6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it

Yesterday I shoot these at a Red Bull event in Milan, Italy. I used the 24-105L @f4 1/1000s 4000iso. I set a single focusing point in AI servo mode and of 200 shots only 8 were out of focus. I'm really happy with the focusing performance even with fast subjects in low light.

For the full size images follow this link: http://500px.com/photo/53027572
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7193_1.jpg
    IMG_7193_1.jpg
    79.6 KB · Views: 1,118
  • IMG_7185.jpg
    IMG_7185.jpg
    63.1 KB · Views: 1,103
  • IMG_7260.jpg
    IMG_7260.jpg
    104.5 KB · Views: 1,113
Upvote 0
Marsu42 said:
CarlTN said:
I disagree that -2LV is "enough", though.

I think we agree this is not about agreement, but just about if some shooting styles requires it or not...

If I understand it correctly, -2LV means @f2.8 (the fastest speed you'd expect the af to work flawlessly and not require mf tricks) and iso12800 (arguably the fastest speed that makes a residual sense) ... 1/4s. Personally, I'm unlikely to shoot with 1/4s handheld requiring phase af, let alone 1/2s of -3LV.

The one situation where -3LV might make sense for me is with a IS prime which axes up to 4 stops from non-IS handheld, and @24mm you just might be able to handhold 1/2s if you've got low blood pressure... but I don't have such a lens, so it's not necessary for me, I'm more interested in *fast* phase af at lower light levels.

I understand what you mean. But 1/2 second exposure is not good for anything other than a landscape shot on a tripod (or at least anything other than an animal or human...something that is very still). I got acceptable sharpness from a 200 f/2 that I rented with 1/2 second exposure on my monopod. In any case I can't afford a 400 f/2.8, but even it would not be enough light to get an ISO of 12,800 at an exposure of 1/15 sec or so on a monopod, with the amount of light in the scenario I mentioned above, where my f/5.6 was under exposed at that shutter speed at ISO 102k.
 
Upvote 0
gigabellone said:
Just to let you all know, i placed my order for the 6D, i hope i'll be able to play with it this week end. :D

Congrats' and I hope you enjoy it! I can't seem to get away from mine for long. I know it's far from perfect, but for the price, I don't know of any better camera...especially for my needs. I'm just amazed at how intuitive and easy it is to use. I almost think I could sleepwalk, pick it up, and adjust all sorts of things on it without knowing I did it. Never experienced that from any other camera (including all other Canon DSLR's I've owned, rented, or tried). The menus are beautiful in their layout and function. I tried scrolling through the menus on a Nikon D7100 a few days ago...what a nightmare! It was like flipping through newspaper pages back in the Victorian era, by comparison...with my toes! Does "Nikon" mean "illogical" in Japanese? It literally took me over 10 minutes to find what I was looking for in the Nikon menu...about as organized as my brother's workshop!
 
Upvote 0
Concerning the thread title and mythbusting:

During the last week and the grim weather I had a lot of opportunity to shoot in dim light, and with 6D+100L I have to say the -3LV in no way are able to replace the af assist beam (which I cannot use if the flash is on a bracket).

The 6D does af eventually which is better than nothing, but if shooting animal or people portraits it's way too slow, plus not very precise either, I guess the latter since it's a f2.8 lens which has the well-known non-cross sensor problem. Ymmv with other lenses though, I just tried the 100L as it's my fastest lens.
 
Upvote 0
I played with my new toy today, and i must say i'm really impressed. It's light, but feels solid. The shutter is quiet, and it's easy and intuitive to use. And i can't believe how clean the pictures look at iso 4000 and over. The AF is good enough, it didn't disappoint after all. Now i only need a good wide angle lens and a sturdy tripod. :D
 
Upvote 0
gigabellone said:
I played with my new toy today, and i must say i'm really impressed. It's light, but feels solid. The shutter is quiet, and it's easy and intuitive to use. And i can't believe how clean the pictures look at iso 4000 and over. The AF is good enough, it didn't disappoint after all. Now i only need a good wide angle lens and a sturdy tripod. :D

Glad to hear it! How wide of a lens?
 
Upvote 0
CarlTN said:
Glad to hear it! How wide of a lens?

In the last days i persuaded myself that the 24L would be the perfect lens for me. 24mm should be wide enough for landscapes, and its large aperture will help a lot in low available light and open up interesting creative possibilities. I think it can cover most of my shooting needs: landscape, travel/street, full body portraits.
 
Upvote 0
gigabellone said:
I think it can cover most of my shooting needs: landscape, travel/street, full body portraits.

I'd like to state the theory that there is a reason the seemingly boring 35mm is very popular on ff - for portraits 24mm already is very far from the "natural" look of the human eye, so for full body portraits a bit longer focal lengths and taking some steps back might give more pleasing results. Then again, for groups in tight spaces it isn't wide enough, even though my recent ff experience with the 17-40L is that 24mm already is really, really wide - but not wide enough for some landscapes mind you.

It would be very nice to get a "one does it all" prime, but for one lens I'd chose a zoom (standard or uwa) because the 6d already excels at low light, faster than f2.8 (16-35, 24-70) should be rarely essential.
 
Upvote 0
Marsu42 said:
gigabellone said:
I think it can cover most of my shooting needs: landscape, travel/street, full body portraits.

I'd like to state the theory that there is a reason the seemingly boring 35mm is very popular on ff - for portraits 24mm already is very far from the "natural" look of the human eye, so for full body portraits a bit longer focal lengths and taking some steps back might give more pleasing results. Then again, for groups in tight spaces it isn't wide enough, even though my recent ff experience with the 17-40L is that 24mm already is really, really wide - but not wide enough for some landscapes mind you.

It would be very nice to get a "one does it all" prime, but for one lens I'd chose a zoom (standard or uwa) because the 6d already excels at low light, faster than f2.8 (16-35, 24-70) should be rarely essential.

Is this another one of those times where you're being more discouraging than encouraging? I get accused of that, but frankly you're worse than me!
 
Upvote 0
gigabellone said:
CarlTN said:
Glad to hear it! How wide of a lens?

In the last days i persuaded myself that the 24L would be the perfect lens for me. 24mm should be wide enough for landscapes, and its large aperture will help a lot in low available light and open up interesting creative possibilities. I think it can cover most of my shooting needs: landscape, travel/street, full body portraits.

I've rented the Canon 24L, but only used it on my crop body at that time. A couple of months ago I bought the Sigma 24mm f/1.8 to use on the 6D. The image quality is not that far behind the Canon L, especially in the outer 50% of the image where it's probably as good or better than the Canon (certainly in the center it's not, but on the 6D I doubt there's a vast difference...noticeable but not vast). In my opinion that particular Canon lens is priced kind of high, but it's a fine lens to own and use, and has superb contrast. It definitely autofocuses more quickly, silently, consistently and accurately than the Sigma. But the Sigma costs about 65% less, and it was well worth it to me. I also prefer the color rendering of the Sigma. Lately I've used the Canon 24-105L more than the Sigma, because that zoom range is pretty indispensable. Closed down to f/6.3 or so, the Sigma is sharper at the borders than the Canon 24-105, at 24mm...and also the Sigma has less barrel distortion. Another advantage the Sigma has, though, is macro photography. Wide angle macro photography, can be astounding...it helps place the subject in context of its surroundings, where longer macro lenses isolate the subject too much for my taste a lot of the time.

The Sigma 20, 24, and 28 f/1.8 lenses have gotten a bad reputation. I looked into it, looked at the reviews and tests, and decided the 24mm didn't deserve the bad reputation, at least optically. Even the build quality is not as bad as the reviews would have you think. The only real problem is the lack of silent autofocus, along with the innacurate AF...at least on my copy. I've been able to work around it, using AFMA, for the most part. If I was at an event though, I kind of agree with Marsu, that a zoom is preferable. I would take my 24-105 without even thinking of anything else.

Sigma will likely offer an "Art" version at 24mm, probably an f/1.4. However, I doubt it will have weather sealing (as their 35mm does not), and yet it will likely cost more than the 35mm, perhaps close to the Canon L that you have. It might just be the sharpest 24mm ever made, though, given that the Sigma 35mm is. My money would be spent on an "art" version of the 20mm fast prime, though, if they ever make one of those. In the meantime, I am thinking more toward a Zeiss 18mm f/3.5.

Sorry for getting long-winded there! I look forward to seeing some of your images! Btw, there's another thread about the Rokinon 14mm f/2.8. Have a look at the carousel shots, they're quite lovely! That lens is really the ultimate value for wide angle primes, at 1/10 the cost of the Zeiss 15mm, and very comparable resolution to it. The colors and contrast don't compare, but the resolution does. For $300 US, that's saying something! It doesn't autofocus, though, and is too wide for group portraits unless you perform a lot of bending and squeezing in post editing, to keep the people toward the borders from looking obese! You have to do that a little even at 24mm, as Marsu hints at, but only in the most critical framing situations. This is due to rectilinear projection, or what I like to call rectilinear distortion. For some reason people like to refer to barrel and pincushion as distortion, but not rectilinear. However it certainly produces distortion in a photograph.
 
Upvote 0
CarlTN said:
Is this another one of those times where you're being more discouraging than encouraging?

I'm encouraging people new to gas (gear acquirement syndrome) to carefully consider what to buy, and primes simply have usage limitations while zooms get better all the time...

CarlTN said:
I get accused of that, but frankly you're worse than me!

... probably I've got less money to invest than you, that's why I'm quite careful when spending it or advising other people to do so :-o
 
Upvote 0
Marsu42 said:
CarlTN said:
Is this another one of those times where you're being more discouraging than encouraging?

I'm encouraging people new to gas (gear acquirement syndrome) to carefully consider what to buy, and primes simply have usage limitations while zooms get better all the time...

CarlTN said:
I get accused of that, but frankly you're worse than me!

... probably I've got less money to invest than you, that's why I'm quite careful when spending it or advising other people to do so :-o

Lordamercie, no I would say you likely have more to spend than I do. I've gone into debt with some of my purchases, and am certainly planning to sell two of my lenses. One is for sale now. Quite the contrary, I try to encourage people to not spend too much...I even told him that I thought the 24mm L was overpriced, if you read my usual Tolstoy-esque diatribe above (and then memorize it, there's a test later! :P). I would say the vast majority of people on here have more disposable income than I do at the present time, even the college or pre-college kids! Then there are those who could afford to hire me to edit their photos, or even travel and take their photos for them...but they think they can do it better, so they won't!
 
Upvote 0
GaryJ said:
bholliman said:
x-vision said:
Well, the 6D has what is effectively a 1-point AF system.
A bit of an exaggeration... I often use the outer focal points on my 6D. Yes, the center point is much better, but the outer points are not bad in decent light. I can nail shallow DOF with the outer points.
+1

-1 :-p ... you cannot nail the af with shallow dof and the 6d outer points *reliably* because they only have f5.6 precision, that's no opinion, that's a fact. Of course you will get lucky after a few tries, or the subjective shallow isn't really shallow like f2.8- or the subject was of a type that some variance isn't noticeable.
 
Upvote 0
gigabellone said:
I'm about to spend a significant (for my finances) amount of money ...

At first the AF on the 6D can be a bit confusing, but I think it can be distilled into one sentence and a chart: The Canon 6D has 11 AF points which may not cut it if you shoot fast action 80% of the time or more, but it locks in lower light than any Canon DSLR, and perhaps any DSLR on the market as of this post. If you often shoot in lowlight, landscapes, at night, star trail photography, time-lapse etc. the 6D's AF sensitivity is currently unmatched.

As a disclaimer I own the 5D Mark III and the 1DX and I shoot travel and landscape photography. I use ND filters and shoot in lowlight quite often, so the 6D is best for me at the moment. If I had to predict the future I'd say the revision of the 5D Mark III will have this -3EV, but until it does 6D wins on AF sensitivity.

Have a look:

SS-2013-12-05-at-11.16.18-PM.png


Graham

grahamclarkphoto.com
 
Upvote 0
grahamclarkphoto said:
The Canon 6D has 11 AF points which may not cut it if you shoot fast action 80% of the time or more, but it locks in lower light than any Canon DSLR, and perhaps any DSLR on the market as of this post.

If you write it like that, it's almost entirely (10/11= 90%) wrong - the 6D only has -3LV on the center point and the other 10 points are not only non-cross, but only af up to an "astonishing" +0.5LV which is too low for general dim light shooting, esp. considering the 6d's iso capability. But I can understand the oversight, it's hard to believe Canon put something like this in a €1500 camera :-\
 
Upvote 0
I was surprised to find that this thread is still going! I don't know how much is there to say about the 6D AF capabilities, sure it is the most limited (crippled if you will) overall AF system of Canon's current FF offerings. As many have said, you gotta try it and see if it fits your applications. There are plenty of scenarios underlining its limitations --right tool for the right job after all.

I agree that product differentiation played into decisions on what AF system to have in the 6D. I'm happy with the Canon system. So I'm positively surprised that the 6D can be had in the current US market for less than $1500. If we talk about price, then let's look at the cameras as a whole. The 6D offers IQ, ISO, and other features comparable to Canon FF cameras that are substantially more expensive. Of course, one can always ask for more , but provided it fits your needs, IMHO the 6D gives great value.
 
Upvote 0
pensive tomato said:
I was surprised to find that this thread is still going! I don't know how much is there to say about the 6D AF capabilities, sure it is the most limited (crippled if you will) overall AF system of Canon's current FF offerings. As many have said, you gotta try it and see if it fits your applications. There are plenty of scenarios underlining its limitations --right tool for the right job after all.

I agree that product differentiation played into decisions on what AF system to have in the 6D. I'm happy with the Canon system. So I'm positively surprised that the 6D can be had in the current US market for less than $1500. If we talk about price, then let's look at the cameras as a whole. The 6D offers IQ, ISO, and other features comparable to Canon FF cameras that are substantially more expensive. Of course, one can always ask for more , but provided it fits your needs, IMHO the 6D gives great value.

Agreed. Hopefully the future 5D4 will match or exceed the S/N ratio of the 6D within the ISO range I constantly refer to. If it does I will probably upgrade. If it does not, then that will be a strike against upgrading to it, for me.
 
Upvote 0