5DIII will come

[wickidwombat]

even shooting low key in a studio the 5Dii CANNOT get focus lock with any point other than the center point and even then its pretty sketchy decent light it seems ok. I haveent tried shooting any action with it yet in AI servo, i has the mode so i should try it out and see how it performs I guess in decent light it might work but I would doubt its capability in low light.

 

[briansquibb]

When shooting wide open I always have AF on servo that way if I or the subject moves then focus is kept. Servo mode on the 5DII is good enough to track most things moving - it is the initial lock on which is the slowest, once locked it stays locked.

I think the issue here is that the 5DII AF is continually being talked down as if it is useless. My point is that, yes, it has its limitations that can be worked around. It is better than the original 5D but not as good as the 7D and not worthy of comparison to the 1D4.

When the 9 point came out it was considered to be good. Now if it was good then it is still good today. However what has changed is that in the last 3 years AF has moved on and improved significantly so that now people expect more and are unable to work their way round the 9 point. My first piece of advice is always that the shooter should to use servo and pre focus as the default. The expectations now are that the DSLR should be as easy to use as a P&S - anything less than that and the camera is considered useless. This is an attitude that is general across many areas of technology.

I have moved onto the 1D4 and now consider the 7D AF as being poor - yet everyone is still raving about the 7D having moved there from 9 point system. I get significantly more AF misses on the 7D than I do on the 1D4

I would be happy if the 5DIII had 1D4 AF and 12800 iso. More pixels are not really needed as the dark side has shown - to be honest a ff version of the 1D4 sensor would be sufficient and cheap enough as there is no new technology involved.

 

[briansquibb]

When the 9 point came out it was considered to be good. Now if it was good then it is still good today. However what has changed is that in the last 3 years AF has moved on and improved significantly so that now people expect more and are unable to work their way round the 9 point. My first piece of advice is always that the shooter should to use servo and pre focus as the default. The expectations now are that the DSLR should be as easy to use as a P&S - anything less than that and the camera is considered useless. This is an attitude that is general across many areas of technology.

It would be something to see one of these generation Y photographers handle a film SLR with fewer than 5 AF points.

I dont remember my Pentax Spotmatic having 5 AF points I do still have some superb prints from the 70's though

 

[Loswr]

I would be happy if the 5DIII had 1D4 AF and 12800 iso.

But, it won't. It will be lucky to have 7D AF.

It would be something to see one of these generation Y photographers handle a film SLR with fewer than 5 AF points.

I sure would have loved a film SLR with ANY autofocus points, but I used film SLRs before autofocus was a reality. Split prism and microprism collar all the way.

 

[briansquibb]

I would be happy if the 5DIII had 1D4 AF and 12800 iso.

But, it won't. It will be lucky to have 7D AF.

I expressed my wish.

You are so certain that you know what Canon are not going to deliver - please explain what you base that assertion on and the source of any facts/rumours

 

[handsomerob]

I would be happy if the 5DIII had 1D4 AF and 12800 iso.

But, it won't. It will be lucky to have 7D AF.

I agree that 5DIII would be lucky to have even 7D's AF. Here is why:

5DIII will be aimed at studio/landscape photographers. Of course they deserve a decent AF system with their camera, say one that is between 60D's and 7D's AF. But not more than that or Canon will shoot themselves with their own weapon. 1DIV's AF is way too advanced for a camera that won't even need it. This would also mess the Canon lineup. 1Dx sales could suffer, 7D's or 7DII's sales would suffer although they are aimed at totally different markets. Heck, even 5DIII's sales would suffer because of it's increased price (highly advanced AF would obviously cost more). Why would Canon take such a risk?

They would not want to put all killer features in one camera and sell it for $2500... Why would they? They want you to buy the flagship model for that, and for a price. They would want to keep a good distinction between all their cameras to ensure that they all bring in the maximum cash. Which I think is only fair given the R&D they are putting in their different products. I know these cameras are already different in so many ways (sensor size, pixel count, low-light capabilities, burst shooting, etc) but AF system has always been the key feature to keep them really separated.

People expect better AF in 5DIII and right so, 5DIII will have better AF. Because Canon would want the 5DII users to upgrade to the new model and they know that only better IQ/low-light performance in the new model won't cut it for many of us. So a slightly better AF is all they will offer.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[K-amps]

I would be happy if the 5DIII had 1D4 AF and 12800 iso.

But, it won't. It will be lucky to have 7D AF.

I agree that 5DIII would be lucky to have even 7D's AF. Here is why:

5DIII will be aimed at studio/landscape photographers. Of course they deserve a decent AF system with their camera, say one that is between 60D's and 7D's AF. But not more than that or Canon will shoot themselves with their own weapon. 1DIV's AF is way too advanced for a camera that won't even need it. This would also mess the Canon lineup. 1Dx sales could suffer, 7D's or 7DII's sales would suffer although they are aimed at totally different markets. Heck, even 5DIII's sales would suffer because of it's increased price (highly advanced AF would obviously cost more). Why would Canon take such a risk?

They would not want to put all killer features in one camera and sell it for $2500... Why would they? They want you to buy the flagship model for that, and for a price. They would want to keep a good distinction between all their cameras to ensure that they all bring in the maximum cash. Which I think is only fair given the R&D they are putting in their different products. I know these cameras are already different in so many ways (sensor size, pixel count, low-light capabilities, burst shooting, etc) but AF system has always been the key feature to keep them really separated.

People expect better AF in 5DIII and right so, 5DIII will have better AF. Because Canon would want the 5DII users to upgrade to the new model and they know that only better IQ/low-light performance in the new model won't cut it for many of us. So a slightly better AF is all they will offer.

Just my 2 cents...

Granted... if they want to stunt the 5d3, remove the video capture features and let people use the 60D or 300C etc for Video... Give us a decent Still Camera with at least 5-6 fps, 5AEB bracketing, decent AF and ISO... Hopefully this is a fair trade-off.

 

[briansquibb]

When the 5D3 comes out the 7D style AF will be the worst apart from the 1100D. I cant imaging Canon believing that the newest top semi pro still camera would sell when saddled with the worst AF.

I believe that the 5DIII will have AF at LEAST the equal of the 7D else it will never sell

 

[Loswr]

You are so certain that you know what Canon are not going to deliver - please explain what you base that assertion on and the source of any facts/rumours

Certain? Not at all, merely speculating. But the speculation is based on Canon's history of extensive re-use of AF systems (e.g. one sensor used in 20D then 30D then all xxxD's since the 400D and also in the 1100D, 40D's sensor used through 60D, 5D's sensor reused in 5DII, etc.). Only the 1-series cameras have historically gotten AF system updates with each generation. Also, the use of AF to differientate the lines. And admittedly, my pessimistic and cynical nature probably plays a role in my thinking that the 5DIII will have a 'hobbled' AF...

 

[Loswr]

When the 5D3 comes out the 7D style AF will be the worst apart from the 1100D. I cant imaging Canon believing that the newest top semi pro still camera would sell when saddled with the worst AF.

The 7D's 19-pt AF will be worse than the 60D's 9-pt AF? How do you figure that?

Time will tell. Would you have predicted that they'd release a 1-series body where they took away the ability to AF with the center point at f/8? I would not have guess that one, but they made an intentional and conscious decision to weaken the AF system of a new pro body relative to it's predecessors. If they'll do that, a weak 5DIII AF should not come as a surprise.

 

[briansquibb]

When the 5D3 comes out the 7D style AF will be the worst apart from the 1100D. I cant imaging Canon believing that the newest top semi pro still camera would sell when saddled with the worst AF.

The 7D's 19-pt AF will be worse than the 60D's 9-pt AF? How do you figure that?

Time will tell. Would you have predicted that they'd release a 1-series body where they took away the ability to AF with the center point at f/8? I would not have guess that one, but they made an intentional and conscious decision to weaken the AF system of a new pro body relative to it's predecessors. If they'll do that, a weak 5DIII AF should not come as a surprise.

Do you think that the current crop cameras will be around when the 5D3 is released? I dont think so

I think the F8 change was Canon pushing people onto faster lens. Removing F8 probably had the effect of improving the 5.6 only tracking

 

[brando72]

OK I have two 7D's. Their AF is better than the 5DII - but not that much better contrary to the word on the street. There may be exceptions like peripheral points but most people use the 2.8 point in the centre

Well, yes...on the 5DII I use the center AF point, because that's the only one worthy of being called an AF point. The 7D's other 18 points all work just about as well as the center point. But with a fast prime like the 85L, autofocus-recompose is not optimal, since it results in OOF shots - so, I'd really like to use a peripheral point for that. Instead, it's Eg-S and MF.

Neuro,

Thanks for all the informative knowledge you provide. Regarding, using a 5dm2 to take a portrait of my daughter (hypothetical) Assuming 5dm2 and 85L 1.2 lens, why is using auto-focus (center point) and then recomposing not optimal? Why will the shots be OOF? Another words, if i lock focus on daughter's eye and then recompose shot, what is the reason it may produce an OOF shot? How do you correct this problem? Is this a function of the narrow dof at 1.2, the focusing system, etc. If you stop down the 85 1.2 1 or 2 stops, does this change the parameters? I'm new and just trying to learn.

Best.

 

[Loswr]

Do you think that the current crop cameras will be around when the 5D3 is released? I dont think so

I think we'll see a 5DIII before we see a 7DII.

 

[Loswr]

Regarding, using a 5dm2 to take a portrait of my daughter (hypothetical) Assuming 5dm2 and 85L 1.2 lens, why is using auto-focus (center point) and then recomposing not optimal? Why will the shots be OOF? Another words, if i lock focus on daughter's eye and then recompose shot, what is the reason it may produce an OOF shot? How do you correct this problem? Is this a function of the narrow dof at 1.2, the focusing system, etc. If you stop down the 85 1.2 1 or 2 stops, does this change the parameters? I'm new and just trying to learn.

Basically because when you recompose, the straight-line distance between the point on which you focused and the point at which the camera is ultimately aimed are different, so you end up focusing behind the intended focal plane. If you stop down a bit, the DoF gets deeper and that will mask this type of error. For a more detailed explanation of the issue, read this linked article.

 

[briansquibb]

Regarding, using a 5dm2 to take a portrait of my daughter (hypothetical) Assuming 5dm2 and 85L 1.2 lens, why is using auto-focus (center point) and then recomposing not optimal? Why will the shots be OOF? Another words, if i lock focus on daughter's eye and then recompose shot, what is the reason it may produce an OOF shot? How do you correct this problem? Is this a function of the narrow dof at 1.2, the focusing system, etc. If you stop down the 85 1.2 1 or 2 stops, does this change the parameters? I'm new and just trying to learn.

Basically because when you recompose, the straight-line distance between the point on which you focused and the point at which the camera is ultimately aimed are different, so you end up focusing behind the intended focal plane. If you stop down a bit, the DoF gets deeper and that will mask this type of error. For a more detailed explanation of the issue, read this linked article.

+1

That why the old school togs use manual focus - and why they are fine with Zeis lens

 

[briansquibb]

Do you think that the current crop cameras will be around when the 5D3 is released? I dont think so

I think we'll see a 5DIII before we see a 7DII.

I was thinking more of the replacement for the 60D and 600D having 7D style AF, perhaps fewer but all 2.8 AF points. This would match with the iFCL metering of the current bodies

 

[handsomerob]

Do you think that the current crop cameras will be around when the 5D3 is released? I dont think so

I think we'll see a 5DIII before we see a 7DII.

+1

5DIII should normally be the next in line along with a DIGIC V Rebel (650D?).
Then probably 7DII, 70D, 700D in that order, all three using similar sensors, if not the exact same one.
Maybe still a chance 7DII will be APS-H? Who knows... Then 70D could be released before the 7DII.

IMO, they will develop a new AF system for the 5DIII (around 15 points, say, 11 of them being cross type) which would then be trickled down and modified slightly for the 70D and maybe the 700D.
Then they could use 7D's AF in the 5DIV, 80D, 800D. It will still be more than capable in 2-3 years.

Just thinking out loud

 

[traveller]

Heck, even 5DIII's sales would suffer because of it's increased price (highly advanced AF would obviously cost more). Why would Canon take such a risk?

Its increased price? What, like the D700 was significantly more expensive than the 5D MkII? Higher production cost and lower profit margins are more likely, as well as the fact that they'd risk 1D X sales.

I'm not going to revisit old ground (I think that Neuro and I will have to agree to disagree for now), but I would predict that the 5D MkIII will have the 7D's 19pt AF system. My reasoning is that it's inferior enough to the 1D X AF system, already developed (hence no R&D expenditure), and is used on the 7D; thus it would become Canon's new mid-market standard.

 

[Loswr]

I was thinking more of the replacement for the 60D and 600D having 7D style AF, perhaps fewer but all 2.8 AF points. This would match with the iFCL metering of the current bodies

All f/2.8 points? That would be a huge departure. No Canon body except for the 1D X has more than one f/2.8-sensitive AF point (always the center one), and the 1D X has 5 of them (in a vertical row at the center).
[/quote]

I'm not going to revisit old ground (I think that Neuro and I will have to agree to disagree for now), but I would predict that the 5D MkIII will have the 7D's 19pt AF system. My reasoning is that it's inferior enough to the 1D X AF system, already developed (hence no R&D expenditure), and is used on the 7D; thus it would become Canon's new mid-market standard.

I will admit that it's possible that the 5DIII will use the 7D-type AF, but you seem to be suggesting they'll re-use the actual AF sensor from the 7D, without compensating for the larger frame. If they compensate for the larger frame, it means developing a new sensor. If they don't, it means the 5DIII would have more AF points, and better ones, but the area coverage would be even less than that of the 5DII, as you can see in the attached image (5DII in blue, 7D in black). Canon has expressed a willingness to take things away from new models, as discussed above with f/8 issue. But the AF area coverage of the 5DII was already not a strong point. When they released the 5DII, they touted the fact that the horizontal point spread was the same as the 1DsIII, conveniently ignoring the fact that the vertical spread was a full row shorter. The 7D's AF sensor on the 5DII would mean the loss of a horizontal row, as well.

 

[te4o]

Regarding, using a 5dm2 to take a portrait of my daughter (hypothetical) Assuming 5dm2 and 85L 1.2 lens, why is using auto-focus (center point) and then recomposing not optimal? Why will the shots be OOF? Another words, if i lock focus on daughter's eye and then recompose shot, what is the reason it may produce an OOF shot? How do you correct this problem? Is this a function of the narrow dof at 1.2, the focusing system, etc. If you stop down the 85 1.2 1 or 2 stops, does this change the parameters? I'm new and just trying to learn.

Basically because when you recompose, the straight-line distance between the point on which you focused and the point at which the camera is ultimately aimed are different, so you end up focusing behind the intended focal plane. If you stop down a bit, the DoF gets deeper and that will mask this type of error. For a more detailed explanation of the issue, read this linked article.

+1

That why the old school togs use manual focus - and why they are fine with Zeis lens

I like old school and I like Zeiss glass especially on Ia 5D2 for this and the above reasons. Nevertheless what I'd do with your daughters portrait and an ultra thin DOF is point the centre AF at the eyes and keep the shutter going in spray and pray (that's why the new cam needs a little bit faster FPS). Then pick the one you like most and best in focus and crop them - recompose after the shot...