Going to upgrade my camera and having a hard choice... i currently have a 60D and use the 85 1.8, and 50mm 1.8, i shoot mostly events and eventually will get into video work. So im wondering which camera will be a better suite for me or any other recommendations. also im looking to pick up another lens for all around shooting, so any tips, hints or suggestions are welcome.
7d mark ii or 6D
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If by events you mean wedding/corporate/bar/birthday events, then image quality and being able to shoot in low light sends you to the 6D. However you mention video, and that would push you to the 70D.
I love my 7D2, but I use it at horse and sporting events - things that move fast and need fps. It does very well for portraits and low light for the trade off of those fps and AF, but I'm not sure that is what you are needing.
Another option is to wait a bit more for the 5D3 price to come down when the 5D4 comes out, and have good video, great AF, and great low light performance.
For video though, the best/cheapest option that can still do good stills is the 70D, very good low light performance in a crop sensor, very good video (and things people like for it, articulating screen, touch screen focus etc...)
I think eventually you'll want one for video, and one for stills, but as I understand it, the 70D is the best choice out there now to do both on a budget.
I love my 7D2, but I use it at horse and sporting events - things that move fast and need fps. It does very well for portraits and low light for the trade off of those fps and AF, but I'm not sure that is what you are needing.
Another option is to wait a bit more for the 5D3 price to come down when the 5D4 comes out, and have good video, great AF, and great low light performance.
For video though, the best/cheapest option that can still do good stills is the 70D, very good low light performance in a crop sensor, very good video (and things people like for it, articulating screen, touch screen focus etc...)
I think eventually you'll want one for video, and one for stills, but as I understand it, the 70D is the best choice out there now to do both on a budget.
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100% agree to all said by ksgalksgal said:
I only want to add that if you change to FF you still can use your lenses really well - I'd say even better.
But be aware that your 85 will become what you do with your 50 now, the 50 will get wider and if you want to still have the reach of the 85 you'll need something like a 135 mm lens. (the 135L is a wonderful lens, but not cheap
)Enjoy your new gear whatever you'll choose.
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Maximilian said:100% agree to all said by ksgalksgal said:
I only want to add that if you change to FF you still can use your lenses really well - I'd say even better.
But be aware that your 85 will become what you do with your 50 now, the 50 will get wider and if you want to still have the reach of the 85 you'll need something like a 135 mm lens. (the 135L is a wonderful lens, but not cheap
Enjoy your new gear whatever you'll choose.
One thing that people overlook a lot is ergonomics. A DSLR held up to your face might be great for taking stills, but is terrible for video. An articulated screen is almost a must for shooting video on a DSLR...
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fair tomorrow said:
I've used both. If you depend too much on your articulating screen then go for the 70D.
Both the 6D and 7D Mark II force you to really plan your shots beforehand with proper framing due
to their fixed screen. For some, this is not a problem. But if you do a lot of hand-held stuff for live events
then it will be an issue, unless you go for a really wide-angle lens to ensure everything is in the shot.
I consider both the 6D and the 7D Mark II as pro cameras. They demand a high level of skill from the user
to extract the best out of them. The 6D is even more demanding when you consider the paper-thin DOF
you'll have to take into account with fast lenses.
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I shoot paid event about once a month.
I use 6D primary and 70D for backup and video.
You can get 2nd hand camera for both.
Here is my website: www.sgphotog.com I am not a savvy photographer, and my target market is those budget couple, but still quality is ok. My output is not fancy.
I use 6D primary and 70D for backup and video.
You can get 2nd hand camera for both.
Here is my website: www.sgphotog.com I am not a savvy photographer, and my target market is those budget couple, but still quality is ok. My output is not fancy.
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This thread need go no further; ksgal + Max + Don have nailed it. Own/use 60D/6D/70D and 7D2; unless you need 10 fps your choice is between 6D (new, more expensive?, version soon?) and 70D. Given your 60D framing experience, and pending video, 70D better choice. I'm often surprised at what I see when switching to (least used) 6D.
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I have to agree that, generally speaking, the 70D will be most consumer-friendly DSLR for video. But the 7DII really has some better video features for the semi-pro/pro.
The 7DII compared the 70D has:
Video showing moire comparison (look at background brick building): https://vimeo.com/106524090
For general shooters, I'd probably stick the 70D. But for pro's seeking the best image quality possible, the 7DII is superior.
The 7DII compared the 70D has:
- Substantially less aliasing/moire (similar to the 5DIII, whereas the 70D is comparable to the 6D)
- 1080p60
- Headphone jack
- Clean HDMI output
Video showing moire comparison (look at background brick building): https://vimeo.com/106524090
For general shooters, I'd probably stick the 70D. But for pro's seeking the best image quality possible, the 7DII is superior.
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I think personally I'd go for the 7DII just because of the AF points.. 9 Af and one cross type point on the 6D is pretty low.. I have a basic dslr now and that's what is holding me back now.
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If you are a paid event photographer, I would go for the 7D2 for the following reasons -
1. Dual card slot data integrity. It isn't a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN a card will fail. You can't reshoot an event. Many data recoveries succeed, but NOT ALL. Of those that succeed, rarely are 100% of the photos recovered. After all, the whole reason a failure took place is because data on the card became corrupted. In this day and age of social networking - reputations can be ruined quickly and hard earned referrals lost. Ignore all the morons who will say this isn't that important. If that was true, the 5D and 1D series would have one slot, but they don't. You owe it to yourself, your business and the customer to protect the images. The 7D2 does that at a very reasonable price point. It is almost unethical not to.
2. You said video, 7D2 has good video. The 6D does not. 7D2 lacks only the articulating touch screen. If you do video that requires that, then you really need a 70D and set that up as a dedicated video rig and forget trying to do it all in one body because you give up too many other things going with the 70D.
3. Speed. Events often require a decent FPS to capture key moments. At 10 FPS, the 7D2 will do it. The 6D has a lousy 4.5 which means you and your finger need to have good timing.
4. AF system. Depending what you shoot during these events, the AF on the 7D2 is better.
5. Build quality - the 7D2 is tougher.
6. Anti-flicker. This feature alone is worth it. Events are often take place under crappy fluorescent lighting. The anti-flicker mode will dramatically reduce your post-processing work flow and improve consistency across the album you create.
7. 100% finder on the 7D2.
The only things the 6D does better:
1. Sharper, better image quality all around. FF advantage here. FF sensor will resolve more detail even at the same megapixel count. Not much else to say.
2. Better low light performance. If you genuinely run into situations where you are shooting at ISO 6400 and 12800 AND using these photos as keepers - the 6D will show an improvement. At lower ISOs with NR, it makes little to no difference on print. Some would rightfully argue the 7D2's ISO 6400 shots are perfectly usable, and they would be correct. But that depends on your standards.
3. DOF. Again, FF advantage here. While APS-C can be wonderful, all things being equal, the FF sensor gets a perspective the APS-C cannot. Although, in event shooting and to customers - I doubt they would ever notice or even care. Good glass is a larger part of the equation.
I would easily weight the 7D2's advantages as much more important. There are tons of pros out there shooting 60D, 70D, 7D, 7D2, and even the 40D!....the image quality as you already know, is perfectly fine. Results are great, and you can create albums, prints and slideshows and whatever that easily meets typical pro standards out there for albums.
If someone said they just shoot portrait sessions, the 6D is the easy choice because that is a controlled environment and all the 7D2 advantages no longer matter. You control the pace. You can reshoot (within reason). You can tether or wifi transfer. You control the lighting. You focus where you want every time. All the difficulties of event shooting vanish - and all you are left with is which camera has better image quality. That would be the 6D.
However, in the real world things are really tough at events, the 7D2 has features that really do assist in making the shots. There's little time for adjustments. Things happen quickly. Conditions are never ideal, and often they are awful. The 6D shoots like an older DSLR.
1. Dual card slot data integrity. It isn't a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN a card will fail. You can't reshoot an event. Many data recoveries succeed, but NOT ALL. Of those that succeed, rarely are 100% of the photos recovered. After all, the whole reason a failure took place is because data on the card became corrupted. In this day and age of social networking - reputations can be ruined quickly and hard earned referrals lost. Ignore all the morons who will say this isn't that important. If that was true, the 5D and 1D series would have one slot, but they don't. You owe it to yourself, your business and the customer to protect the images. The 7D2 does that at a very reasonable price point. It is almost unethical not to.
2. You said video, 7D2 has good video. The 6D does not. 7D2 lacks only the articulating touch screen. If you do video that requires that, then you really need a 70D and set that up as a dedicated video rig and forget trying to do it all in one body because you give up too many other things going with the 70D.
3. Speed. Events often require a decent FPS to capture key moments. At 10 FPS, the 7D2 will do it. The 6D has a lousy 4.5 which means you and your finger need to have good timing.
4. AF system. Depending what you shoot during these events, the AF on the 7D2 is better.
5. Build quality - the 7D2 is tougher.
6. Anti-flicker. This feature alone is worth it. Events are often take place under crappy fluorescent lighting. The anti-flicker mode will dramatically reduce your post-processing work flow and improve consistency across the album you create.
7. 100% finder on the 7D2.
The only things the 6D does better:
1. Sharper, better image quality all around. FF advantage here. FF sensor will resolve more detail even at the same megapixel count. Not much else to say.
2. Better low light performance. If you genuinely run into situations where you are shooting at ISO 6400 and 12800 AND using these photos as keepers - the 6D will show an improvement. At lower ISOs with NR, it makes little to no difference on print. Some would rightfully argue the 7D2's ISO 6400 shots are perfectly usable, and they would be correct. But that depends on your standards.
3. DOF. Again, FF advantage here. While APS-C can be wonderful, all things being equal, the FF sensor gets a perspective the APS-C cannot. Although, in event shooting and to customers - I doubt they would ever notice or even care. Good glass is a larger part of the equation.
I would easily weight the 7D2's advantages as much more important. There are tons of pros out there shooting 60D, 70D, 7D, 7D2, and even the 40D!....the image quality as you already know, is perfectly fine. Results are great, and you can create albums, prints and slideshows and whatever that easily meets typical pro standards out there for albums.
If someone said they just shoot portrait sessions, the 6D is the easy choice because that is a controlled environment and all the 7D2 advantages no longer matter. You control the pace. You can reshoot (within reason). You can tether or wifi transfer. You control the lighting. You focus where you want every time. All the difficulties of event shooting vanish - and all you are left with is which camera has better image quality. That would be the 6D.
However, in the real world things are really tough at events, the 7D2 has features that really do assist in making the shots. There's little time for adjustments. Things happen quickly. Conditions are never ideal, and often they are awful. The 6D shoots like an older DSLR.
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MyCanon1 said:
This sales post does not belong here in this thread. You keep posting this ad in random threads and it is not in keeping with the forum rules.
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BigAntTVProductions said:
How about photos of 7Dii with ISO 6400?
Indoors and night time. It is normal to shoot ISO 6400 and shutter speed of 1/125. at F4.
My experience from 70D, not very usable.
With 6D I can at ISO 10000 still usable. I can use 6D to shoot photos above:
Use a bit wide angle lens, set to Ai servo, use center point and target on the player, shoot 5 frames per sec.
then Crop, to the photos above.
I can do low light plus this with the 6D.
Honestly, the only thing I can see advantage of 7Dii is that, center AF point of 6D was multiplied and spread. But looking at other features like, high iso, weight, what else... 6D wins..
Specially the choice of wide angle lens. Which wide angle lens can be use on a crop sensor?
14mm L is so expensive
11-24mm also expensive
16-35mm F4 - F4 to slow aperture for crop
24-70 F2.8 ii - this starts at 35mm, you can not take 5 people group picture with this.
24-70 F4 - same as above, even slower aperture.
70-200 F4 - good but slow aperture still
70-200 F2.8 - expensive
your only choice is wide angle are
16-35 F2.8 but lens like this photos looks really good at full frame.
17-55 - not L lens, not EF lens.
I will choose 6D anytime.
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Good thing that you have invested in 6D and probably to a bunch of L glass you don't use or are unable to use (judging by how obsessed you are with them).eninja said:
Truth is, with 6D you simply can't do what 7DII does, actually I went with 70D instead of 6D because I needed those extra AF points and much faster shooting speed. I had 550D so I knew single center point and 6D's 4,5fps wouldn't cut it. Difference here is, that 6D just can't get those pics of fast moving subjects because either it's AF is too crippled (subject is too fast to be kept in focus with single AF point, 7DII wins here like a million to zero) and/or the fps rate is too slow, you'll simply miss that best moment but will get some good quality meh photos instead. But crop cams can do low light shooting at ISO6400, quality isn't the same but you can get those shots and they can look good especially to people that know pretty much nothing about cameras.
TL;DR: 6D gets you shots only on static subjects and low light. 7DII gets you same as 6D but in lo light the quality is worse, it also gives you ability to shoot any action.
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eninja said:
Ok, couple points.
1. I think the 10-22mm efs isn't on the list there, and it is a very sweet lens:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-10-22mm-f-3.5-4.5-USM-Lens-Review.aspx
2. I regularly use 6400 ISO on my 7DII - at night, at 1/400 - 1/800 to stop action on the dirt track under the crappiest lighting conditions (different lighting temperature lights - mixed as they go around the track) at 70mph or so.
Usually I'm up in the 10,000-12,800 range.
below is SOOC, and then a crop in of the same picture.
I'm not even good at PP for noise, this is some tweaking in LR, that's it.
PLUS the anti flicker feature is totally worth it under this lighting condition.. I need to change color temp, I can, it is the whole frame. not 1/2 and 1/2 with some weird gradient.
Is the 6D better at high iso? probably. Is it marginal? yes, it is. You must know how to expose this sensor properly, but when you do, it gives a FF a run for its money.
Please explain why this isn't acceptable for iso 6400.
70-200 f2.8 non is lens was used. Not expensive, less than $900 used.
6D is a great camera - and I thought long and hard before I made my choice, it was certainly in the running. But for what I do, the 7DII was the easy choice. And it exceeded my expectations.
6D is not the hands down winner between the two like you think it is. It is a right tool for the right job sort of thing, and there is overlap where they will both do equally as well.
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ksgal said:
Yes, anti flicker is a good feature for electrical lighting at higher shutter speed.
If you need this feature you choose 7dii.
Ok, iso 6400 of 7dii maybe better to you. But 6D is a lot lot better.
6D is a good all around camera than 7Dii.
If you can compensate the lack of multiple AF point with a bit of skills.
Lens wise, circumstance and cost wise, 6D is better.
Let say I got a friend with me, I want to take a bit of medium portrait.
Using 70-200 F2.8 non IS
For crop sensor, you need to step back maybe 7 meters away or so. And then your F2.8 becomes F4 or so depth of field equivalent.
With full frame, you get better ISO, you can shoot at 70mm focal length, you have F2.8 depth of field, if you don't care depth of field, you can choose 70-200 F4L IS, or even 70-300 L lens on the similar price.
And yes, for a given time, 7dii can shoot twice as much photo as the 6D.
if you need 10 photos per sec, then take 7Dii. Else you just waste your money on something that you really don't not need.
With your car photos. Set aside the flicker issues. 6D can output better quality photos.
In this scenario you paid 7dii for the anti flickr issues. If you shoot this scene only once a year. For me its not worth it.
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If you are going to shoot at high ISO then the 6D is superior to the 7D II.
I think the 7D II is poor at ISO 6400.
The 7D II is great outdoor in good light as an action camera. Its good value for money as that.
I don't think its good value for money if you only use it as a general camera. A 70D is better value for that.
The 6D is a great landscape camera. It has a very good sensor. I've never took video with one.
I prefer video from the 5D III that the 7DII.
I have had rolling shutter issues or wobble more easily with a 7DII.
On the other hand focusing is smoother on the 7DII.
I think the 7D II is poor at ISO 6400.
The 7D II is great outdoor in good light as an action camera. Its good value for money as that.
I don't think its good value for money if you only use it as a general camera. A 70D is better value for that.
The 6D is a great landscape camera. It has a very good sensor. I've never took video with one.
I prefer video from the 5D III that the 7DII.
I have had rolling shutter issues or wobble more easily with a 7DII.
On the other hand focusing is smoother on the 7DII.
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