, with a 70-300L attached to my old 1DMKIIn, only the center AF point functions as a cross sensor, but it still tracks fast action like nobody's business. I'd rate it above the 7D.

 

[Loswr]

Not sure how much of an issue this will be in real-world shooting situations. I'm all for having a ton of cross sensors. That said, with a 70-300L attached to my old 1DMKIIn, only the center AF point functions as a cross sensor, but it still tracks fast action like nobody's business. I'd rate it above the 7D.

Depends on the situation. The f/2.8 points (and f/4 points, to a lesser degree) are more accurate, but also slower. So, AI Servo AF actually uses mostly f/5.6 sensor lines.

 

[wickidwombat]

Not sure how much of an issue this will be in real-world shooting situations. I'm all for having a ton of cross sensors. That said, with a 70-300L attached to my old 1DMKIIn, only the center AF point functions as a cross sensor, but it still tracks fast action like nobody's business. I'd rate it above the 7D.

Even my old 1D mk1 AF was fast and accurate. it just worked.