6D+7Dii Vs 5D mkiii

[Sabaki]

My 500D, noble beast that she is, needs to be retired.

Her AF isn't sufficient when trying to catch quicker birds in flight and when it comes to low light photography, anything over ISO 800 affects image quality.

So I decided, that I wanted two cameras to replace her and set my sights on the 6D for the full frame goodness and 7Dii (yes, I know it's not out yet ) for frames per second, AF system and so on.

But a friend is now messing with my mind. His advise? Get the 5Diii instead.

His contention is that the 5Diii will give me more bells and whistles than the 6D offers and provides sufficient resolution that would allow me to crop an image to equal the 1.6 "zoom" of a crop body.

But I'm not so sure that cropping an image shot at 400mm (FF) would give me the "fill" of a 640mm (APS-C) without negatively affecting image quality.

What would you guys do? If the 7Dii isn't announced this year, I may go for the 70D instead.

I'm really in need of some convincing that the full frame can replace a crop body.

Thanks in advance

 

[pablo]

Okay, if you were going to go full frame you would also need to budget for a replacement for your 10-22, so something like a 16-35 f2.8 or f4, or a 17-40 f4... in order to retain the same coverage. A 1.4 tc would take up the slack elsewhere if you weren't too keen to crop.

Nobody can give you any advice about the 7D2 as it isn't here yet.

I personally find having multiply bodies handy, but then I do 2 & 3 camera video shoots..

Your reasons seem to be AF performance and low light performance... the 5D3 is the most resounding tick and I anticipate would be cheaper than a 6D + 7D2, although nobody can be certain. The 5D3 is also a known quantity. Even if the 7D2 came out tomorrow, I would wait at least 3 months before buying. You'll pay less and get the early bugs ironed out.

My 7D never ran that well until fw2 which was about 2 years into my ownership of it (I actually bought a T2i because I couldn't rely on the 7D with Sandisk Extreme UDMA cards for video, a problem canon denied then quietly fixed)

 

[Random Orbits]

There have been several threads in the forum showing that the difference in IQ between a reach limited 5DIII is not that different from the 7D. At the lowest ISOs, the 7D has the advantage, and the 5DIII has the advantage at high ISOs. The wildcard is that we don't know how much better IQ will be in the 7DII.

Perhaps a different but just as important question, is how much total reach do you want/need? 400mm? 600mm? The TDP comparison below shows that the Tamron on a FF at 500mm will beat a 100-400 on a crop at 400mm. At 600mm, the 100-400 on a crop will pull ahead.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=929&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=0&LensComp=113&CameraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=7&APIComp=2

How often will you use 600mm and crop at that focal length? If it's a lot, then it might be worth getting the 6D/7DII combo. But if not, then the 5DIII should be just fine. There is some value in having a single set of gear rather than having to swap lenses/bodies.

 

[Tugela]

The bigger question will be what IQ will be like in the 5D mark 4 when it is released in February next year. If you are going to make a big investment (5D3s are not cheap and are going to be obsolete in the near future), it makes more sense to get a cheap Rebel to tide you over for a few months, and then get the latest prosumer flagship when it comes out.

 

[dgatwood]

His contention is that the 5Diii will give me more bells and whistles than the 6D offers and provides sufficient resolution that would allow me to crop an image to equal the 1.6 "zoom" of a crop body.

Remember that the megapixel count varies approximately with the square of the magnification, because each dimension is divided by 1.6. A Canon APS-C sensor is about 22.2mm x 14.8mm, or about 328.58 square mm. A Canon APS sensor is about 36mm x 24mm, or about 864 square mm, which is a factor of about 2.63.

The 22.3 MP resolution translates into about 8.5 megapixels, which is way short of your existing crop body's 15 MP resolution. If you were upgrading from a Rebel XT or older, maybe, but....

 

[RustyTheGeek]

If you take everything else out of the equation, Purchase Price, IQ, FL etc then you are left with personal choice and habits. Do you like owning photo equipment?

Using a crop sensor for reach is much easier than manually cropping individual images. Having two bodies has its advantages and it also has some disadvantages. You have a backup body and more choices with focal lengths, etc. It's also fun to have a brand new camera, it's twice as fun to have two! (LOL) ;D But when you are walking out the door, sometimes it's a headache comparing the two bodies, lenses, etc to decide which camera is best to take with which lenses if you just want to take a single camera. It's a mental exercise keeping the two bodies straight in your head with regard to best uses, etc. But if you have a FF body to go with the crop body, you can concentrate on higher quality EF lenses and avoid EF-S lenses. Usually, the only reason to buy EF-S lenses (for me anyway) is to get more width on a crop sensor and having a FF body will eliminate that need. If the batteries are the same, you won't have to double up on that. You may have to buy more memory cards though.

IMHO, both camera scenarios are going to work great. Either the 6D + 7D2 or the single 5D3 will be great. If you can afford it, rent the 6D and the 5D3 now and compare them. That will help you decide about the FF body part of the equation. If the 5D3 isn't to your liking for BIF shots, etc then it's pretty clear that the new 7D2 is the body for you along with the 6D for FF use. I have both the 5D3 and 6D and they both are excellent. Don't sell the 6D short based on what some people say. Try it and decide for yourself.

 

[Clik]

If you take everything else out of the equation, Purchase Price, IQ, FL etc then you are left with personal choice and habits. Do you like owning photo equipment?
-----
I have both the 5D3 and 6D and they both are excellent. Don't sell the 6D short based on what some people say. Try it and decide for yourself.

with your expertise please throw in some light to clear a similar confusion. I have a 6D and I like the camera, but these days my keeper rate is far below 50%. My kid is now 15 months and I am not able to focus quickly to capture her actions or to keep up with the pace. Photos are perfect when I can nail the focus with center point but I am finding it difficult to always work with the center point.
I wanted to upgrade to 5D3 but have no idea on how much improvement would it be for my scenario (other than kid it would be mostly Portraits n Nature). With Canon refurbished in stock for 5D3, I think I can get the body for $2500 (10% Loyalty) . But reading this forum posts I am confused if I should wait for 5D4 next yr beginning or 7D2 next month (Budget will be another constraint)... thanks for your time

 

[Frodo]

An important question is: do you want 2 bodies or 1?
I went to Antarctica a couple of years ago. I went for a 5DII and 7D for less than the price of a 5DIII. I needed to have two bodies as I could not risk one failing. I also needed the extra reach that the 7D provided on my 400 f5.6. By the way that's a good BIF combination, but you have to maintain high shutter speeds for sharpness. In my view, the 400/7D is sharper than 400/cropped 5DII.
Now I'm back home, I hardly use the 7D other than for watersports photography and when I do events when two cameras are handy. There are times when I miss the better focusing of the 7D (especially with lateral AF points when shooting portraits wide open), but the quality of the 7D files are not a touch near those from the 5DII. So now I'd like the 5DIII as a single camera!
But on balance, I prefer the two camera set up. Roll on the next Antarctica trip!

 

[mackguyver]

I would recommend going with the 5D Mark IV.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

If you take everything else out of the equation, Purchase Price, IQ, FL etc then you are left with personal choice and habits. Do you like owning photo equipment?
-----
I have both the 5D3 and 6D and they both are excellent. Don't sell the 6D short based on what some people say. Try it and decide for yourself.

with your expertise please throw in some light to clear a similar confusion. I have a 6D and I like the camera, but these days my keeper rate is far below 50%. My kid is now 15 months and I am not able to focus quickly to capture her actions or to keep up with the pace. Photos are perfect when I can nail the focus with center point but I am finding it difficult to always work with the center point.
I wanted to upgrade to 5D3 but have no idea on how much improvement would it be for my scenario (other than kid it would be mostly Portraits n Nature). With Canon refurbished in stock for 5D3, I think I can get the body for $2500 (10% Loyalty) . But reading this forum posts I am confused if I should wait for 5D4 next yr beginning or 7D2 next month (Budget will be another constraint)... thanks for your time

Hi Clik,

I think there are many variables to consider with your issue. Which lens, how much light, technique, etc. The simple answer to your question would be to rent or borrow another 6D and/or a 5D3 and see if your situation changes for the better using the same lens, etc. If you fail to detect a significant improvement, something else might be going on. I think it's critical to determine where your problem truly lies by ruling out assumptions before you start shopping to spend a lot of money and possibly be disappointed.

In general, my 6D doesn't focus quite as fast as my 5D3 but it's not a huge difference and it doesn't hamper normal use for me. (I use center point focus on all my cameras.) Have you considered using AI Servo to see if it improves your AF performance and keeper rate? I'll help however I can but I just want to assure you that while I find the 5D3 is a better AF performer for moving subjects, sports, etc, I don't think the 6D is total dog either. Chasing kids is tough with any camera! There's more to AF performance than just the camera. I suspect this could be an lens issue or something else. The 6D is actually a BETTER performer in low light situations and any camera will struggle to focus depending on the available light. Indoors can sometimes seem to be pretty well lit but the camera doesn't always agree. Are you having trouble with your keeper rate indoors?

 

[Clik]

Thanks for your advice. I will try to rent a 5D3 to see the difference before I decide to buy it. I was excited to see the refurbished in stock after a long time and get the price down to $2500.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Thanks for your advice. I will try to rent a 5D3 to see the difference before I decide to buy it. I was excited to see the refurbished in stock after a long time and get the price down to $2500.

If you get a chance, share more of the story. Which lens? Indoor or outdoor shooting? AF mode? Are you moving with the child or are you stationary? Panning and chasing a small child is a challenge for any camera to AF. Anytime the camera moves while the subject is moving it makes the challenge much greater than following a moving subject with a still camera. I'm just trying to imagine the situation with a small child.

 

[Dylan777]

I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.

 

[monkey44]

QUOTE ... "5D3s are not cheap and are going to be obsolete in the near future"

Obsolete? Why so? That is one fine camera, and just because a new version comes on the market, doesn't obsolete the prior version. I shot with a 30D until I bought a 5DM3 six months ago ... so, count between the 30D up to the 70D and the other opportunities to buy cameras that 'should have made 30D obsolete' didn't ...

TO - OP, the 6D is a great camera, a 6D and a 7D (7D11) would make a fine package, but if I were thinking only one camera, no question 5DM3 ... if you can afford it. It will be a fine shooter long after other cameras have advanced some technology -- but as photographers, we need to understand cameras will evolve, and once we buy a model that works, use it until it will not do the job for you anymore -- forget about GAS ... The technology is not always as big a deal to anyone except the 'tech geeks' (no offense) -- and what really matters is the image or print that you want to produce -- if you do it successfully with a 30D or a 5DM3, or the 1D family, no one can tell where it came from once that print is sitting there and waiting to gain the "admiring eyes" -- what comes before and after that is just numbers...

I shoot with a 5DM3 and a 7D, but find the 5DM3 much more versatile and it gets most of my workout now, the 7D coming into play for specific shots - when reach or speed helps ...

 

[StudentOfLight]

I have the 5D-III and 6D and they are a good complement to each other, but here are some of the differences between these cameras that spring to mind:

Why someone might consider the 6D:
Slighty better image quality at the pixel level (DR, Color sensitivity, Tonal range)
Lower noise at high ISO
Centre focus point works better in much-lower-light conditions
A better silent shutter
Interchangeable focus screens (Eg-A II, Eg-D, Eg-S)
Wifi (remote stills shooting via android or IOS device)
Wifi (wireless file transfer/backup)
GPS tagging (I've never used it...)
Ergonomics allow for one handed shooting/image-review
Smaller/lighter
Less expensive

Why someone might consider the 5D-III:
Much more advanced AF sensor with peripheral cross-type AF pts
Far superior tracking with expanded modes (AF-assist pts)
Slightly faster burst rate (6fps)
Compact Flash (Faster RAW writing)
Dual card slots (e.g. RAW to CF, sJpeg to SD)
Slighter higher resolution
Better build quality (EG eyecup, better LCD, stronger Chassis)
Dual function top-plate buttons (e.g. Metering+WB, AF+DRIVE, ISO+FEC)
Joystick (I don't like it but other love it.)
Rate button and Creative function button (compare reviewed images side by side)
Better Video (less moire/aliasing)
Audio monitoring during video (Headphone Jack)

While it's not ideal, if you absolutely have to get one camera now, the 5D-III would probably serve you better.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.

Dylan - with all due respect, I think all the bodies we are comparing would qualify as 'advanced bodies', would you not agree? With the bodies mentioned, I don't see a lot of missing capabilities. You can't make a crop into a FF or vice versa. I think that's the whole point of the discussion. Go with a single FF sensor camera with one set of features or two different size sensor cameras with complimentary features for their respective designs.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

'I have the 5D-III and 6D and they are a good complement to each other, but here are some of the differences between these cameras that spring to mind:'

Great comparison summary StudentOfLight!

The lists you provide show a good contrast of why each camera compliments the other and why I still haven't sold my 6D or my 5D3 and I'm often glad I have them both. When trying to pick one over the other, it's important to know its' primary purpose/use. I agree that if money isn't an issue, the 5D3 would be the best single camera but if money is tight and sports isn't a primary use, the 6D would serve most photographers very well, even better in fact. And the 6D is a bit simpler to use than the 5D3.

 

[Dylan777]

I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.

Dylan - with all due respect, I think all the bodies we are comparing would qualify as 'advanced bodies', would you not agree? With the bodies mentioned, I don't see a lot of missing capabilities. You can't make a crop into a FF or vice versa. I think that's the whole point of the discussion. Go with a single FF sensor camera with one set of features or two different size sensor cameras with complimentary features for their respective designs.

Yes, they both have their own unique.

6D(high ISO, slow) + 7D(better AF system, good speed) = 5D III

The point I'm trying to say is 5D III is more capable body and can be used in many situations, where 6D + 7D might be limit to it or harder to get the shots.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.

Dylan - with all due respect, I think all the bodies we are comparing would qualify as 'advanced bodies', would you not agree? With the bodies mentioned, I don't see a lot of missing capabilities. You can't make a crop into a FF or vice versa. I think that's the whole point of the discussion. Go with a single FF sensor camera with one set of features or two different size sensor cameras with complimentary features for their respective designs.

Yes, they both have their own unique.

6D(high ISO, slow) + 7D(better AF system, good speed) = 5D III

The point I'm trying to say is 5D III is more capable body and can be used in many situations, where 6D + 7D might be limit to it or harder to get the shots.

I understand. We're in the same ball park here but since he's considering the 7D2 - I certainly hope that it will outperform the 5D3 in several key areas where it is designed and marketed to. Don't get the wrong idea, I use my 5D3 for sports and it's great... but not as great for that purpose as the 7D2 better be for what it will probably cost and the amount of time that has passed since the 5D3 and 1DX were released.

 

[Dylan777]

I rather have one advance body then multiple bodies with lack of capabilities.

Dylan - with all due respect, I think all the bodies we are comparing would qualify as 'advanced bodies', would you not agree? With the bodies mentioned, I don't see a lot of missing capabilities. You can't make a crop into a FF or vice versa. I think that's the whole point of the discussion. Go with a single FF sensor camera with one set of features or two different size sensor cameras with complimentary features for their respective designs.

Yes, they both have their own unique.

6D(high ISO, slow) + 7D(better AF system, good speed) = 5D III

The point I'm trying to say is 5D III is more capable body and can be used in many situations, where 6D + 7D might be limit to it or harder to get the shots.

I understand. We're in the same ball park here but since he's considering the 7D2 - I certainly hope that it will outperform the 5D3 in several key areas where it is designed and marketed to. Don't get the wrong idea, I use my 5D3 for sports and it's great... but not as great for that purpose as the 7D2 better be for what it will probably cost and the amount of time that has passed since the 5D3 and 1DX were released.

Understand your points RustyTheGeek

Kinda difficult for us to discuss and compare to something that is not exist - at least not yet.