6D+7Dii Vs 5D mkiii
- Thread starter Sabaki
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I have a 70d and a 6d. I use the almost every day when I go to my local pond. I use a 70-200f2.8 on the 6d which is great for deer and a 100-400 on the 70d which is great for birds. They compliment each other very well. Give me a lot more versatility than if I only had one body. Gives me an extra 30mm on the short end and 240mm on the long end.
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Sabaki said:My 500D, noble beast that she is, needs to be retired.
Her AF isn't sufficient when trying to catch quicker birds in flight and when it comes to low light photography, anything over ISO 800 affects image quality.
So I decided, that I wanted two cameras to replace her and set my sights on the 6D for the full frame goodness and 7Dii (yes, I know it's not out yet) for frames per second, AF system and so on.
But a friend is now messing with my mind. His advise? Get the 5Diii instead.
His contention is that the 5Diii will give me more bells and whistles than the 6D offers and provides sufficient resolution that would allow me to crop an image to equal the 1.6 "zoom" of a crop body.
But I'm not so sure that cropping an image shot at 400mm (FF) would give me the "fill" of a 640mm (APS-C) without negatively affecting image quality.
What would you guys do? If the 7Dii isn't announced this year, I may go for the 70D instead.
I'm really in need of some convincing that the full frame can replace a crop body.
Thanks in advance
There really isn't a lot to convince, especially since your original idea was to get two bodies before you got 'influenced', but I'd say consider the scenario when you need fast and accurate AF in less than ideal light. Then both your 6D and 7DII will fall short.
As some of the members asked, have you considered the logistics of two different format bodies? When will you carry one camera and when will you carry both? Which will you carry when you take only the one? Which lenses go with each camera? If you have a plan on how to carry both cameras then that's a point in favor of the two-camera choice.
Will your 5DIII crops be sufficient to replace a crop sensor camera? It depends- if you enlarge quite a bit, maybe not. If you don't make huge enlargements, then there seems to be very little difference in IQ- Privatebydesign and Neuroanatomist have several posts and examples on the forum. In my case, crops from the 5DIII look better than the 7D images, which look less sharp and sort of smudged in comparison and blown up (by themselves they are fine up to ISO 640).
I was in your position a year ago, and considered whether I should add a 6D or 5DII to my 7D or I should sell the 7D and get the 5DIII. I went for the latter, and was very happy with my decision. My driving factor was that I should have one camera that can do it all, almost. With the 7DII possibly having much more improved specs, it might be a good idea to wait rather than jumping the gun with a 5DIII. Sometimes the added information that comes with time resolves many questions automatically. Who knows, there might even be a 6DII...
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As I've already said, cost may determine some of this. There are several price scenarios. The dual camera combo will be the most expensive and a new 7D2 will likely cost close to what the 5D3 costs. The 7D2 will be brand new at the apex of its price curve while the 5D3 has settled into a lower norm. Once the 7D2 arrives, the 5D3 might even be a bit cheaper, esp used.
I would definitely wait until the 7D2 arrives before spending $1000's of dollars. Personally, I'm slightly tempted to get either a 70D or 7D2 for faster fps and low light performance for swimming pictures but it's not urgent. It would just be cool. Maybe the November sales will convince me to buy something. Maybe not.
Keep us posted on your decision!!
I would definitely wait until the 7D2 arrives before spending $1000's of dollars. Personally, I'm slightly tempted to get either a 70D or 7D2 for faster fps and low light performance for swimming pictures but it's not urgent. It would just be cool. Maybe the November sales will convince me to buy something. Maybe not.
Keep us posted on your decision!!
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RustyTheGeek said:As I've already said, cost may determine some of this. There are several price scenarios. The dual camera combo will be the most expensive and a new 7D2 will likely cost close to what the 5D3 costs. The 7D2 will be brand new at the apex of its price curve while the 5D3 has settled into a lower norm. Once the 7D2 arrives, the 5D3 might even be a bit cheaper, esp used.
I would definitely wait until the 7D2 arrives before spending $1000's of dollars. Personally, I'm slightly tempted to get either a 70D or 7D2 for faster fps and low light performance for swimming pictures but it's not urgent. It would just be cool. Maybe the November sales will convince me to buy something. Maybe not.
Keep us posted on your decision!!
My 5yrs old does indoor swimming. My shutter speed is usually around 1/800 to 1000. I just don't see how 70d or 7D II can handle that, even 5D III. Next best thing is 1dx shooting at f2.8.
Photo below was taken with 1dx @ at 1/2000 f5.6, ISO25000. Right before the sun goes down.
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Dylan777 said:
I am curious:
1. Why can't the 5DIII take pictures of an indoor swimmer?
2. Is there any reason you're shooting at 1/800? I have seen images of professional swimmers at 1/250 with good freezing of motion and slight motion of limbs. I suppose even slower speeds can be used for kids.
2. Could you have taken the egret image at f/2.8, giving you two stops more light? At this distance, the DoF with a 400/2.8 would have been sufficient. Or were you limited by maximum aperture (using 2x TC, perhaps)?
Thanks!
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sagittariansrock said:
I currently do shoot my 5D3 in various configurations with various lenses at various speeds and apertures. I shoot at different natatoriums. Some have better light than others. I usually shoot at around 1/200 - 1/320 to get a bit of motion. I typically shoot Tv and lock in ISO 3200 or 2000 depending on light and the camera goes from 2.8 to 6.3 depending on the lens, the light and the zoom range. I'm usually at the side of the pool and I typically use a 70-200 f/2.8 with a 1.4 TC or a 70-300L, sometimes also with a 1.4 TC (at the brighter locations where I can get away with it). The mercury vapor lights cycle at 60Hz and the light output and color change constantly making the pictures dark and light along with yellow and green. Lots of post work!!
If the 70D or the upcoming 7D2 allowed me more reach and better sensor tech, I might be able to ditch the TC and still be able to get up close without sacrificing IQ. I already have a 60D and of course it's not as good as the 5D3 IQ.
I don't plan to buy an expensive tele-prime.
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sagittariansrock said:
1. Why can't the 5DIII take pictures of an indoor swimmer? ==> some happy at 6400ISO, others not. Even though my 5D III is set at 5000IS, but most shots I took were around 3200.
2. Is there any reason you're shooting at 1/800? I have seen images of professional swimmers at 1/250 with good freezing of motion and slight motion of limbs. I suppose even slower speeds can be used for kids. ==> I believe most sport shooters would shoot min 1/500. If you want to see swimmer eyebrown through the goggles and detail of pool water flashes around the swimmer then try 1/500 or 1/800. I wouldn't reduce that shutter on kids.
3. Yes, the bird photo was taken with 400mm f2.8 IS II + 1.4x TC. I was there about 1hr before the sun set. With sun still high, I stepped down to f5.6 to gain sharpness. This photo clearly showed how careful I was with auto ISO ;D
Since I set my max ISO at 25000 on 1dx and was so busy tracking birds, I completely forgot about that I was shooting at f5.6 at sun set. Yes, the ISO could be much lower. Still, I'm pleased how the photo turned out. Many bird in flight shooters would set shutter speed around 1/1500 but I like to keep mine around 2000.
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RustyTheGeek said:
RustyTheGeek ,
Prior my 400mm f2.8 IS II, I shoot a lot with 70-200 f2.8 IS II with 5D III. Cropping was fun. Now, with 1dx + 400mm f2.8 IS II, shooting indoor swimming is fun
I'm not a DR guy. I'm more like high ISO shooter. I do wish 1dx II will have good improvement in high ISO.
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Dylan777 said:RustyTheGeek said:
RustyTheGeek ,
Prior my 400mm f2.8 IS II, I shoot a lot with 70-200 f2.8 IS II with 5D III. Cropping was fun. Now, with 1dx + 400mm f2.8 IS II, shooting indoor swimming is fun
I'm not a DR guy. I'm more like high ISO shooter. I do wish 1dx II will have good improvement in high ISO.
Dylan777, you've got me beat!! I usually don't sweat the price tags much. But all my shooting is for my own pleasure and volunteer work for the teams and other organizations. As much as I've spent over the years, I'm practically a pro with all the gear I have. But unfortunately, I'm not planning to go as far as you've gone. Wow. 1DX + 400mm f/2.8 IS II. Amazing. Just those two items cost close to what all my gear costs together and I've spent quite a bit over the years! My hat's off to you! 8) (Of course I realize you could be renting but somehow I doubt it!) Have fun dude!!
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RustyTheGeek said:Dylan777 said:RustyTheGeek said:
RustyTheGeek ,
Prior my 400mm f2.8 IS II, I shoot a lot with 70-200 f2.8 IS II with 5D III. Cropping was fun. Now, with 1dx + 400mm f2.8 IS II, shooting indoor swimming is fun
I'm not a DR guy. I'm more like high ISO shooter. I do wish 1dx II will have good improvement in high ISO.
Dylan777, you've got me beat!! I usually don't sweat the price tags much. But all my shooting is for my own pleasure and volunteer work for the teams and other organizations. As much as I've spent over the years, I'm practically a pro with all the gear I have. But unfortunately, I'm not planning to go as far as you've gone. Wow. 1DX + 400mm f/2.8 IS II. Amazing. Just those two items cost close to what all my gear costs together and I've spent quite a bit over the years! My hat's off to you! 8) (Of course I realize you could be renting but somehow I doubt it!) Have fun dude!!
I think we hijacked this thread from OP.
The most important - If we happy with our photos, who care what others think. I do hope you soon be an owner one of the BIG WHITES
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I have the 6D and the 7D and also use the company 5D MKIII. The 7D is the tool for wildlife, motor racing and fast sports. The 6D I use for landscape & travel and increasingly is my camera of choice. It gives nothing to the 5D MKIII in IQ but the areas the 5D MKIII is supreme are rock concerts with moving band members, with fast lenses and my biggest irritation with the 6D is the removable ground glass that gets dust between the ground glass & prism which doesnt happen with the 5D MKIII.
The 7D and the 5DMKIII share the same control layout and the toggle is much easier to use than the 6D which uses the same set-up as the 60D / 70D. The 6D however has GPS and Wi-Fi both of which are great for landscape and I use the app. on my iPhone as the romote release whilst effectly having live view detached. The GPS data goes straight into either Lightroom or Aperture and on somewhere like Dartmoor gives precise location.
The 7D and the 5DMKIII share the same control layout and the toggle is much easier to use than the 6D which uses the same set-up as the 60D / 70D. The 6D however has GPS and Wi-Fi both of which are great for landscape and I use the app. on my iPhone as the romote release whilst effectly having live view detached. The GPS data goes straight into either Lightroom or Aperture and on somewhere like Dartmoor gives precise location.
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Great post jeffa4444! I think I learned something about my 6D I didn't know! The ground glass prism thing is weird. I'll watch for it.
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Sabaki said:My 500D, noble beast that she is, needs to be retired.
Her AF isn't sufficient when trying to catch quicker birds in flight and when it comes to low light photography, anything over ISO 800 affects image quality.
So I decided, that I wanted two cameras to replace her and set my sights on the 6D for the full frame goodness and 7Dii (yes, I know it's not out yet
But a friend is now messing with my mind. His advise? Get the 5Diii instead.
His contention is that the 5Diii will give me more bells and whistles than the 6D offers and provides sufficient resolution that would allow me to crop an image to equal the 1.6 "zoom" of a crop body.
But I'm not so sure that cropping an image shot at 400mm (FF) would give me the "fill" of a 640mm (APS-C) without negatively affecting image quality.
What would you guys do? If the 7Dii isn't announced this year, I may go for the 70D instead.
I'm really in need of some convincing that the full frame can replace a crop body.
Thanks in advance
My advice is 6D + 70D + nice lens you would have spent extra for the 7D2.
5DIV will be out soon and will likely bring new sensor technology with it. 6D sensor is better than 5D3's, 5D4's will probably bring something all new to the table.
70D does most of what you need out of a "7D2" and is likely going to be far cheaper for a long time - plus unlikely 7D2 will bring radically new crop sensor technology as the 70D already did just bring new sensor tech to crop recently.
In good light (iso 1600 or below), when reach limited using a crop is better than FF IMO due to both composition (you can actually see what you are trying to frame) and pixel density. It also greatly speeds post processing and as a bonus gives you more FOV options with your prime lens set due to the crop factor.
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RustyTheGeek said:
I think he is talking about the user removable focus screen of the 6D/1DX, which the 5D3 lacks. I actually consider this a "con" of the 5D3, and a "pro" of the 6D. The 5D3 stock focus screen stinks for manual focus with fast lenses and doesn't show you what you'll actually be getting with fast lenses in the final product even with autofocus. The 6D you can swap in the Eg-S screen for fast lenses, similar as you could on the 5D2 and 1DX. If most of your lenses are f/2.8 or faster, you will want the Eg-S screen and not the stock screen.
Ironically, the 5D3 focus screen is not truly "fixed" in reality, though, remove a couple of screws that hide it and you can take it out just like the 6D screen: http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/5d3en.htm
That plate probably makes it slightly more dust resistant, but I would not think dramatically so.
...however there is no firmware options in 5D3 to correct auto exposure with matte screens (as is case with 6D/1DX) so this is not a good solution and voids warranty. In reality, I believe this is a feature Canon removed to differentiate the 5D3 from the 1DX. Yes, having the focus screen a little more exposed can make it a little more susceptible to dust, but it is also easy to clean and the ability to change screens far surpasses the downside of potentially having to clean it once and a while. I am hoping they bring interchangeable focus screens back to the 5DIV, I am getting tired of Canon removing petty features from cameras in the name of "differentiation." Lack of interchangeable focus screens is one of the things that led me to buy a 6D over a 5D3, I think its a pretty basic feature that is ridiculous for a $2500+ camera not to have.
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