5D4 @ 30 MP X 7 fps --> enough upside from the 5DS for you?

[Diko]

we have to wait how the cam will perform.
however from the specs the cam is not worth an upgrade for me. as an allround camera introduced in 2016 7fps also no not seem enough. i wonder, how this cam will "survive" 4 years on the market.
since canon deliberately holds the fps down... I hope, they will pay the price for it.

I was hoping for 1080@240 and instead getting 720p@120. And having in mind that for some time already there's 720p@240 on my phone :-(((

It would be lovely to make all those beautiful bizarre slow mo's with a descent glass.

IMHO they're keeping it away on purpose.

 

[Sharlin]

we have to wait how the cam will perform.
however from the specs the cam is not worth an upgrade for me. as an allround camera introduced in 2016 7fps also no not seem enough. i wonder, how this cam will "survive" 4 years on the market.
since canon deliberately holds the fps down... I hope, they will pay the price for it.

I was hoping for 1080@240 and instead getting 720p@120. And having in mind that for some time already there's 720p@240 on my phone :-(((

It would be lovely to make all those beautiful bizarre slow mo's with a descent glass.

IMHO they're keeping it away on purpose.

I don't think you understand what opinions are (the "O" in "IMHO"). A statement of fact, whether correct or not, is not an opinion. If the statement is not backed by evidence, or at least reasonable arguments, it's still not an opinion, it's called "talking out of one's ass".

 

[rrcphoto]

so CIPA rating of 900.

what i figured, which was the rating would be around the 5D Mark III and not around the 5Ds.

I suspect this was one reason for the 7fps.

 

[ahsanford]

so CIPA rating of 900.

what i figured, which was the rating would be around the 5D Mark III and not around the 5Ds.

I suspect this was one reason for the 7fps.

I think that's more about 1 DIGIC chip than 2, but I certainly could be wrong.

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

so CIPA rating of 900.

what i figured, which was the rating would be around the 5D Mark III and not around the 5Ds.

I suspect this was one reason for the 7fps.

I think that's more about 1 DIGIC chip than 2, but I certainly could be wrong.

- A

yes, but to get 8+ fps would have required dual digics?

 

[ahsanford]

so CIPA rating of 900.

what i figured, which was the rating would be around the 5D Mark III and not around the 5Ds.

I suspect this was one reason for the 7fps.

I think that's more about 1 DIGIC chip than 2, but I certainly could be wrong.

- A

yes, but to get 8+ fps would have required dual digics?

I think so, but do not know. We don't know the throughput of this new chip, so it's only speculation.

- A

 

[Jack Douglas]

Is anyone more involved with chip fabrication to be able to delineate what functions are performed by the processors and how 2 vs. 1 exhibits itself in a comparison between say the 1DX II and the 5D4. AF (speed) must suffer significantly I assume. It would be nice if someone who really knows could illuminate us.

Jack

 

[privatebydesign]

Is anyone more involved with chip fabrication to be able to delineate what functions are performed by the processors and how 2 vs. 1 exhibits itself in a comparison between say the 1DX II and the 5D4. AF (speed) must suffer significantly I assume. It would be nice if someone who really knows could illuminate us.

Jack

The 1DX MkII has three DIGIC chips, two DIGIC 6+ for "image processing" and one DIGIC 6 for metering.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Is anyone more involved with chip fabrication to be able to delineate what functions are performed by the processors and how 2 vs. 1 exhibits itself in a comparison between say the 1DX II and the 5D4. AF (speed) must suffer significantly I assume. It would be nice if someone who really knows could illuminate us.

Jack

The 1DX MkII has three DIGIC chips, two DIGIC 6+ for "image processing" and one DIGIC 6 for metering.

Thanks. OK, I guess I actually knew that but what I want to know is how the various tasks are divied up and what that means in terms of the various camera metrics. Would the DIGIC 6 do only metering and how would that compare with what is going on in the 5D4 etc. Perhaps you can't answer this but there must be some experts out there that know more detailed information. The obvious reason for the curiosity is to try to judge as accurately as possible just how this impacts the total performance of the two cameras.

Cause I'll be buying one of them only and it's not strictly about the cost difference since I've dedicated $8K CAD to this. I'm suffering from the 20 vs. 30 syndrome right now!

Jack

 

[Click]

Are you sure about the DIGIC 6 for metering?

It's not only two DIGIC 6+ in the MK II?

 

[ahsanford]

From TDP (listed under "image processing", so this would leave out any dedicated 1DX/1DX2 metering hardware):

1DX2 = 2x DIGIC 6+ --> can handle 16 fps X 20 MP
5DS = 2x DIGIC 6 --> can handle 5 fps X 50 MP
7D2 = 2x DIGIC 6 --> can handle 10 fps X 20 MP
1DX = 2x DIGIC 5+ --> can handle 14 fps X 18 MP
5D3 = 1x DIGIC 5+ --> can handle 6 fps X 22 MP

5D4 = we presume 1x DIGIC 6+ --> can apparently handle 7 fps X 30 MP, which is a higher percentage of the 1DX2 throughput than the 5D3 was compared to 1DX. So either the Canon engineers were rate-limited with the 1DX2 for other reasons -- buffer, shutter, mirror, card write speeds, etc. -- or they found a way to squeeze more performance out of a single chip with the 5D4.

(Full disclosure: this is bush-league level performance swag; I defer to those who actually make similar products to comment on this.)

- A

 

[privatebydesign]

Are you sure about the DIGIC 6 for metering?

It's not only two DIGIC 6+ in the MK II?

Yep, pretty sure.......

It probably needs it to do AF point linked spot metering :

 

[Click]

Thank you very much for this information, pbd.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Thank you very much for this information, pbd.

Yes thanks ... but I would like more detail on the whole processor situation beyond FPS and metering. Don't expect much do I?

Jack

 

[rrcphoto]

From TDP (listed under "image processing", so this would leave out any dedicated 1DX/1DX2 metering hardware):

1DX2 = 2x DIGIC 6+ --> can handle 16 fps X 20 MP
5DS = 2x DIGIC 6 --> can handle 5 fps X 50 MP
7D2 = 2x DIGIC 6 --> can handle 10 fps X 20 MP
1DX = 2x DIGIC 5+ --> can handle 14 fps X 18 MP
5D3 = 1x DIGIC 5+ --> can handle 6 fps X 22 MP

5D4 = we presume 1x DIGIC 6+ --> can apparently handle 7 fps X 30 MP, which is a higher percentage of the 1DX2 throughput than the 5D3 was compared to 1DX. So either the Canon engineers were rate-limited with the 1DX2 for other reasons -- buffer, shutter, mirror, card write speeds, etc. -- or they found a way to squeeze more performance out of a single chip with the 5D4.

(Full disclosure: this is bush-league level performance swag; I defer to those who actually make similar products to comment on this.)

- A

IMO .. I think people forget that soon the 1DX will hit fps limits in AE/AF modes. there's only so fast apertures can open and close.

 

[Diko]

IMHO they're keeping it away on purpose.

I don't think you understand what opinions are (the "O" in "IMHO"). A statement of fact, whether correct or not, is not an opinion. If the statement is not backed by evidence, or at least reasonable arguments, it's still not an opinion, it's called "talking out of one's ass".

Oh... Did I hurt your feelings? Someone is saying something against your beloved camera vendor? I am so sorry NOT! However I'd love to share a good advice: Please try to maintain a "bon ton" ;-)

Because if you were long enough around you would probably knew better what I meant. Or perhaps your English needs more time to practice, since AFAIK and according to my humble understanding "OPINION" not necessarily is based on fact or knowledge.

Anyways, even the NX1, or my stupid phone have 1080p@120fps and 720p@240fps. Now CANON failing to provide even the 1080p@120fps is kind of weird. Illogical except the case with profit motives. Why not hold it for 5D mk5 like any other feature illogically missing like the USB 3.1? That is something I am suggesting as probable on this forum from almost the beginning I am registered (in 2011, not the end of 2015 like you).

Ergo in the context of how CANON will "survive" 4 years on the market with the 5D series (the first video DSLR, remember) that are expected to satisfy young amateur film-makers-wanna-bes is quite strange from my POV not to include it.

So what's your excuse... I mean story... I mean argument for "talking out of one's ass"? ;-)

 

[Mikehit]

Ergo in the context of how CANON will "survive" 4 years on the market with the 5D series (the first video DSLR, remember) that are expected to satisfy young amateur film-makers-wanna-bes

You are making the assumption that Canon see them as an important part of their market.

 

[rrcphoto]

IMHO they're keeping it away on purpose.

I don't think you understand what opinions are (the "O" in "IMHO"). A statement of fact, whether correct or not, is not an opinion. If the statement is not backed by evidence, or at least reasonable arguments, it's still not an opinion, it's called "talking out of one's ass".

Oh... Did I hurt your feelings? Someone is saying something against your beloved camera vendor? I am so sorry NOT! However I'd love to share a good advice: Please try to maintain a "bon ton" ;-)

Because if you were long enough around you would probably knew better what I meant. Or perhaps your English needs more time to practice, since AFAIK and according to my humble understanding "OPINION" not necessarily is based on fact or knowledge.

Anyways, even the NX1, or my stupid phone have 1080p@120fps and 720p@240fps. Now CANON failing to provide even the 1080p@120fps is kind of weird. Illogical except the case with profit motives. Why not hold it for 5D mk5 like any other feature illogically missing like the USB 3.1? That is something I am suggesting as probable on this forum from almost the beginning I am registered (in 2011, not the end of 2015 like you).

Ergo in the context of how CANON will "survive" 4 years on the market with the 5D series (the first video DSLR, remember) that are expected to satisfy young amateur film-makers-wanna-bes is quite strange from my POV not to include it.

So what's your excuse... I mean story... I mean argument for "talking out of one's ass"? ;-)

you kind of forget the REAL market of the 5D .. it's a professional camera with a nod towards video.

it's first and foremost a stills camera.

now if you manage to wrap your brain around that, perhaps you can talk sensibility about something that right now it appears you know really little about.

fun fact.. the 5D III vastly outsells any A series camera on amazon.com (sony's major A series market) and BCN (domestic).

so it may just be that canon considers the video core.. really not that important.

here's another fun fact.

even with most of video going to mirrorless over the past 3 years.. in EU and NA .. the marketshares in those two countries hasn't changed between dslr' and mirrorless.

Perhaps .. and JUST perhaps.. it's far less important than what you think it is.

and why you are whining about USB 3.1 perhaps you can explain to me what the lane throughput of DiGiC is to allow 3.1 and clearly canon is deliberately holding it back because "you know this".

even though the amount of cameras that support USB 3.1 are none, and even the amount of cameras that support USB 3.0 are shockingly low.

 

[Diko]

....you kind of forget the REAL market of the 5D .. it's a professional camera with a nod towards video.
it's first and foremost a stills camera.

True. It's for stills but I would bet that 1/3 of the cameras sold from 5DM2 series is thanks to its cheap-for-its quality video features. And the fact it was first of its kind.

now if you manage to wrap your brain around that, perhaps you can talk sensibility about something that right now it appears you know really little about.
fun fact.. the 5D III vastly outsells any A series camera on amazon.com (sony's major A series market) and BCN (domestic).

I see nothing fun about it. It is widely known as well as the fact that for some time now 5D is the most used camera as well according to flickr exif stats.

so it may just be that canon considers the video core.. really not that important.

Depends on how you define that in "that important". It's a matter of perspective. If the way you see it is ONLY for stills. Fine with me.

But if you ask me why a stupid 4K camcorder that can record up to 240fps in 1080p For $899US
could do better what is technically possible for a camera that probably will cost somewhere betwen $3k-$4k I don't know.

You say camera for stills, not that important to be different, to be better, to be innovative. Why you keep insisting on 5D being for stills ONLY? Mainly? Which one it's gonna be? Cause if it's for photos (only or mainly) why even bother implementing 4k?

If you read carefully the whole history you would notice it all began with:

...as an allround camera introduced in 2016 7fps also no not seem enough. i wonder, how this cam will "survive" 4 years on the market.
since canon deliberately holds the fps down... I hope, they will pay the price for it.

I was hoping for 1080@240 and instead getting 720p@120. And having in mind that for some time already there's 720p@240 on my phone :-(((

IMHO they're keeping it away on purpose.

Now this catch phrase is obviously pissing you all off.
You don't seem to mind and hope for 8 fps, but passively accepted that. Because you KNOW (for sure) CANON couldn't do better. ;-) where I only expressed humble opinion that perhaps they might could actually do.

here's another fun fact.

What's with you and these fun facts :/

even with most of video going to mirrorless over the past 3 years.. in EU and NA .. the market shares in those two countries hasn't changed between dslr' and mirrorless.

Let's make things clear?
Where are the numbers for that claim of yours? And what exactly do you mean by "countries"? Continents or political unions... or actually both?!?

Perhaps .. and JUST perhaps.. it's far less important than what you think it is.

Why? Why you came to such a conclusion?

I said I wanted. I said that CANON is not doing. And something not that important as the 1080p@240fps is what the majority of current model smartphones already have.

You see? I come to the conclusion that Canon is making mediocre statements about the video by assembling the known features in 5Dm4.
No CFast, No 1080p Slow Mo. But 4K - sure, why not.

and why you are whining about USB 3.1 perhaps you can explain to me what the lane throughput of DiGiC is to allow 3.1 and clearly canon is deliberately holding it back because "you know this".

What exactly did I claim to know? Feel free to copy/paste it here. What is wrong with you people? I said OPINION!

I said 3.1 just to name one. But you are right. Instead take any other missing feature - You name it: Cfast, tilty-flippy screen, IBIS (really even hate the idea) and the magical higher FPS.

Now my turn to ask questions:

now if you manage to wrap your brain around that, perhaps you can talk sensibility

Why do you talk to me like that? Have I done something wrong to you? Or you are the same person that wrote "talking out of one's ass".

Cause that makes me think that here there are CANON fanatics or people with emotional intellect of a little boy that need things be clearly explained. I hope you'll manage to follow.

Most of my equipment is from CANON. If you bother to check I have already written that 5DM4 is great DSLR that I intend to buy.

That in NO WAY however would change my OPINION that CANON could do better. You yourself wished to have 8fps. And when I express the idea that CANON MIGHT have hold it back....
"Good Lord! That's impossible. This guy must prove with arguments why is that so"

Now I make a little nightmare for you should you own 5Dm3: I was planning to buy it. Then I refrained. Because 5Dm3 no matter how many units sold world wide for me didn't had the corresponding value for its price. CANON SHOULD have performed better for that amount of money they wanted back then.

And that is the idea of OPINION! Now I made NO claim about CANON. I strictly wrote IMHO. These are my humble believes and they do not necessarily match everybody else. And I don't expect it to be that way.

But what I do expect is a more civilized way of you (or anybody else) to try to persuade me in your own believes by sharing your opinion. I expect people to emotionally understand that not everyone is willing to accept that CANON is generating the best value-for-money products even when this same people have invested already heavily in CANON glass and other equipment. We all make our decisions and commit according to our believes and circumstances.

 

[rrcphoto]

....you kind of forget the REAL market of the 5D .. it's a professional camera with a nod towards video.
it's first and foremost a stills camera.

True. It's for stills but I would bet that 1/3 of the cameras sold from 5DM2 series is thanks to its cheap-for-its quality video features. And the fact it was first of its kind.

actually it was the second of it's kind .. and canon has been rumored at least to have said that video was researched even after the 5D Mark II has not being significantly important to the camera.

It made headlines, but headlines don't necessarily mean sales.

Canon after the 5D series also came out with Cinema EOS which has proper ergonomics for serious video, versus the hack which is to make DSLR's shoot video.

Things like IBIS will never end up on a canon DSLR .. for either legal reasons or even practical.

and your phone? you're comparing a 1/1.7" sensor to a full frame sensor in terms of heat and performance? I'm curious.. why didn't the A7RII or the A7S shoot 1080p240 if it was so easy?

as far as 8fps - I knew for instance, that the canon would not have the battery life go down to the number in which the 5Ds was .. I knew that before that was released. Was I right in my assumption? damned right. it's CIPA 900 versus the dual processor 5Ds which is 700.

and for some reason you expected it to have the same (or better) video performance as the 1Dx Mark II?

I'm curious how you expect of course that the 1DX Mark II's three DiGiC processors *AND* a 30WH battery and a massive heatsink and heat pipe can all fit in a body that is 1/2 of the size...

I'm VERY critical on things in which canon *should* be able to do .. but this love of all things video on a DSLR.. really .. get over it. Canon's never going to look at dominating that market .. because you know what? there's far more people that want it for stills.

I have no problems about bitching about actual things that canon could have done practically. The electronic EVF hotshoe that they ALREADY have. that actually has worth just beyond the aspect of video and is a huge miss for the 5D Mark IV.

and where I get my information from? CIPA.