7D Mark II for Photokina? [CR1]

[AprilForever]

Somebody please explain the fascination with APS-H sensors that some folks seem to have.

- has a crop for the extra apparent reach
- has good low noise
- has good IQ
- has the scope for 25mp+ without compromising the above

The best APS-H body is far better than the best APS-C. So all they have to do is lift the sensor and AF and put it in a (3D) small body and there is a body better than the 7D

Ehhhhh, there are some newer APS-C sensors that are quite close.

On paper, APS-H is better in all the ways mentioned but, is it really so much better as to warrant the increased difficulty and price in manufacturing and sales?

And the loss in focal length?

 

[JonJT]

Somebody please explain the fascination with APS-H sensors that some folks seem to have.

- has a crop for the extra apparent reach
- has good low noise
- has good IQ
- has the scope for 25mp+ without compromising the above

The best APS-H body is far better than the best APS-C. So all they have to do is lift the sensor and AF and put it in a (3D) small body and there is a body better than the 7D

Ehhhhh, there are some newer APS-C sensors that are quite close.

On paper, APS-H is better in all the ways mentioned but, is it really so much better as to warrant the increased difficulty and price in manufacturing and sales?

And the loss in focal length?

Indeed but, that's been mentioned previously.

 

[AprilForever]

Somebody please explain the fascination with APS-H sensors that some folks seem to have.

- has a crop for the extra apparent reach
- has good low noise
- has good IQ
- has the scope for 25mp+ without compromising the above

The best APS-H body is far better than the best APS-C. So all they have to do is lift the sensor and AF and put it in a (3D) small body and there is a body better than the 7D

Ehhhhh, there are some newer APS-C sensors that are quite close.

On paper, APS-H is better in all the ways mentioned but, is it really so much better as to warrant the increased difficulty and price in manufacturing and sales?

And the loss in focal length?

Indeed but, that's been mentioned previously.

Sure now, the ASP-H is in a better body than the best ASP-C, but that has nothing to do with the sensor and evrything to do with the body...

ASP-C is amazing, and always shall be. It is here to stay, for a while anyway. Though many might naysay the ASP-C, many also naysay the 2x and more crops of the mirrorless cameras; mirrorless cameras are selling like wildfire, despite a smaller sensor!!!

 

[JonJT]

Somebody please explain the fascination with APS-H sensors that some folks seem to have.

- has a crop for the extra apparent reach
- has good low noise
- has good IQ
- has the scope for 25mp+ without compromising the above

The best APS-H body is far better than the best APS-C. So all they have to do is lift the sensor and AF and put it in a (3D) small body and there is a body better than the 7D

Ehhhhh, there are some newer APS-C sensors that are quite close.

On paper, APS-H is better in all the ways mentioned but, is it really so much better as to warrant the increased difficulty and price in manufacturing and sales?

And the loss in focal length?

Indeed but, that's been mentioned previously.

Sure now, the ASP-H is in a better body than the best ASP-C, but that has nothing to do with the sensor and evrything to do with the body...

ASP-C is amazing, and always shall be. It is here to stay, for a while anyway. Though many might naysay the ASP-C, many also naysay the 2x and more crops of the mirrorless cameras; mirrorless cameras are selling like wildfire, despite a smaller sensor!!!

Eh, the APS-H sensor in the latest 1D does outperform the current APS-C sensors Canon has to offer. Whether or not that translates into better images is an entirely different matter. Regardless, The sensor and the body make a camera great, or not.

 

[x-vision]

The best APS-H body is far better than the best APS-C.

Right. And costs far more than the best APS-C body.

So, if Canon puts an APS-H sensor in the 7DII, is it reasonable to expect that the 7DII will keep the 7D price ???.

 

[x-vision]

just up the 7D mk2's FPS and AF plus possible use different ASPC sensors with the 70D upping megapixels and the 7D mk2 ISO performance.

+1.

 

[briansquibb]

The best APS-H body is far better than the best APS-C.

Right. And costs far more than the best APS-C body.

So, if Canon puts an APS-H sensor in the 7DII, is it reasonable to expect that the 7DII will keep the 7D price ???.

The issue that Canon has is that the 1DX is going to be expensive and the 7D is relatively cheap - this leaves them with a huge gap in their product range.

By taking the APS-H sensor and AF and putting it in a prosumer body and upping the mps then this gap will be filled - and upgrade path for the current 7D users. We are looking at the 3D/6D body here, selling for about $3000 - $4000 dollars.

This in turn would take the pressure off Canon to make huge improvements in the 7D - which otherwise would become the top Canon sports camera if the 1D4 is killed off (as the anti APS-H people are suggesting).

The 7D is a great camera at its price point - but the pros want more and the 1DX falls short from a sports and wildlife perspective due to the loss of the 1.3 crop. Canon needs a model to fight the Nikon D3S - the loss of the APS-H would leave them vulnerable.

 

[briansquibb]

The best APS-H body is far better than the best APS-C.

Right. And costs far more than the best APS-C body.

So, if Canon puts an APS-H sensor in the 7DII, is it reasonable to expect that the 7DII will keep the 7D price ???.

Do you think that if the 7DII gets all the upgrades the APS-C lovers want that it will still come in at $1500? And then everyone will start shouting at Canon about the price increases. It will be better for Canon to do a minor refresh (and give it the 7DII tag) at the same price and introduce a more serious pro sports body as an upgrade path

 

[Stuart]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?
Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.
New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

 

[KeithR]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?

I love how some people feel qualified to comment on how one non-existent camera will perform in comparison to another non-existent camera.

Don't assume that FF automatically implies better DR - the Nikon D7000/Pentax K5/Sony sensor has already proven that it's a poor assumption, and I expect Canon to continue that trend.

 

[AprilForever]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?

I love how some people feel qualified to comment on how one non-existent camera will perform in comparison to another non-existent camera.

Don't assume that FF automatically implies better DR - the Nikon D7000/Pentax K5/Sony sensor has already proven that it's a poor assumption, and I expect Canon to continue that trend.

True... true...

 

[moreorless]

The issue that Canon has is that the 1DX is going to be expensive and the 7D is relatively cheap - this leaves them with a huge gap in their product range.

....perhaps a good thing for Canon? with the 1DX and the 7D mk2 as the AF/FPS focused cameras having some space between them in sensor size and performance would stop one canibalising the others sales.

I'd add that the ideal situation for Canon isnt for 1D users to buy the 1DX or the 7D mk2 but rather the 1DX AND the 7D mk2. A cheaper 7D mk2 with a bigger difference in crop factor would make a much more appealing second body purchase for pro's using 1DX's.

The biggest problem with ASPH on a 7D is always going to be lack of wideangle coverage. The 1D userbase might be ok with this but the 7D's primary market will remain amatures looking for a general purpose body.

 

[briansquibb]

I'd add that the ideal situation for Canon isnt for 1D users to buy the 1DX or the 7D mk2 but rather the 1DX AND the 7D mk2. A cheaper 7D mk2 with a bigger difference in crop factor would make a much more appealing second body purchase for pro's using 1DX's.

The biggest problem with ASPH on a 7D is always going to be lack of wideangle coverage. The 1D userbase might be ok with this but the 7D's primary market will remain amatures looking for a general purpose body.

Er - no - the 7D would not make a good second body for a 1DX shooter

Please get round that what is NOT being proposed is a 7D with APS-H sensor and AF. What is being proposed is another body with the APS-H sensor which would be a logical upgrade for the 7D user - aimed at the sports shooter.

For wide angle the ff is the way to go as the 14mm beats anything that can be had with APS-C

 

[Axilrod]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?
Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.
New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

The 7D has a better dynamic range than the 5DII.......And you're talking about 2 cameras that we know absolutely nothing about, but I'm guessing there won't be that much of a difference, probably less than 1 stop.

 

[briansquibb]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?
Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.
New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

The 7D has a better dynamic range than the 5DII.......And you're talking about 2 cameras that we know absolutely nothing about, but I'm guessing there won't be that much of a difference, probably less than 1 stop.

According to DxO dynamic ranges:

7D: 11.7 evs
5DII : 11.9evs
1D4: 12 evs
1Ds3: 12 evs

So the 7D is the bottom of the pile :

 

[Lee Jay]

If they put a descent AF in with the ability to autofocus up to F8 it would be a great wildlife camera.

If they put in f/8 AF sensors, I'll almost certainly be a customer (for the camera and two pieces of Canon optics). Otherwise, probably not - at least for a good while.

How much trouble could it be to install one cross f/8 AF point in the center? I'd be happy with that.

 

[AprilForever]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?
Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.
New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

The 7D has a better dynamic range than the 5DII.......And you're talking about 2 cameras that we know absolutely nothing about, but I'm guessing there won't be that much of a difference, probably less than 1 stop.

According to DxO dynamic ranges:

7D: 11.7 evs
5DII : 11.9evs
1D4: 12 evs
1Ds3: 12 evs

So the 7D is the bottom of the pile :

Seems like not a lot of distance between each other in the pile... seems also that dynamic range has almost nothing to do with sensor size...

Perhaps, it has more to do with programming and other technology?

 

[briansquibb]

If they put a descent AF in with the ability to autofocus up to F8 it would be a great wildlife camera.

If they put in f/8 AF sensors, I'll almost certainly be a customer (for the camera and two pieces of Canon optics). Otherwise, probably not - at least for a good while.

How much trouble could it be to install one cross f/8 AF point in the center? I'd be happy with that.

Rather like the APS-H and AF in the 1D4 - there is another reason then ....

 

[Edwin Herdman]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?

Who wants a FF 5D Mark III and not a 7D Mark II?

At present it looks like the market can have both.

It's a very simple-minded thing to believe that the announcement of a 7D successor would stop a 5D successor - they've coexisted up to now and neither "steps on the other's toes." If anything, we're pulling for the 5D to have better AF capability - the 7D is a godsend because it has a superior AF system at an inferior price

Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.

Worthwhile compared to what? At what price? It won't replace the 5D, so you can stop worrying already.

New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

Why should we care what would make you upgrade from your 60D?

I'm still not convinced. I'm sure they care just enough to not have their customer's running to another company.

Ditching EF-S support would make that a lot easier for many users.

For me personally, EF-S is almost a non-issue since I have no EF-S lenses - however, messing with the crop factor would be a big problem.

 

[briansquibb]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?

Who wants a FF 5D Mark III and not a 7D Mark II?

At present it looks like the market can have both.

It's a very simple-minded thing to believe that the announcement of a 7D successor would stop a 5D successor - they've coexisted up to now and neither "steps on the other's toes." If anything, we're pulling for the 5D to have better AF capability - the 7D is a godsend because it has a superior AF system at an inferior price

Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.

Worthwhile compared to what? At what price? It won't replace the 5D, so you can stop worrying already.

New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

Why should we care what would make you upgrade from your 60D?

I'm still not convinced. I'm sure they care just enough to not have their customer's running to another company.

Ditching EF-S support would make that a lot easier for many users.

For me personally, EF-S is almost a non-issue since I have no EF-S lenses - however, messing with the crop factor would be a big problem.

+1 [applaud]