5D3 No Longer in Production
- Thread starter Mr. P
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pablo
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I use the kit I use in real life situations. Day in. Day out. Sneer at the anecdotal accounts of folk who actually use their kit in anger all you want.
5 years ago you were using a rebel. You have a high income that lets you buy fantasy kit. You have time to post a lot on here.
None of that makes you worthy of my estimation. Not that you are seeking it. But really, AF for video..... it really just doesn't work. It honestly doesn't.
Canon have the best live view on the market.
Thats great.
For my stills stuff or when the budgets tight enough that I use my own DLSR gear for video I'll reflect on that.
Canon have the best live view af on the market...
.
.
5 years ago you were using a rebel. You have a high income that lets you buy fantasy kit. You have time to post a lot on here.
None of that makes you worthy of my estimation. Not that you are seeking it. But really, AF for video..... it really just doesn't work. It honestly doesn't.
Canon have the best live view on the market.
Thats great.
For my stills stuff or when the budgets tight enough that I use my own DLSR gear for video I'll reflect on that.
Canon have the best live view af on the market...
.
.
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Loswr
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Not that long ago, relatively speaking, editors sneered at any photographer who chose digital over film. Everyone knew digital was no where near good enough to match film. Reflect on where those editors are today.
Times change, but it's ok if you don't change with them.
Times change, but it's ok if you don't change with them.
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pablo
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what has this to do with film? I've shot on vidicon tubes, ccd, s16, s35, had, super had, hyper had, fit, cmos?... shallow analogy...
have you ever shot any video for broadcast or commercial use?
a wavy hand subject interview?
a dramatic scene with traffic in the foreground?
you don't know what you are talking about John.
have you ever shot any video for broadcast or commercial use?
a wavy hand subject interview?
a dramatic scene with traffic in the foreground?
you don't know what you are talking about John.
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Loswr
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pablo said:
Hmmm...let's look at what I'm saying:
You're a person who shoots video. You say there's no point in AF for video shooting.
Canon is a multibillion dollar corporation that likely spends far more on market research in a couple of days than many video professionals earn in a year. Canon offers DPAF on their professional Cx00 video cameras.
You're welcome to your opinion. Canon obviously disagrees with you. We know who you believe, we know who I believe.
'Nuff said.
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pablo
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you were a bit slow coming back, so here's the answer...
Because canon do indeed know their market.
The c cameras are low end. I'm not knocking them, great images, nice to use, everything you'd reasonably want apart from back focus adjust and reasobably priced servo zoom...
But they have to appeal to untrained single users, smaller production houses, so things that any trained professional would never use, like say AWB, like say, AF, like an automatic shutter speed mode (noooooooooooooooo!) crop up, because, feasibly some rich kids might fancy themselves as a dop (haha, Nobody wants to be a cameraman anymore, all these DOPs kicking around pmsl) so if these muppets add to the units sold and loser the cost for the adults then great, but John, you don't shoot serious video, or you'd know. You might have the nicest toys, but your still new to the party.
Maybe you'll use video af and stRt calling yourself a dop... why not, it's this years trick.
Because canon do indeed know their market.
The c cameras are low end. I'm not knocking them, great images, nice to use, everything you'd reasonably want apart from back focus adjust and reasobably priced servo zoom...
But they have to appeal to untrained single users, smaller production houses, so things that any trained professional would never use, like say AWB, like say, AF, like an automatic shutter speed mode (noooooooooooooooo!) crop up, because, feasibly some rich kids might fancy themselves as a dop (haha, Nobody wants to be a cameraman anymore, all these DOPs kicking around pmsl) so if these muppets add to the units sold and loser the cost for the adults then great, but John, you don't shoot serious video, or you'd know. You might have the nicest toys, but your still new to the party.
Maybe you'll use video af and stRt calling yourself a dop... why not, it's this years trick.
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@pablo,
I don't really see when you're coming from with this issue of AF video on the dslrs. Surely the vast, vast majority of these cameras are sold to the casual video user, and they want AF, preferably AF that actually works. Many have found that for 'home movies' the dslr is wholly inferior to a handycam; the DPAF goes some way to helping with this. In fact I would say it has been welcomed by the buying public. The development of the video function as part of a dslr is of no relevance to the likes of BBC or ITN surely ?
I don't really see when you're coming from with this issue of AF video on the dslrs. Surely the vast, vast majority of these cameras are sold to the casual video user, and they want AF, preferably AF that actually works. Many have found that for 'home movies' the dslr is wholly inferior to a handycam; the DPAF goes some way to helping with this. In fact I would say it has been welcomed by the buying public. The development of the video function as part of a dslr is of no relevance to the likes of BBC or ITN surely ?
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Loswr
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Pablo's arguing that AF has no relevance for video, because he thinks that makes DPAF irrelevant, allowing him to conveniently ignore an area where Canon is more technologically advanced than other camera makers. It's his contention that Canon is behind in everything:
Of course, their dedicated phase detect AF is also the best in the industry, and if true the rumored 65-pt all cross-type AF combined with iTR in the 7DII/X is putting Canon even further ahead on PDAF. But maybe he thinks that has no relevance to still photography.
pablo said:
Of course, their dedicated phase detect AF is also the best in the industry, and if true the rumored 65-pt all cross-type AF combined with iTR in the 7DII/X is putting Canon even further ahead on PDAF. But maybe he thinks that has no relevance to still photography.
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Loswr
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Oh, and generally speaking Canon has better lenses, and more unique lens offerings. They are the only dSLR manufacturer with a radio-controlled flash system. Anyone else have a FF body that shoots 12 fps with AF between each frame?
It baffles me that people take one area in which Canon lags behind – DR at low ISO – and somehow decide that means Canon is behind across the board, doesn't innovate, and other DRivel of that sort.
It baffles me that people take one area in which Canon lags behind – DR at low ISO – and somehow decide that means Canon is behind across the board, doesn't innovate, and other DRivel of that sort.
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pablo said:
Hi Pablo,
I just noticed your posts and since you are on expert on pro video needs, can you (quickly) please explain why:
1. Why is the ~$50,000 C-Motion Lens Control System kit marketed with one of its primary features being enabling wireless autofocus of video lenses? Do you consider a $50,000 professional lens control product "low end"? Why did this list of Hollywood motion pictures use this system, were the crews not "pro enough" for you? - https://www.cmotion.eu/cms/page/cp/6/testimonials
2. Why RED's newer $20,000+ cameras include autofocus?
3. When a camera is situated in an area that will likely have dangerous debris/shrapnel entering the area where the camera is located due to getting a unique perspective on a special effects explosion or the like, would you put a cameraman in harms way just so you can feel "more pro"?
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pablo
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neuroanatomist said:
if you want the best af stills performance, you will still use the ovf for now.
one swallow does not a summer make. you don't look at something like an a7 and think canon are missing a trick somewhere? it's an open question, maybe you don't, thats fine, but Neuro is a bully, I pioed up because he slapped somebody down for a turn of phrase that didn't favour canon, his personal deity.
He has some nice kit, but tats as far as I woukd go, it doesnt earn him my respect or. the right to be so arrigant and bullish. It's a see taste back to him. i don't really care all that much.
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pablo
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Ruined said:
1) Wireless autofocus? because you want to not control focus without wires getting in the way?
is it perhaps more accurately described as manual focus operated remotely? if you have a moving subject ir moving camera, or anything between your subject and the camera af is going to goof up.
2) When red ship cameras on time that work reliably consistently I'll pay more attention to what they do. for now they are not on my radar. sorry.
3) no. i would use a video downlink and remote controlled manual kens operations. In an eos context this can be as simple as laptop tethering and using eos utility. or use a wide angle and zone focusing. or a gopro with a fixed focus lens.
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Loswr
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@Ruined & wtlloyd – the professional video gear mentioned is clearly amateurish in nature, and not nearly professional enough for a really professional pro.
Then please explain how Canon has 'catching up to do' in that area of the shop. Or any of the other areas I mentioned where Canon is the industry leader. I brought up DPAF as just one example of many to counter your asinine assertion that Canon is behind everywhere.
Mirrorless accounts for ~10% of camera sales worldwide. Sony a7 sales represent a small fraction of that small fraction. How much of a trick do you think Canon is missing?
Good job tossing a few insults my way, feel free to toss a few more if that helps you feel more manly or whatever.
pablo said:
Then please explain how Canon has 'catching up to do' in that area of the shop. Or any of the other areas I mentioned where Canon is the industry leader. I brought up DPAF as just one example of many to counter your asinine assertion that Canon is behind everywhere.
pablo said:
Mirrorless accounts for ~10% of camera sales worldwide. Sony a7 sales represent a small fraction of that small fraction. How much of a trick do you think Canon is missing?
Good job tossing a few insults my way, feel free to toss a few more if that helps you feel more manly or whatever.
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Ruined & Pablo
Civality gentlemen please!.
Red have AF because professional stills photographers use their cameras as well as moviemakers, many are shooting small video clips as well as stills for online catalogues etc.
EVERY SINGLE movie takes a wireless lens control system and most TV dramas and most commercials typically Arri or Preston although CMotion is used in Germany & North America. Auto Focus systems do exist but are virtually never used the main reason for that is two fold a. Actors move between marks and b. you may want to do splits French crews are renown for doing split tests to see if lenses are forward or back focus at given distances & stops often its done on a harp test.
Many shots are done on dollies and cranes and with smaller cameras its simply not possible to use a follow-focus most of the time hence a lens control system these can be both hard-wired and wireless and cover zoom, focus & iris.
If shots are soft trust me the focus puller takes the wrap and for that reason most dont trust AF if your using Zeiss Master Primes at T2 or faster youve got zero depth of field and regardless of the low light sensitivity of most digital film camera DOPs shoot wide open or near too often. Most of the testing time is spent marking rings to each lens and checking them on camera.
A point missed in this discussion is a full frame Canon 5d MKIII will have less apparent depth of field than say a movie camera or the 7d for a given focal lenght & aperture thats why in Super 16 or in 2/3rds everything appeared sharp and fast lenses was the only way to get creative control so comparing movie tools to the 5d MKIII is slightly a red herring unless your comparing 65 / 70mm or Vistavision.
Civality gentlemen please!.
Red have AF because professional stills photographers use their cameras as well as moviemakers, many are shooting small video clips as well as stills for online catalogues etc.
EVERY SINGLE movie takes a wireless lens control system and most TV dramas and most commercials typically Arri or Preston although CMotion is used in Germany & North America. Auto Focus systems do exist but are virtually never used the main reason for that is two fold a. Actors move between marks and b. you may want to do splits French crews are renown for doing split tests to see if lenses are forward or back focus at given distances & stops often its done on a harp test.
Many shots are done on dollies and cranes and with smaller cameras its simply not possible to use a follow-focus most of the time hence a lens control system these can be both hard-wired and wireless and cover zoom, focus & iris.
If shots are soft trust me the focus puller takes the wrap and for that reason most dont trust AF if your using Zeiss Master Primes at T2 or faster youve got zero depth of field and regardless of the low light sensitivity of most digital film camera DOPs shoot wide open or near too often. Most of the testing time is spent marking rings to each lens and checking them on camera.
A point missed in this discussion is a full frame Canon 5d MKIII will have less apparent depth of field than say a movie camera or the 7d for a given focal lenght & aperture thats why in Super 16 or in 2/3rds everything appeared sharp and fast lenses was the only way to get creative control so comparing movie tools to the 5d MKIII is slightly a red herring unless your comparing 65 / 70mm or Vistavision.
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